thebandit27 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The fans don't want it, the owner doesn't want it, the tax payers don't want it, the state doesn't want it. I've never heard a free agent say they don't want to play somewhere because they have an old stadium. Apparently the only people that want a new stadium are the other owners. Nothing they can do about it and from the article it wasn't even brought up. Vic is really reaching I'm excited for a new stadium as a fan. I've been to other venues, even ones as old as Heinz Field (which opened 15 years ago), and it's just a better place to watch a game. The views are better, the seats are nicer, it's cleaner, more polished, the amenities are noticeable, etc. And while FAs may not make a decision based on the stadium amenities, you can bet your bank account they make them based on the facilities, and a new stadium will come with an upgraded facility for certain.
dpberr Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Interesting question in regards to stadiums amidst changing demographics in the US: Boomers and Generations X and Y go to games. Will Millennials and future generations? Or will they just stay home and watch it on television? Is there a new type of venue to build instead of a stadium? Are we assuming fans will attend games at the same clip and with the same desire as previous generations? Chart #4 caught my eye. http://www.sbrnet.com/Blog/July-2015/The-Millennials.aspx
NorthBuffaloKid Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I hope that the Pegulas drag their heels and conduct a few "studies". An increase in ticket prices would kill the franchise in the long run.
thebandit27 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I hope that the Pegulas drag their heels and conduct a few "studies". An increase in ticket prices would kill the franchise in the long run. How so?
Kirby Jackson Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I hope that the Pegulas drag their heels and conduct a few "studies". An increase in ticket prices would kill the franchise in the long run. I actually think the exact opposite. If the cap keeps going up and the Bills revenues do not that leaves them at a competitive disadvantage.
nucci Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The fans don't want it, the owner doesn't want it, the tax payers don't want it, the state doesn't want it. I've never heard a free agent say they don't want to play somewhere because they have an old stadium. Apparently the only people that want a new stadium are the other owners. Nothing they can do about it and from the article it wasn't even brought up. Vic is really reaching Really? You don't think so? I actually think the exact opposite. If the cap keeps going up and the Bills revenues do not that leaves them at a competitive disadvantage. and it will with Ram's new stadium and most likely new ones for Raiders and Chargers
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 I don't see it as bills fans don't have the money for tickets, etc at a new stadium. I think it's just how they choose to spend the money they do have. And I think many would choose to spend it on the Bills, as a general observation. Especially if they are good. Look how many bills fans travel to other stadiums to see road games. That is not cheap! Also I see so many spending money to go to Sabres games and I know they aren't as pricey but there are a lot more games. This is 8 per year. I think plenty of fans would budget money toward the experience. Again, it's all about your passion. Some people pour money into their house, some into travel, some into cars, some into kids sports/dance... I just see it as a choice. Sure some folks simply can't afford it but I look at it as those people probably weren't going to the games at the Ralph either. Jmo
Kirby Jackson Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Really? You don't think so? and it will with Ram's new stadium and most likely new ones for Raiders and Chargers Great point, and you can add the new one in Minnesota to that as well. We need to stop thinking in terms of a "where we like to watch a football game" and start thinking in terms of a billion dollar business. That is the reality of the situation.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I actually think the exact opposite. If the cap keeps going up and the Bills revenues do not that leaves them at a competitive disadvantage. A point people seem to also miss. Bills current estimated operating income for 2015 was $44.2m , according to Forbes, before taxes. It won't take too much more raising of the cap to eat into that and Pegula is still trying to pay back his debt from buying the Bills. Compare that to the Giants who's operating income is $105.2m.
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 A point people seem to also miss. Bills current estimated operating income for 2015 was $44.2m , according to Forbes, before taxes. It won't take too much more raising of the cap to eat into that and Pegula is still trying to pay back his debt from buying the Bills. Compare that to the Giants who's operating income is $105.2m. i thought that Pegs bought the Bills outright in cash
BuffaloBill Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 i thought that Pegs bought the Bills outright in cash The other miss is that the cap only goes up if revenue goes up.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 i thought that Pegs bought the Bills outright in cash Personal debt, like he just spent $1.4b, I'm sure he'd like to make some of that back. Not like he took out a loan or something.
