No progress toward TT extension per Carucci; agent unhappy

[vincec]

Holding out would probably not be a bad idea.

 

I'd put TT's chances of making it through the season without a serious injury at 50-50, given his size and the amount he runs. That would obviously have a seriously negative impact his negotiating position.

 

Also, right now people are pouring their visions into him and see him as the next Steve Young. It will be hard for him to play so well that he exceeds or even meets people's unrealistic expectations.

Edited April 3, 2016 by vincec

[3rdand12]

No. All I'm doing is predicting how this relationship will decay. And it seems to be doing just that. Don't forget the Bills already had a player under contract who bellyached his way out of town.

Not a fair comparison really.

[papazoid]

i don't see TT holding out for 1 second.....he still has much to prove. he will give 100% when healthy.

 

what i do see is a slight adjustment to his "gamer" mentality of rushing back from injury.

 

one more year like last year and he will be a $20 mil man.

 

 

 

if whaley is smart (which I think he is) he will bite the bullet and slightly overpay for Glenn & Gilmore in long term deals, thereby clearing cap space to sign TT this year to a team friendly deal in exchange for big guaranteed money for TT.

Edited April 3, 2016 by papazoid

[PromoTheRobot]

He just seems so eager to say I told you so over any slightly negative "development" in this one. I'm not sure what to clarify on that.

No different than anyone else who is ostracized for an opinion but turns out to be right.

Not a fair comparison really.

Explain why. I see a player under contract who might feel he is underpaid. Exactly like a certain UDFA left tackle who many here feel the Bills erred in letting escape. Then there's a certain safety who developed a mysterious foot ailment after he signed his franchise tag tender. I'm just pointing out that while players may be under contract, they don't have to do what we want. The above are extreme examples, but they do happen.

Edited April 3, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Steve Billieve]

Holding out would probably not be a bad idea.

 

I'd put TT's chances of making it through the season without a serious injury at 50-50, given his size and the amount he runs. That would obviously have a seriously negative impact his negotiating position.

 

Also, right now people are pouring their visions into him and see him as the next Steve Young. It will be hard for him to play so well that he exceeds or even meets people's unrealistic expectations.

 

My guess is holding out after 1 good season would have a negative impact on his negotiating position going forward (with any team). Unless we're talking about something really ridiculous (not sure what you mean by serious) Taylor will get paid injury or not and will attract way more interest if he plays as well as last year than he would holding out and most likely not playing at all in 2016.

 

The Bills really can't pay him, any hold out on his part needs to be done with the expectation that he probably won't play or won't be getting his ideal contract. I don't know what negotiations were like between his agent and the Bills but my guess is the Bills tried to make him a reasonable offer and it wasn't attractive enough. What exactly would be Taylor's ideal outcome if he held out?

[NoSaint]

No different than anyone else who is ostracized for an opinion but turns out to be right.

 

As I said, incredibly eager for him to actually sit out

[3rdand12]

No different than anyone else who is ostracized for an opinion but turns out to be right.

Explain why. I see a player under contract who might feel he is underpaid. Exactly like a certain UDFA left tackle who many here feel the Bills erred in letting escape. Then there's a certain safety who developed a mysterious foot ailment after he signed his franchise tag tender. I'm just pointing out that while players may be under contract, they don't have to do what we want. The above are extreme examples, but they do happen.

Well i assume you are talking about Miss prissy foot Mario. A man who has shown he is not quite a leader of men much less a stable individual.

The engagement ring episode some have forgotten already. Woe is me, i should just die etc.

That guy was a proven performer. weird but proven.

Tyrod has yet to prove himself to the Bills the league, and possibly to himself. If last year was his ceiling ? well that won't cut it. Everyone but his agent knows that.

The man and his agent negotiated a contract to become a Bill. Are you suggesting he should not honor that contract?

Its not exactly like anything Promo.

 

I would hope whaley, as he has said in the press, will reward Taylor for the progress he shows this coming year.

 

Tyrod signed up for this deal, why would he have remorse if he is succeeding.

Mario is a pissant who is blown by the winds, immature, petulant and has no strong foundation to anchor to.

Tyrod is a much stronger Man imo and know what is right and good. and he knows he will prevail.

