Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 I never suggested they did not have expenses against that revenue. However, now that you bring the subject up, player total salaries are capped by a CBA that the league agreed to, huge public funding support goes into stadiums and stadium operations and compared to many businesses there are few people needed to generate the revenue and their product is being taken global. The point is that the league us run by uber wealthy people who are getting wealthier for their involvement in it. Nothing wrong with that from a capitalism perspective. However, the league is hardly capitalistic. They have a specific anti-trust exemption so they are free from competition and they get huge public subsidies in the form of stadiums and stadium operations support. Let the owners make their money but there should also be some recognition of the public trust between cities (regions), fans and the teams. The Bills are not simply a business in WNY. They are a big part of the community and culture. Having an NFL team is not a right nor is holding cities hostage due to the threat of departure a right. There is no law that prevents other football leagues from competing with the NFL. In fact, isn't there yet another league trying to launch now? As for "huge subsidies"--10 billion in tax subsidies alone flowed to private business in NYS in the past 9 years. Most of that money is wasted as the companies rarely deliver on what they are getting money for (more jobs). And why pick out NFL owners? When was the last NBA arena built with at least 80% private funding? Not in the last 15 years, at least. In the MLB, AT&T Park was the first privately funded baseball stadium since Dodgers Stadium....in 1962! People complain about public financing, then they complain about PSLs to aid private financing. Crazy. Right, because no other NFL stadiums are used for anything other than NFL football. I swear, some people refuse to think. Well, let's see...off the top of my head, I can come up with: Concerts Conventions Other athletic events like track, soccer, college football VIP tours Motorcross Pro Wrestling Honestly, is this that wild a concept to you? Honestly, look up the revenue generated by these events. Look at the bookings for these stadiums.
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 The Bill's need to get moving on winning; higher priced tickets will sell if the team is winning. If they try to make this change before they can turn the team around, they will fall flat on their face. I don't get to games very often, but from what I've seen the past few times that I've been there, many of those "blue collar" fans can stay home for all I care. IMO, if you can afford to pay for tickets to go to a game but are more than willing to be so drunk you can't even tell what's going on, there's something wrong. Sorry if some are offended by the above, but it is just simply a great point. Well said, Acantha. Tangential question though: if they build a stadium that is less suited for tailgating will that help or hurt the drunken state of same fans at the stadium? In other words, will they drink like fish while they are there, or just as bad, will the drive to the stadium drunk?
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Right, because no other NFL stadiums are used for anything other than NFL football. I swear, some people refuse to think. Well, let's see...off the top of my head, I can come up with: Concerts Conventions Other athletic events like track, soccer, college football VIP tours Motorcross Pro Wrestling Honestly, is this that wild a concept to you? So ruin the site-lines with a track and soccer field, good call. Wrestling does just fine in the FNC What college football?
Hammered a Lot Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Right, because no other NFL stadiums are used for anything other than NFL football. I swear, some people refuse to think. Well, let's see...off the top of my head, I can come up with: Concerts Conventions Other athletic events like track, soccer, college football VIP tours Motorcross Pro Wrestling Honestly, is this that wild a concept to you? Concerts FNC Conventions market saturated How's UB pulling in fans for track? Soccer growing so I could see that VIP tours anytime Motorcross when the last time in Buffalo No market Wrestling FNC so build a dome for the 2 footballs!