Dr. Who Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I suppose on balance a new stadium is probably needed. My sensibility is not at all populist, but when I read this kind of innuendo and suggestion from NFL fat cats, I do sorta want to tell them to shove it.
MarkAF43 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as some of you, but here are my two cents. I love the Ralph, however the older I get I wouldn't be opposed to pricing out some of the people only there to see how drunk and stupid they can get. For those who think fans will be priced out, yeah some will, however if the Bills get creative with payment options, it helps ease the burden. For example, this year my two seats are roughly $1300. They gave a payment plan option to pay $136 down or something and every month $130 or so comes out of my account through October. That works for me as I could easily afford the money up front, my wife prefers spending it monthly ( no interest so no big deal, not paying any extra). Also, like someone said before, if your seat now costs $600 for a season and jumps to $1000 you will lose some. However getting creative with payments and the like will keep many coming back as the sticker shock won't automatically cause them to give up their seats.
nucci Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The other miss is that the cap only goes up if revenue goes up. Revenue goes up when teams start playing in new stadiums
Wayne Cubed Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The other miss is that the cap only goes up if revenue goes up. League revenue, not team revenue. Teams still have to generate their own revenue to cover costs, it's not all covered under shared revenue.
hondo in seattle Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) There is no doubt the Ralph is ready to be retired. A new stadium, half funded by the public by canalside would complete one of the greatest rebuilds a city has ever seen. This current generation will put Buffalo back on the map, after years of neglect by the previous. Property values are rising. Good jobs are available. A great time to invest in this great city of Buffalo. Imo Chicago - a much wealthier city - still houses the Bears in Soldier Field, built in 1924. The Ralph is a much younger, better conceived stadium. We can get many more years out of it. I don't even live in Buffalo anymore but I'd hate to see what a new stadium would do to ticket prices. Blue collar Bills fans would largely be priced out. Sure, a beautiful new billion dollar stadium would be a great addition to WNY. But who's going to pay for it? And what will the unintended consequences be? Edited March 24, 2016 by hondo in seattle
Acantha Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The Bill's need to get moving on winning; higher priced tickets will sell if the team is winning. If they try to make this change before they can turn the team around, they will fall flat on their face. I don't even live in Buffalo anymore but I'd hate to see what a new stadium would do to ticket prices. Blue collar Bills fans would largely be priced out. Sure, a beautiful new billion dollar stadium would be a great addition to WNY. But who's going to pay for it? And what will the unintended consequences be? I don't get to games very often, but from what I've seen the past few times that I've been there, many of those "blue collar" fans can stay home for all I care. IMO, if you can afford to pay for tickets to go to a game but are more than willing to be so drunk you can't even tell what's going on, there's something wrong.
dubs Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Chicago - a much wealthier city - still houses the Bears in Soldier Field, built in 1924. Chicago renovated Soldier Field in 2003 to the tune of $690 million dollars. It's also in a location, in a city, that can host events for over 200 days a year. It's really an unfair comparison to the Ralph on many fronts. My two cents is that I am skeptical that the stadium would generate any economic benefit to the downtown area. It would probably generate some pride and enthusiasm to the downtown area, which is very important yet hard to quantify. From a gameday experience, I think it would be a tremendous upgrade to have a new, family friendly stadium in a city setting. I think it could potentially open up the market of potential ticket holders to a broad group of people that don't typically go to games. More families, more Buffalo ex-pats wanting to do weekends back home, more higher income earners who want to spend a night in the city or two, potentially more Canadians. I also think it could draw in some other events for Buffalo.
billykaykay Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Go watch the Bills on the road and you will find it hard to argue the Ralph is not one of the three worst. Is the fan support top ten or even top 5 yes it is. Is the market better than Green Bay? Is it a joke Miami and Jax can not sell out their home openers? Yes this is all true. But it doesn't change the fact that the Ralph is old and not fan friendly in any way. Bathrooms, concourses, food, and beverage options are all awful. Fan behavior is terrible. Better than a couple years ago yes- but not close to the newer stadiums. Build a dome and cut the seats to 62,000. Raise the ticket price 30% and then it will be fan and corporate friendly. The drunken mobs will not be able to afford it and the families with money to spend will sign up in droves. I haven't been to the new Ralph yet. I did go to a Miami game a couple of years ago. Trust me - the Miami stadium stinks compared to the pre-renovated Ralph.
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