Edited April 3, 2016 by 3rdand12

[FireChan]

As I said, incredibly eager for him to actually sit out

It's a strange form of Battered Bills Fan Syndrome. Instead of thinking all our players suck, Promo thinks they're so good, they're gonna leave us for a new girlfriend.

[KD in CA]

I love this thread title. "Agent unhappy" I bet -- unhappy about working for peanuts for another year.

He just seems so eager to say I told you so over any slightly negative "development" in this one. I'm not sure what to clarify on that.

 

Par for the course for him.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well i assume you are talking about Miss prissy foot Mario. A man who has shown he is not quite a leader of men much less a stable individual.

The engagement ring episode some have forgotten already. Woe is me, i should just die etc.

That guy was a proven performer. weird but proven.

Tyrod has yet to prove himself to the Bills the league, and possibly to himself. If last year was his ceiling ? well that won't cut it. Everyone but his agent knows that.

The man and his agent negotiated a contract to become a Bill. Are you suggesting he should not honor that contract?

Its not exactly like anything Promo.

 

I would hope whaley, as he has said in the press, will reward Taylor for the progress he shows this coming year.

 

Tyrod signed up for this deal, why would he have remorse if he is succeeding.

Mario is a pissant who is blown by the winds, immature, petulant and has no strong foundation to anchor to.

Tyrod is a much stronger Man imo and know what is right and good. and he knows he will prevail.

Mario Williams? Nope. The player I was referring to is Jairus Byrd. We franchise tagged him and he suddenly developed planter faceitis and missed most of the season. This after he told the Bills not to tag him.

 

I bring Byrd (and Peters) up as cautionary tales to everyone who believes the Bills hold all the cards. (And not to root for a holdout as NoSaint stupidly suggests.)

 

I keep reading that TT is under contract and he has no choice but to report, play and earn his contract only from the Bills. But the history of this franchise should not allow us to be so smug.

 

Peters and Byrd both thumbed their noses at this team and left us no choice but to let them go. None suffered any stigma from their antics. In fact the national media spun it as good players trying to get off a dysfunctional team.

 

So pay attention to this Taylor saga. Tyrod is being the good cop. His agent the bad one. Meanwhile the media is already spinning this as a Cheap-Bills-not-paying-franchise-player story.

 

We aren't in Defcon mode yet but be aware it could.

Edited April 4, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Maury Ballstein]

It's a strange form of Battered Bills Fan Syndrome. Instead of thinking all our players suck, Promo thinks they're so good, they're gonna leave us for a new girlfriend.

Thank god we don't have Kirk Cousins. He might die.

[3rdand12]

Mario Williams? Nope. The player I was referring to is Jairus Byrd. We franchise tagged him and he suddenly developed planter faceitis and missed most of the season. This after he told the Bills not to tag him.

 

I bring Byrd (and Peters) up as cautionary tales to everyone who believes the Bills hold all the cards. (And not to root for a holdout as NoSaint stupidly suggests.)

 

I keep reading that TT is under contract and he has no choice but to report, play and earn his contract only from the Bills. But the history of this franchise should not allow us to be so smug.

 

Peters and Byrd both thumbed their noses at this team and left us no choice but to let them go. None suffered any stigma from their antics. In fact the national media spun it as good players trying to get off a dysfunctional team.

 

So pay attention to this Taylor saga. Tyrod is being the good cop. His agent the bad one. Meanwhile the media is already spinning this as a Cheap-Bills-not-paying-franchise-player story.

 

We aren't in Defcon mode yet but be aware it could.

Uggh the Byrd Tragedy. No way to repair that painful and awkward breakup

 

lets hope that business does not take an ugly turn. To me it seems simple. Tyrod kills it and we give him the farm and the Farmers daughter. Even that could be a mistake and many will poo poo it., but i am fine with that mindset.

[John from Riverside]

No different than anyone else who is ostracized for an opinion but turns out to be right.

Explain why. I see a player under contract who might feel he is underpaid. Exactly like a certain UDFA left tackle who many here feel the Bills erred in letting escape. Then there's a certain safety who developed a mysterious foot ailment after he signed his franchise tag tender. I'm just pointing out that while players may be under contract, they don't have to do what we want. The above are extreme examples, but they do happen.

