26CornerBlitz Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Explain why. I agree it was stupid. But that's the market. And whether a QB is a free agent or not, deals like that make one feel underpaid. Seriously? Pro Bowl voting? You honestly need an explanation?
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Seriously? Pro Bowl voting? You honestly need an explanation? From Wikipedia: Currently, players are voted into the Pro Bowl by the coaches, the players themselves, and the fans. Each group's ballots count for one third of the votes. The fans vote online at the NFL's official website. There are also replacements that go to the game should any selected player be unable to play due to injuries. Prior to 1995, only the coaches and the players made Pro Bowl selections. In order to be considered a Pro Bowler for a given year, a player must either have been one of the initial players selected to the team, or a player who accepts an invitation to the Pro Bowl as an alternate; invited alternates who decline to attend are not considered Pro Bowlers. Being a Pro Bowler is considered to be a mark of honor, and players who are accepted into the Pro Bowl are considered to be elite. Players whose teams advanced to the Super Bowl do not play in the Pro Bowl, and they are replaced by alternate players. So making the Pro Bowl is 1/3 fan votes and 2/3 votes by players and coaches. Alternates are invited (not specified by whom.) So if I read you correctly, you are saying Taylor only made the Pro Bowl because "stupid fans" voted for him. Obviously that isn't the case. Edited April 9, 2016 by PromoTheRobot
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Seriously? Pro Bowl voting? You honestly need an explanation? bad QBs dont get voted into the pro bowl
26CornerBlitz Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) bad QBs dont get voted into the pro bowl Who said that they do? But Pro Bowl balloting is not a true measure of the very best in the game with fan balloting and players voting. Edited April 9, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I don't think the Bills (especially the Bills since they have him under contract for another year at just $3M) or any other team would want to do a contract like that, especially to appease a loud mouth agent. And I also don't think any team looking for a QB will be as dumb as the Texans to pay a guy $18M/year with less than a year's worth of starting experience. Hell the Broncos want to pay Kaep just $7M/year for the next 2 years and he's played in a SB. Well, that's not remotely close to the issue I was addressing. You said none of the teams could afford to sign him. They could, if they wanted. There are some incentives to going with it early (possibly a lower average pay if he pans out, essentially just spreading some of the hit over this year too depending on structure, keeps the tag available for someone else next year if needed etc.... I'm pro-wait and see but wouldn't be infuriated if we kicked him a few bucks this year and tagged on a big year next guaranteed and then a kaepernick style yearly team option behind. bad QBs dont get voted into the pro bowl Did you know we recently cut a 2 time probowler in Vince young? Now, I don't think that's Taylor's future but your argument isn't great to support your position.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Who said that they do? But Pro Bowl balloting is not a true measure of the very best in the game with fan balloting and players voting. So you are saying being voted to the Pro Bowl is meaningless?
thebandit27 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Explain why. I agree it was stupid. But that's the market. And whether a QB is a free agent or not, deals like that make one feel underpaid. That would be pretty subjective. Especially is you have a certain (non-racial...don't flip out) prejudice against a player. Meanwhile the Pro Bowl committee invited Tyrod Taylor so by whatever measure, they felt he was next in line. At some level, it would be subjective, yes. I think for the most part, however, a reasoned evaluation would be accepted by most folks
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 So you are saying being voted to the Pro Bowl is meaningless? It's a reward for a better than average season as a starter at your position, generally.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Well, that's not remotely close to the issue I was addressing. You said none of the teams could afford to sign him. They could, if they wanted. There are some incentives to going with it early (possibly a lower average pay if he pans out, essentially just spreading some of the hit over this year too depending on structure, keeps the tag available for someone else next year if needed etc.... I'm pro-wait and see but wouldn't be infuriated if we kicked him a few bucks this year and tagged on a big year next guaranteed and then a kaepernick style yearly team option behind. Did you know we recently cut a 2 time probowler in Vince young? Now, I don't think that's Taylor's future but your argument isn't great to support your position. Pro Bowls are meant to salute the best players in the just-completed season. Vince Young was not a bad QB when he was named twice. He is now. At some level, it would be subjective, yes. I think for the most part, however, a reasoned evaluation would be accepted by most like-minded folks fixed. It's a reward for a better than average season as a starter at your position, generally. So TT had a better than average season and he got an atta boy for it. Edited April 9, 2016 by PromoTheRobot
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Pro Bowls are meant to salute the best players in the just-completed season. Vince Young was not a bad QB when he was named twice. He is now. fixed. So TT had a better than average season and he got an atta boy for it. His first probowl came after 51% completions, 12 tds and 13 ints, 6.2 ypa and a 66 passer rating. He wasn't trusted by his coach to even call timeouts. The probowl is a decent benchmark but it's not some perfect glowing standard.
