nucci Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 bad QBs dont get voted into the pro bowl Tyrod was like the 8th fill-in choice....I'm not criticizing Taylor...I like him and want him re-signed but the Pro Bowl does NOT carry the clout it used to. If Taylor was a legit Pro Bowl QB why are there so many questions about him?
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I'm not chasing you around on this after this post.... You made a statement, I said it's not true and showed why with reasonable example You changed the argument completely, I say teams do what your saying they don't and give reasonable reasons why they would You ask for an example and I mention one of many contracts around the league that have been done in that format (happens to be a widely discussed one here so it's an easy reference people are familiar with) and now because of that specific situation not working out for the team the entire premise is out the window? Go with Andy dalton? Gronks was extended with 2 years left and just added a signing bonus at extension but kept the pay for the remaining years... We could give TT a moderate signing bonus this year and extend the deal with a raise built in next year if we wanted. Even cap poor teams can do this for him if they want. Dalton's first year cap hit was $9M and he's making $16M/year. Gronk makes slightly over half a year what Dalton makes. But okay, teams could theoretically do a contract like Kaep's. Do you think that with how it worked out, that teams and/or TT would want to do a deal like that, seeing as how that one worked out?
Saxum Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Five QBs turned down the Pro Bowl and six played. If you want to make it a worst case scenario, that makes Tayor the #11 QB in the NFL. That's still top third. Second, the NFL has already set the market for QB's who only played a handful of games. (See: Osweiller, Brock.) So you can complain all you want that someone who hasn't proved his value is demanding too much money, but the real world NFL QB market says otherwise. It's no different than someone selling a house. In a tight market, lesser houses go for more. There was a house on my street which was sold for $200K more than other houses of same model. Did all of the houses jump up same amount? A couple real estate agents tried that and they lost contracts when they did not sell and next agent who got listing priced it fair market not speculator in price. The original house was sold again when they buyer was moved for work after 2 years and it sold less than what he paid for; heard from neighbor he laughed about it for company promised to make up difference so he did not care about over paying first time.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 So you are saying being voted to the Pro Bowl is meaningless? Teddy Bridgewater "made" the pro bowl. He threw 14 tds and 9 ints in 16 games. The pro bowl becomes more meaningless every year unless you are an agent trying to squeeze a team.
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 good point... Root for an Osweiler implosion (if you weren't already just because he plays for an afc contender). I was going to post the same thing
Saxum Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 And the 49'ers are trying to get rid of him but can't, because of his contract. No they could have but are convinced someone will pay for privilege of having him but most teams seem to see his contract being overpriced despite it being a year-to-year contract.
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I don't think BO has any bearing on the Bills. TT is under contract and won't be getting any more money unless/until he proves it. If BO implodes, it will be a cautionary tale for other teams.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Jason Peters and the late Eugene Parker might have a different take on the finality of contracts. Team game, huh? Tell that to people who blame TT for not being clutch while saying nothing about a defense that let teams score at will at times. I hated everything about Rex's defense but holy hyperbole. They sucked compared to last year but they were an average to slightly below average this year. A defense that allows a team to score at will doesn't win a game where their qb throws for 100 yards. You're reaching.
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I'm not chasing you around on this after this post.... You made a statement, I said it's not true and showed why with reasonable example You changed the argument completely, I say teams do what your saying they don't and give reasonable reasons why they would You ask for an example and I mention one of many contracts around the league that have been done in that format (happens to be a widely discussed one here so it's an easy reference people are familiar with) and now because of that specific situation not working out for the team the entire premise is out the window? Go with Andy dalton? Gronk was extended with 2 years left and just added a signing bonus at extension but kept the pay for the remaining years... We could give TT a moderate signing bonus this year and extend the deal with a raise built in next year if we wanted. Even cap poor teams can do this for him if they want. I must admit NS i had no idea this was something do able ! Thanks for the enlightenment, seriously.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 If a 1st round pick QB had Taylor's season we would be falling all over ourselves declaring him the franchise savior. So the big knock against TT is he wasn't clutch enough in a few games? First year starter couldn't play like Joe Montana in his prime? No unreasonable expectations here. Rational? See my above comment? We are parsing TT's season to avoid praising him because we convinced ourselves a 6th round, 4 year backup can't be any good. At the same time we get a boner for every 1st round washout or unproven college QB. That is the antithesis of rational. He's not a 1st round pick and there were valid reasons for it. He has flaws in his game that prevent them. Most teams prefer taller, pocket passer which Tsylor is not. He wasn't very accurate in college and actually completing passes better as a pro. If that is a product of a gameplan or Taylor improving remains to be seen. Furthermore, comparing a rookie to a guy entering his 4th year in the NFL is foolish. Even though he didn't play much, he learned under NFL OC (his former one just won a SB) and sat behind a SB winning qb. His experience is completely different than a guy fresh out of college. In fact, you can argue that Taylor has been developed better than most 1st round Qbs.