OK I gotta say something PTR

 

I respect the hell out of you.....I agree with you on a lot of things that the masses here scoff at.....so....just throwin that out there

 

I think your off base on this one

 

You have brought up a couple of examples here.....Byrd and Peters

 

- Byrd was bitching long before he didnt get his mega contract....and was holding out long before he was out the door......I think it was also widely known that the bills dont place huge priority on putting their salary cap into safeties. They did give a contract to Aaron WIlliams that wasnt close to what Byrd got and for a while this ended up looking like the right play before Willaims injury....meanwhile....Byrd has been the same self serving......me guy that he was when he was with the bills and hasnt been near the same player.

 

- Jason Peters continually had his hand out asking for money.....they redid his contract when he out performed it...he asked for money again.....then they traded him and he unlike Byrd went on to a successful career somewhere else

 

OK.....so the differency here?

 

- The bills place high priority on this position

- TT has said NOTHING to indicate that he is holding out or is disgruntled...he is saying the right things in that he has a agent that will handle it.....he has a contract that he is gonna honor....and he doesnt know whats gonna happen after that. NEITHER of the above examples handled this the same way.

 

In addition.....I would like to point out that the bills actually have a track record of taking care of their players that "play ball" with the organization.....guys like.....Stevie Johnson.....Eric Wood.....Jerry Hughes.....Marcel Darius....guys that did not mouth off to the media were taken care of this organization so lets not act like the bills dont take care of their players...they have....and they will.

 

We are in a situation were TT has a contract....they probably want to see some consistancy in his play (as in carrying over his fine play from last year) before tying up 18 million dollars a year into a player.

 

I think Tyrod is doing it right and I think the bills are doing it right.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

OK I gotta say something PTR

 

I respect the hell out of you.....I agree with you on a lot of things that the masses here scoff at.....so....just throwin that out there

 

I think your off base on this one

 

You have brought up a couple of examples here.....Byrd and Peters

 

- Byrd was bitching long before he didnt get his mega contract....and was holding out long before he was out the door......I think it was also widely known that the bills dont place huge priority on putting their salary cap into safeties. They did give a contract to Aaron WIlliams that wasnt close to what Byrd got and for a while this ended up looking like the right play before Willaims injury....meanwhile....Byrd has been the same self serving......me guy that he was when he was with the bills and hasnt been near the same player.

 

- Jason Peters continually had his hand out asking for money.....they redid his contract when he out performed it...he asked for money again.....then they traded him and he unlike Byrd went on to a successful career somewhere else

 

OK.....so the differency here?

 

- The bills place high priority on this position

- TT has said NOTHING to indicate that he is holding out or is disgruntled...he is saying the right things in that he has a agent that will handle it.....he has a contract that he is gonna honor....and he doesnt know whats gonna happen after that. NEITHER of the above examples handled this the same way.

 

In addition.....I would like to point out that the bills actually have a track record of taking care of their players that "play ball" with the organization.....guys like.....Stevie Johnson.....Eric Wood.....Jerry Hughes.....Marcel Darius....guys that did not mouth off to the media were taken care of this organization so lets not act like the bills dont take care of their players...they have....and they will.

 

We are in a situation were TT has a contract....they probably want to see some consistancy in his play (as in carrying over his fine play from last year) before tying up 18 million dollars a year into a player.

 

I think Tyrod is doing it right and I think the bills are doing it right.

 

And I agree...to a point. You still have his agent stirring stuff up. It's probably nothing. Just an agent doing his job, right?

[Doc]

And I agree...to a point. You still have his agent stirring stuff up. It's probably nothing. Just an agent doing his job, right?

 

Maybe some of it is coming from TT. Who knows? What I do know is the Bills own him for the next 3 years if they so choose. It won't be cheap, but he's theirs.

[John from Riverside]

And I agree...to a point. You still have his agent stirring stuff up. It's probably nothing. Just an agent doing his job, right?

Actually that is exactly what I think

 

I mean TT isnt objecting to it.......as evidenced in "My agent handles that" or something to that effect.