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 There is no law that prevents other football leagues from competing with the NFL. In fact, isn't there yet another league trying to launch now? As for "huge subsidies"--10 billion in tax subsidies alone flowed to private business in NYS in the past 9 years. Most of that money is wasted as the companies rarely deliver on what they are getting money for (more jobs). And why pick out NFL owners? When was the last NBA arena built with at least 80% private funding? Not in the last 15 years, at least. In the MLB, AT&T Park was the first privately funded baseball stadium since Dodgers Stadium....in 1962! People complain about public financing, then they complain about PSLs to aid private financing. Crazy. Honestly, look up the revenue generated by these events. Look at the bookings for these stadiums. This clip of Agnes Skinner sums it up:
thebandit27 Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Concerts FNC Conventions market saturated How's UB pulling in fans for track? Soccer growing so I could see that VIP tours anytime Motorcross when the last time in Buffalo No market Wrestling FNC so build a dome for the 2 footballs! How exactly is the market for concerts saturated? Comparing a downtown stadium to UB is kind of misguided, but yes, it can certainly be used for track events. Why not Olympic or Junior Olympic trials etc.? Motorcross is actually pretty popular. Events happen in nearby locations like Batavia and Holland pretty regularly. As to wrestling, yes, they could host an event. Folks need to get used to the idea that the new stadium will have a retractable dome for the exact reason of hosting events year-round. And, you don't have to like it. So ruin the site-lines with a track and soccer field, good call. Wrestling does just fine in the FNC What college football? Um, other NFL venues host soccer games without ruining site lines at all--I don't really see a salient point here. Am I mistaken, or did Yankee Stadium start hosting a college bowl game recently? I fail to understand why there's such pushback on maximizing the revenue from added events
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 How exactly is the market for concerts saturated? Comparing a downtown stadium to UB is kind of misguided, but yes, it can certainly be used for track events. Why not Olympic or Junior Olympic trials etc.? Motorcross is actually pretty popular. Events happen in nearby locations like Batavia and Holland pretty regularly. As to wrestling, yes, they could host an event. Folks need to get used to the idea that the new stadium will have a retractable dome for the exact reason of hosting events year-round. And, you don't have to like it. Um, other NFL venues host soccer games without ruining site lines at all--I don't really see a salient point here. Am I mistaken, or did Yankee Stadium start hosting a college bowl game recently? I fail to understand why there's such pushback on maximizing the revenue from added events You know what I don't understand is why people would be against it? WNYers want so desperately to be considered "a big league city" yet push back on "big league amenities." You would think that the inferiority complex would have everyone wanting the absolute best to justify their belonging. We are very sensitive to being the best fans, the best wings, the best place to raise a family. We defend the weather, the team, and the city at every turn. Yet when it comes to upgrading one of the oldest stadiums we vehemently reject it. It's odd
thebandit27 Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 You know what I don't understand is why people would be against it? WNYers want so desperately to be considered "a big league city" yet push back on "big league amenities." You would think that the inferiority complex would have everyone wanting the absolute best to justify their belonging. We are very sensitive to being the best fans, the best wings, the best place to raise a family. We defend the weather, the team, and the city at every turn. Yet when it comes to upgrading one of the oldest stadiums we vehemently reject it. It's odd Basically
Doc Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 You know what I don't understand is why people would be against it? WNYers want so desperately to be considered "a big league city" yet push back on "big league amenities." You would think that the inferiority complex would have everyone wanting the absolute best to justify their belonging. We are very sensitive to being the best fans, the best wings, the best place to raise a family. We defend the weather, the team, and the city at every turn. Yet when it comes to upgrading one of the oldest stadiums we vehemently reject it. It's odd I'm against it because the old stadium is fine and allows for cheaper ticket prices (I don't go to games so it doesn't affect me, but it affects those who do). A new stadium will force higher prices that will price a lot of fans out.
nucci Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 You know what I don't understand is why people would be against it? WNYers want so desperately to be considered "a big league city" yet push back on "big league amenities." You would think that the inferiority complex would have everyone wanting the absolute best to justify their belonging. We are very sensitive to being the best fans, the best wings, the best place to raise a family. We defend the weather, the team, and the city at every turn. Yet when it comes to upgrading one of the oldest stadiums we vehemently reject it. It's odd Many people can't handle change. They would prefer things always stay the same....no one wants to change their game day experience....different route to stadium...parking....seating....I would think a new state of art stadium would be nice.... I'm against it because the old stadium is fine and allows for cheaper ticket prices (I don't go to games so it doesn't affect me, but it affects those who do). A new stadium will force higher prices that will price a lot of fans out. but may also bring in new fans
Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 This clip of Agnes Skinner sums it up: That sums it up well. People here love football less than they like complaining about "the NFL", while ignoring the fact that it is no different than the NBA and MLB. I'm against it because the old stadium is fine and allows for cheaper ticket prices (I don't go to games so it doesn't affect me, but it affects those who do). A new stadium will force higher prices that will price a lot of fans out. Ticket prices go up every year, yet seasons are at an all time high...