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) No they could have but are convinced someone will pay for privilege of having him but most teams seem to see his contract being overpriced despite it being a year-to-year contract. If they trade him, they'd have a dead cap hit of $19M. Of course, they could split it between this year and next. If they cut him at the end of 2016, he's just a $5M cap hit. And after looking at that contract, I can't see any way in hell that TT/his agent accept that. I'd actually love it if they offered him that and he accepted because it appears they've paid him just $36M over the past 3 years. Which makes me think they did and he refused. Edited April 9, 2016 by Doc
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I don't think BO has any bearing on the Bills. TT is under contract and won't be getting any more money unless/until he proves it. If BO implodes, it will be a cautionary tale for other teams. It was a desperate move. If it pays off, good for them. But there is a big chance they screwed up and it could hurt them for years. You shouldn't justify your team building because of what a very average at best organization does.
thebandit27 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Pro Bowls are meant to salute the best players in the just-completed season. Vince Young was not a bad QB when he was named twice. He is now. fixed. So TT had a better than average season and he got an atta boy for it. No, it's not "fixed", it's now officially "misrepresented" Again
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Vince Young was one of the worst Pro Bowl QB's ever. He made it after the 2006 and 2009 seasons. Take a look at his stats from those years: http://www.nfl.com/player/vinceyoung/2506875/profile
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I must admit NS i had no idea this was something do able ! Thanks for the enlightenment, seriously. No prob! Lots of ways to push around money to do what you want. Comes with pros and cons. If we commit and he flops- it'll hurt some. If he wins the super bowl ala flacco it'll be a bargain deal (though it seems with his agent we may get right back here again quick if he over performs). If you are TT though maybe you take a little good faith money this year with a reasonable extension tacked on in exchange. (and yes to doc, teams will continue to sign contracts with players even though some don't work out perfect- cks format has given the 9ers more flexibility not less so i have no idea what he's still harping on with it)
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 No prob! Lots of ways to push around money to do what you want. Comes with pros and cons. If we commit and he flops- it'll hurt some. If he wins the super bowl ala flacco it'll be a bargain deal (though it seems with his agent we may get right back here again quick if he over performs). If you are TT though maybe you take a little good faith money this year with a reasonable extension tacked on in exchange. (and yes to doc, teams will continue to sign contracts with players even though some don't work out perfect- cks format has given the 9ers more flexibility not less so i have no idea what he's still harping on with it) If he over performs. pay him. not until next season though. I just think it is too soon. and i still have the Fitz hangover
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Tyrod was like the 8th fill-in choice....I'm not criticizing Taylor...I like him and want him re-signed but the Pro Bowl does NOT carry the clout it used to. If Taylor was a legit Pro Bowl QB why are there so many questions about him? MY point is that if Tyrod sucked he wouldnt have been considered? As to why there are questions? - 5th round pick - 2nd string QB behind a franchise starter for years - For some reason athletic QBs dont seem to be regarded as true QBs This whole pro blow thing seems to be a real sticking point on both sides I will concede that it doesnt mean that much if people would concede that QBs that play poorly are not considered
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 If he over performs. pay him. not until next season though. I just think it is too soon. and i still have the Fitz hangover I definitely agree on waiting...... but we COULD do something this year if we wanted and it wouldn't be crazy.
GaryPinC Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I'd honestly just like to see them make the pro bowl a real award but a fictitious game. Who really cares to watch it anyways? No actual game so there's only a limited number of probowlers who truly deserve it and any contract bonuses that come with it. It's becoming a ridiculous situation IMO.
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 MY point is that if Tyrod sucked he wouldnt have been considered? As to why there are questions? - 5th round pick - 2nd string QB behind a franchise starter for years - For some reason athletic QBs dont seem to be regarded as true QBs This whole pro blow thing seems to be a real sticking point on both sides I will concede that it doesnt mean that much if people would concede that QBs that play poorly are not considered I think it goes back to the earlier convo about why a guy can show well on the stat line one season but not the next. A guy can be just ok at his craft but get a boom year. By wide wide majority guys making the pro bowl are having good years but there are spot exceptions, and a good year doesn't mean it'll be followed by anything of that level on a larger scale. We are in a good spot. Having a good young player under a favorable contract is a nice thing. I'd honestly just like to see them make the pro bowl a real award but a fictitious game. Who really cares to watch it anyways? No actual game so there's only a limited number of probowlers who truly deserve it and any contract bonuses that come with it. It's becoming a ridiculous situation IMO. So just look at all pro awards
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