 

Still.....not an issue

[Thurman#1]

Mario Williams? Nope. The player I was referring to is Jairus Byrd. We franchise tagged him and he suddenly developed planter faceitis and missed most of the season. This after he told the Bills not to tag him.

 

I bring Byrd (and Peters) up as cautionary tales to everyone who believes the Bills hold all the cards. (And not to root for a holdout as NoSaint stupidly suggests.)

 

I keep reading that TT is under contract and he has no choice but to report, play and earn his contract only from the Bills. But the history of this franchise should not allow us to be so smug.

 

Peters and Byrd both thumbed their noses at this team and left us no choice but to let them go. None suffered any stigma from their antics. In fact the national media spun it as good players trying to get off a dysfunctional team.

 

So pay attention to this Taylor saga. Tyrod is being the good cop. His agent the bad one. Meanwhile the media is already spinning this as a Cheap-Bills-not-paying-franchise-player story.

 

We aren't in Defcon mode yet but be aware it could.

 

 

Well, you're mis-stating some of that. Byrd had had plantaar fasciitis the year before. It didn't "suddenly develop." He'd played through it the year before, but they'd known about it. And since when is five games "most of the season"?

 

But yeah, you're quite right to point out that the Bills don't hold the whip hand here, that Taylor has some options.

 

But I can't see the same things happening here as happened with Byrd and Peters. Both Byrd and Peters were already playing not just at Pro Bowl level at that point, they were elite at their positions. Byrd was widely considered a top two safety and Peters a top two or three left tackle. Taylor just hasn't achieved nearly as much as those two had.

 

Oh, and the Bills certainly didn't have "no choice but to let them go" with Byrd and Peters. They absolutely had a choice. It was pay what the agent wanted - and both times the player was very easily able to find on the open market what they'd asked the Bills for - or let 'em go. So, yeah, pay market value or let 'em go. I mean, after they decided they didn't want to meet their demands then yeah there was only one alternative at that point, but there was another alternative available.

 

I don't see Tyrod holding out and hurting or eliminating his chance at playing for a new contract this year. With what Tyrod has already showed and nothing else, I don't think anyone pays him $20 mill or more with guaranteed money, which is probably what he's asking for. He almost certainly knows that he played well in that one year, but the Bills protected him and didn't ask him to carry the offense. I thought Byrd and Peters had real cases. Tyrod doesn't yet, and I think he knows it.

 

We'll see, I guess. Me personally, I don't see any real possibility of a holdout until next year.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

Maybe some of it is coming from TT. Who knows? What I do know is the Bills own him for the next 3 years if they so choose. It won't be cheap, but he's theirs.

 

 

 

Three years? That's pretty optimistic. I'd argue two.

 

I don't see them paying him the franchise tag value the second year. That'd be probably around $25 mill for that one year. If they thought he was worth that kind of dough they wouldn't have trouble signing him.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thurman#1

[Doc]

Well, you're mis-stating some of that. Byrd had had plantaar fasciitis the year before. It didn't "suddenly develop." He'd played through it the year before, but they'd known about it. And since when is five games "most of the season"?

 

But yeah, you're quite right to point out that the Bills don't hold the whip hand here, that Taylor has some options.

 

But I can't see the same things happening here as happened with Byrd and Peters. Both Byrd and Peters were already playing not just at Pro Bowl level at that point, they were elite at their positions. Byrd was widely considered a top two safety and Peters a top two or three left tackle. Taylor just hasn't achieved nearly as much as those two had.

 

Oh, and the Bills certainly didn't have "no choice but to let them go" with Byrd and Peters. They absolutely had a choice. It was pay what the agent wanted - and both times the player was very easily able to find on the open market what they'd asked the Bills for - or let 'em go. So, yeah, pay market value or let 'em go. I mean, after they decided they didn't want to meet their demands then yeah there was only one alternative at that point, but there was another alternative available.

 

I don't see Tyrod holding out and hurting or eliminating his chance at playing for a new contract this year. With what Tyrod has already showed and nothing else, I don't think anyone pays him $20 mill or more with guaranteed money, which is probably what he's asking for. He almost certainly knows that he played well in that one year, but the Bills protected him and didn't ask him to carry the offense. I thought Byrd and Peters had real cases. Tyrod doesn't yet, and I think he knows it.

