Doc Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I'm surprised the agent didn't negotiate major playing time/production incentives into his contract. Again, shame on him.
NoSaint Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I'm surprised the agent didn't negotiate major playing time/production incentives into his contract. Again, shame on him. The most major one possible is voiding a year. Going from a $1m salary to free agent is essentially a 15-20m escalator by itself assuming he plays well.
dave mcbride Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Really? Why would an owner give a GM an extension and then fire him one year later? You believe the anonymous (ball-less) "sources" in front office which is just reporter speculation. Sullivan was one of the ones who were bad mouthing the Bills because they were not giving Fritz and Stevie extensions and then after it did not work out he bad mouthed the Bills for giving the extensions! There are valid reasons why teams have losing season and it is not a foregone conclusion that a bad season will necessarily result in firing. Listening to idiotic advice should be a firing offense. Look: I could be wildly wrong in saying this, but if the Bills win 6 or fewer games this season I don't see how either Rex or Whaley survive. The fact that Whaley has an extension becomes immaterial at a certain point if there is a unanimous chorus of negativity in the fan base and the media. Rex has 4 years left too, and I don't think anyone expects him to be back if the team tanks this season. Let's hope none of this happens and they win 11+ games.
Doc Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Look: I could be wildly wrong in saying this, but if the Bills win 6 or fewer games this season I don't see how either Rex or Whaley survive. The fact that Whaley has an extension becomes immaterial at a certain point if there is a unanimous chorus of negativity in the fan base and the media. Rex has 4 years left too, and I don't think anyone expects him to be back if the team tanks this season. Let's hope none of this happens and they win 11+ games. I think Rex is on the hot seat but not Whaley. Whaley didn't hire Rex.
dave mcbride Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I think Rex is on the hot seat but not Whaley. Whaley didn't hire Rex. I dunno. Whaley will be on the hot seat for presiding over a half decade of mediocrity if nothing else. I guarantee you that there will be mass call for his firing if the Bills have bad season. Pegula may not listen, but he might. At a certain point, the excuses about Rex not being his hire or EJ his pick (which I think is a wholly unconvincing claim, btw - he scouted him and clearly loved him) stop being acceptable. Again, maybe the Bills will have a good season and none of this ever becomes an issue.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Look at Russell Wilson's first 3 seasons: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm . He threw for less ypg than Taylor in 2 of the 3 and essentially matched Taylor's in the third. The Seahawks were 36-12 in those years. His ypa was essentially the same as Taylor's. Last season, he threw it more. They went 10-6 and should have been 9-7 if not for a gift from the refs in the Lions game. But the team was still good (better than their record; using a pythagorean measure, they were 11.7-4.3) and he was very good, having his best ypa season (8.3). As for your link, if you look closely, you'll see that there is a much higher correlation between winning and ypa than winning and ypg. Palmer averaged 8.7 ypa and Ben R averaged 8.4 ypa. 1) The Seahawks had one of the greatest defenses of all time. I thought we had that type of defense and then Rex crushed those dreams. Before last season, Wilson was along for the ride on a great time. 2) Wilson completed 72.8% of his passes his senior year. Taylor completed 59.7%. One could argue that Taylor's completion % might be a career peak. Hopefully, he is the exception but players rarely become more accurate in the NFL. Wilson was very accurate and a much more natural passer in college. 3) ypa makes a lot more sense in comparison to attempts. Big Ben and Brady carry their teams with their arms. Right now, Taylor is not capable of that and his ypa is inflated because of the limited passes and passes he throws. I would argue that he could be a better overall qb with more ints and a lower ypa because he is attempting more difficult passes.
dave mcbride Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 1) The Seahawks had one of the greatest defenses of all time. I thought we had that type of defense and then Rex crushed those dreams. Before last season, Wilson was along for the ride on a great time. 2) Wilson completed 72.8% of his passes his senior year. Taylor completed 59.7%. One could argue that Taylor's completion % might be a career peak. Hopefully, he is the exception but players rarely become more accurate in the NFL. Wilson was very accurate and a much more natural passer in college. 3) ypa makes a lot more sense in comparison to attempts. Big Ben and Brady carry their teams with their arms. Right now, Taylor is not capable of that and his ypa is inflated because of the limited passes and passes he throws. I would argue that he could be a better overall qb with more ints and a lower ypa because he is attempting more difficult passes. more difficult passes are deeper ones, so i don't buy your argument. The all-time case for your argument is Kurt Warner, who specialized in very difficult deeper throws, but more important than his ypg was his staggeringly high ypa in his prime: 8.7, 9.9, and 8.8 from 1999-2001. Btw, I'm not claiming that Taylor is as good as any of these guys. He's just better than any Bills QB since Flutie in 1998 and before that Kelly in the 1993 playoffs (not the 1993 season). I will grant that Kelly's 1995 season was arguably better. Wilson was a lot better than you give him credit for in those seasons. He was damn good from 2012-14 even if he wasn't the greatest qb of all time. Edited March 24, 2016 by dave mcbride
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 1) The Seahawks had one of the greatest defenses of all time. I thought we had that type of defense and then Rex crushed those dreams. Before last season, Wilson was along for the ride on a great time. 2) Wilson completed 72.8% of his passes his senior year. Taylor completed 59.7%. One could argue that Taylor's completion % might be a career peak. Hopefully, he is the exception but players rarely become more accurate in the NFL. Wilson was very accurate and a much more natural passer in college. 3) ypa makes a lot more sense in comparison to attempts. Big Ben and Brady carry their teams with their arms. Right now, Taylor is not capable of that and his ypa is inflated because of the limited passes and passes he throws. I would argue that he could be a better overall qb with more ints and a lower ypa because he is attempting more difficult passes. Are the pro stats really so similar that you needed to go back to 5 year old college stats to support your point?