nucci Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Ticket prices go up every year, yet seasons are at an all time high... and Sabres just raised theirs again
dwight in philly Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Right, because no other NFL stadiums are used for anything other than NFL football. I swear, some people refuse to think. Well, let's see...off the top of my head, I can come up with: Concerts Conventions Other athletic events like track, soccer, college football VIP tours Motorcross Pro Wrestling Honestly, is this that wild a concept to you? nobody cares about soccer, concerts and wrestling work at the FNC, what college football? one game from syracuse every 5 years? . the thing will lie dormant all in the name of trying to be "big time".. Edited March 25, 2016 by dwight in philly
MarkAF43 Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 nobody cares about soccer, concerts and wrestling work at the FNC, what college football? one game from syracuse every 5 years? . the thing will lie dormant all in the name of trying to be "big time".. You have proof to back up that no one cares about soccer? Also, what's better for big time concerts? FNC which can hold roughly 18K or a downtown stadium that can hold 50-60K? Same goes for wrestling as well. Someone else mentioned Motocross, etc, there is plenty that it could be used for.
Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) People say this all the time: "it will be a multi-use facility", yet look at the bookings at most stadiums around the league and they are mostly filled with.....weddings. That and the occasional "convention"--which often isn't big enough to actually use the field surface...they use conference space instead. Also, every stadium in the country is parked near an already exiting municipal convention center which is also starving for bookings. "Motocross"? How many times a year will that be filling the stadium? How many stadium concert tour are on the road right now? When does WWE play in a stadium? Exactly 1 and it's WrestleMania in JerryDome. Edited March 25, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Jauronimo Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 People say this all the time: "it will be a multi-use facility", yet look at the bookings at most stadiums around the league and they are mostly filled with.....weddings. That and the occasional "convention"--which often isn't big enough to actually use the field surface...they use conference space instead. Also, every stadium in the country is parked near an already exiting municipal convention center which is also starving for bookings. So what you're saying is: 1. 10 home games a year doesn't generate sufficient revenue to recover the costs of a new stadium. 2. The other events hosted at these state of the art multi-purpose all year facilities generate negligible revenue. 3. The economic effects of hosting even major events like the Super Bowl and Final 4 (not that Buffalo would ever host these) are brief and largely go to major corporations like hotels. 4. The costs of building a new stadium will never be offset by revenue or the other economic benefits to the area. 5. The state already wastes billions of public money. 6. Lets build a new multi-purpose state of the art stadium. Did I get that right?
dwight in philly Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 You have proof to back up that no one cares about soccer? Also, what's better for big time concerts? FNC which can hold roughly 18K or a downtown stadium that can hold 50-60K? Same goes for wrestling as well. Someone else mentioned Motocross, etc, there is plenty that it could be used for. no proof obviously, that no one cares about soccer, just an astute opinion.
Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) So what you're saying is: 1. 10 home games a year doesn't generate sufficient revenue to recover the costs of a new stadium. 2. The other events hosted at these state of the art multi-purpose all year facilities generate negligible revenue. 3. The economic effects of hosting even major events like the Super Bowl and Final 4 (not that Buffalo would ever host these) are brief and largely go to major corporations like hotels. 4. The costs of building a new stadium will never be offset by revenue or the other economic benefits to the area. 5. The state already wastes billions of public money. 6. Lets build a new multi-purpose state of the art stadium. Did I get that right? Yes! OK, actually #2, #3, #4 and #5 are true. #1 is technically true, but the cost of the stadium is mainly covered by the massive pool of shared revenue. Edited March 25, 2016 by Mr. WEO
thebandit27 Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 People say this all the time: "it will be a multi-use facility", yet look at the bookings at most stadiums around the league and they are mostly filled with.....weddings. That and the occasional "convention"--which often isn't big enough to actually use the field surface...they use conference space instead. Also, every stadium in the country is parked near an already exiting municipal convention center which is also starving for bookings. "Motocross"? How many times a year will that be filling the stadium? How many stadium concert tour are on the road right now? When does WWE play in a stadium? Exactly 1 and it's WrestleMania in JerryDome. I realize that it's just one example (and admittedly it's the only one that I looked up), but LucasOil is booked with 21 non-football events from now until the end of the year. http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/upcoming-events.aspx Am I to believe that the Bills wouldn't want to do something similar?
Jauronimo Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Yes! I agree. We do need kinda need a new stadium. But not because of other owners desire for more revenue, or to stay competitive, or because it will be an economic boon to the region, but because the Ralph is old and all structures have a useful life.
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