 

We'll see, I guess. Me personally, I don't see any real possibility of a holdout until next year.

 

Maybe not $20M/year, but no doubt they saw what BO got from the Texans after just 7 career starts, all this past season, and worse stats this year and overall than TT (not to mention BO threw the ball an average of 22 times a game compared to TT"s 27). But holding out would be his worst option since I doubt they'd play him even when he returned.

 

Three years? That's pretty optimistic. I'd argue two.

 

I don't see them paying him the franchise tag value the second year. That'd be probably around $25 mill for that one year. If they thought he was worth that kind of dough they wouldn't have trouble signing him.

 

I don't either, but it is still an option. I think that if he proves he worth it, they'll give him a large new deal.

[Thurman#1]

OK I gotta say something PTR

 

I respect the hell out of you.....I agree with you on a lot of things that the masses here scoff at.....so....just throwin that out there

 

I think your off base on this one

 

You have brought up a couple of examples here.....Byrd and Peters

 

- Byrd was bitching long before he didnt get his mega contract....and was holding out long before he was out the door......I think it was also widely known that the bills dont place huge priority on putting their salary cap into safeties. They did give a contract to Aaron WIlliams that wasnt close to what Byrd got and for a while this ended up looking like the right play before Willaims injury....meanwhile....Byrd has been the same self serving......me guy that he was when he was with the bills and hasnt been near the same player.

 

- Jason Peters continually had his hand out asking for money.....they redid his contract when he out performed it...he asked for money again.....then they traded him and he unlike Byrd went on to a successful career somewhere else

 

OK.....so the differency here?

 

- The bills place high priority on this position

- TT has said NOTHING to indicate that he is holding out or is disgruntled...he is saying the right things in that he has a agent that will handle it.....he has a contract that he is gonna honor....and he doesnt know whats gonna happen after that. NEITHER of the above examples handled this the same way.

 

In addition.....I would like to point out that the bills actually have a track record of taking care of their players that "play ball" with the organization.....guys like.....Stevie Johnson.....Eric Wood.....Jerry Hughes.....Marcel Darius....guys that did not mouth off to the media were taken care of this organization so lets not act like the bills dont take care of their players...they have....and they will.

 

We are in a situation were TT has a contract....they probably want to see some consistancy in his play (as in carrying over his fine play from last year) before tying up 18 million dollars a year into a player.

 

I think Tyrod is doing it right and I think the bills are doing it right.

 

 

 

 

I'd agree that both Tyrod and the Bills are handling this just fine so far.

 

But I disagree with a lot of your other ideas here. The Bills have a track record of taking care of their players that play ball with the organization? Yeah? I don't see it. Looks to me like the Bills track record is taking care of some players that play ball and not taking care of others. Scott Chandler was willing to take a pay cut, right? Did they play ball with him? There are plenty of others who were good little soldiers and it got them nothing but a sincere thank you on the way out the door.

 

Leodis made a big deal out of being a good soldier, he said he wanted to be in Buffalo and hinted that he'd take a lower salary by saying that he was financially secure. That's a guy who's playing ball. Did they take care of him?

 

And where did Jerry Hughes suddenly become a guy who "played ball." He was the guy who said he'd never heard of a home-town discount. The way it looks to me is they sign the guys they need who they can make deals with.

 

As for Peters having his hand out, yeah, but he had good reason. They re-negotiated with him one time, when he was playing right tackle. They gave him a good salary for a right tackle and a long-term deal, and then very quickly switched him to a higher-paid position, left tackle, once again making him legitimately undervalued, this time only half a year after re-negotiating. Despite being one of the very best LTs in the league immediately, he was one of the two or three lowest-paid LTs in the league not on a first contract.

 

And Byrd didn't B word a single bit till his first contract was completely finished. Yeah he bitched about being franchised. Lots of people do.

 

Again, I agree with you that the Tyrod situation is quite different from Byrd's and Peters' situation, but IMHO those two guys handled their situations just fine too. They just couldn't come to an agreement with the Buffalo Bills. But they estimated their market values very exactly. Both got exactly what they thought they would get.