BarleyNY Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 bad QBs dont get voted into the pro bowl I'm pretty sure the a Bills could acquire some other Pro Bowl QBs that are still in the league, like: - Derek Anderson - Matt Schaub - Nick Foles - Matt Cassel - RG3 Seriously, if you and Promo don't have anything better than "He went to the Pro Bowl!" and "His feeling will be hurt!" then just give it up.
first_and_ten Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 As I have stated in another post, agent are slimy. The Bills have no room to give TT the kind of extension he wants and probably deserves. Next year the Bills will be in a much better cap situation. They are wise to take a wait and see approach with TT. He has to perform to earn a good deal and I believe he will do so. But this agent is wrong to attack the team and it's players. TT has an obligation to make it know to his agent that this kind of an approach is unacceptable. As a leader, he needs to step in and make it know to his agent that he does not want this style of negotiation.
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 I agree it was stupid. But that's the market. And whether a QB is a free agent or not, deals like that make one feel underpaid. If BO proves to be a bust, it won't be the market for very long. And if TT feels underpaid, that's too bad. Well, that's not remotely close to the issue I was addressing. You said none of the teams could afford to sign him. They could, if they wanted. There are some incentives to going with it early (possibly a lower average pay if he pans out, essentially just spreading some of the hit over this year too depending on structure, keeps the tag available for someone else next year if needed etc.... I'm pro-wait and see but wouldn't be infuriated if we kicked him a few bucks this year and tagged on a big year next guaranteed and then a kaepernick style yearly team option behind. Did you know we recently cut a 2 time probowler in Vince young? Now, I don't think that's Taylor's future but your argument isn't great to support your position. Can you show me a contract similar to what you're proposing?
YoloinOhio Posted April 9, 2016 Author Posted April 9, 2016 If BO proves to be a bust, it won't be the market for very long. And if TT feels underpaid, that's too bad. Can you show me a contract similar to what you're proposing? good point... Root for an Osweiler implosion (if you weren't already just because he plays for an afc contender).
BarleyNY Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Pro Bowls are meant to salute the best players in the just-completed season. Vince Young was not a bad QB when he was named twice. He is now. So TT had a better than average season and he got an atta boy for it. So you're saying that a QB who was rewarded for a good season might not be a good QB in subsequent seasons? Interesting thought because, you know, I'd hate to see the Bills give such a player a huge contract.
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 If BO proves to be a bust, it won't be the market for very long. And if TT feels underpaid, that's too bad. Can you show me a contract similar to what you're proposing? Lots of extensions with a year left add a little signing bonus and then give the fresh deal moving forward from the end of the original Colin kaepernicks base salary stayed under 1m with a 12m signing bonus added to the last year of his rookie deal and is pretty much year to year. So you're saying that a QB who was rewarded for a good season might not be a good QB in subsequent seasons? Interesting thought because, you know, I'd hate to see the Bills give such a player a huge contract. It's turning into a strange conversation all around. Which is a shame, because outside of like 4 people on the board the sentiment is pretty reasonable on the topic.
Doc Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Lots of extensions with a year left add a little signing bonus and then give the fresh deal moving forward from the end of the original Colin kaepernicks base salary stayed under 1m with a 12m signing bonus added to the last year of his rookie deal and is pretty much year to year. And the 49'ers are trying to get rid of him but can't, because of his contract.
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) And the 49'ers are trying to get rid of him but can't, because of his contract. I'm not chasing you around on this after this post.... You made a statement, I said it's not true and showed why with reasonable example You changed the argument completely, I say teams do what your saying they don't and give reasonable reasons why they would You ask for an example and I mention one of many contracts around the league that have been done in that format (happens to be a widely discussed one here so it's an easy reference people are familiar with) and now because of that specific situation not working out for the team the entire premise is out the window? Go with Andy dalton? Gronk was extended with 2 years left and just added a signing bonus at extension but kept the pay for the remaining years... We could give TT a moderate signing bonus this year and extend the deal with a raise built in next year if we wanted. Even cap poor teams can do this for him if they want. Edited April 9, 2016 by NoSaint
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Sure anything is. I could jump out of a 2nd story window and fly, but it's highly unlikely. LOLd
Saxum Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Five QBs turned down the Pro Bowl and six played. If you want to make it a worst case scenario, that makes Tayor the #11 QB in the NFL. That's still top third. Second, the NFL has already set the market for QB's who only played a handful of games. (See: Osweiller, Brock.) So you can complain all you want that someone who hasn't proved his value is demanding too much money, but the real world NFL QB market says otherwise. It's no different than someone selling a house. In a tight market, lesser houses go for more. No NFL has NOT set the market, one team over reached but that does not mean other teams are willing to pay as much; in fact if is a bust this year it is possible that Brock will be an example of why not overpay QB too soon.
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