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Are the pro stats really so similar that you needed to go back to 5 year old college stats to support your point? It's very rare for a guy to become a much more accurate in the pros than he was in college. Wilson was very accurate in college. Taylor wasn't. His completion % last year was an improvement over his college numbers. I believe that is a very thing. Wilson doing what he is doing as a passer isn't that big of a surprise.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 It's very rare for a guy to become a much more accurate in the pros than he was in college. Wilson was very accurate in college. Taylor wasn't. His completion % last year was an improvement over his college numbers. I believe that is a very thing. Wilson doing what he is doing as a passer isn't that big of a surprise. And yet here we are, and Tyrod had a completion percentage for 14 games of 63.7% College stats don't matter, especially for players who have been in the NFL for 4+ years.
Big Turk Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Wtf does the agent expect with their cap space? And yet here we are, and Tyrod had a completion percentage for 14 games of 63.7% College stats don't matter, especially for players who have been in the NFL for 4+ years.Taylor was very accurate and puts the ball in good spots. He definitely bucked that trend. Perhaps his was a mechanics issue he worked hard and fixed during his time in BaltimoreI'm surprised the agent didn't negotiate major playing time/production incentives into his contract. Again, shame on him.He negotiated a voidable year. Far more valuable than any incentives Edited March 24, 2016 by matter2003
Doc Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The most major one possible is voiding a year. Going from a $1m salary to free agent is essentially a 15-20m escalator by itself assuming he plays well. He negotiated a voidable year. Far more valuable than any incentives Good point.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) And yet here we are, and Tyrod had a completion percentage for 14 games of 63.7% College stats don't matter, especially for players who have been in the NFL for 4+ years.14 games with a limited throwing set. I know you are a giant fan and I hope you are right. But to act like he is throwing routes like Rodgers and that there isn't potential for him to fail is kinda silly. But like I said, I hope you're right. more difficult passes are deeper ones, so i don't buy your argument. The all-time case for your argument is Kurt Warner, who specialized in very difficult deeper throws, but more important than his ypg was his staggeringly high ypa in his prime: 8.7, 9.9, and 8.8 from 1999-2001. Btw, I'm not claiming that Taylor is as good as any of these guys. He's just better than any Bills QB since Flutie in 1998 and before that Kelly in the 1993 playoffs (not the 1993 season). I will grant that Kelly's 1995 season was arguably better. Wilson was a lot better than you give him credit for in those seasons. He was damn good from 2012-14 even if he wasn't the greatest qb of all time. A lot of those deep balls were 50-50 ones that Sammy made the play on. I love those shots but I e seen Mike Vick throw those too. They are not consistent plays and as a result, we were 2nd worse in 3 and outs. As much as our defense sucked, going 3 and out hurts them too. IMO, the franchise qb throw is across the middle in the redzone between two defenders. He had a good season but I think guys like Fitz (who had way less talent around him) and Bledsone has to carry us more. If he's a franchise guy, I'd like to see him carry us more. Edited March 24, 2016 by C.Biscuit97
thebandit27 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 A lot of those deep balls were 50-50 ones that Sammy made the play on. I love those shots but I e seen Mike Vick throw those too. They are not consistent plays and as a result, we were 2nd worse in 3 and outs. As much as our defense sucked, going 3 and out hurts them too. IMO, the franchise qb throw is across the middle in the redzone between two defenders. He had a good season but I think guys like Fitz (who had way less talent around him) and Bledsone has to carry us more. If he's a franchise guy, I'd like to see him carry us more. Sammy's great, no doubt, but this is an overstatement. Most of Tyrod's deep completions were simply well-thrown balls.
dave mcbride Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Sammy's great, no doubt, but this is an overstatement. Most of Tyrod's deep completions were simply well-thrown balls. Indeed - they were mostly well thrown. There weren't many jump ball victories for Sammy this season. I remember one against KC, but not many others.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Sammy's great, no doubt, but this is an overstatement. Most of Tyrod's deep completions were simply well-thrown balls. You're probably right. He does throw a great deep ball. I think the KC game it just seemed like he was just throwing them up to Sammy. I'd love a breakdown of them if someone ever gets the time.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 You're probably right. He does throw a great deep ball. I think the KC game it just seemed like he was just throwing them up to Sammy. I'd love a breakdown of them if someone ever gets the time. Sammy was getting open with all the attention in the world on him at times as well. That guy is something else.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 @NFL 2 from the AFC. 1 from the NFC. 3 players primed to take off in 2016: http://on.nfl.com/1UxVG9F (via @NFLNow)
The Jokeman Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I'm surprised the agent didn't negotiate major playing time/production incentives into his contract. Again, shame on him. He did that's why he's an UFA after this year and not next year. This where I think Whaley shows his forethought of buildingg a roster as feels like he knew we wouldn't have the cap space to pay for a franchise QB in 2016. Sammy's great, no doubt, but this is an overstatement. Most of Tyrod's deep completions were simply well-thrown balls. Now if he could just find Clay in the middle of the field more and/or let Robert Woods show what he did as a rookie under EJ and TT will be a complete QB. Edited March 28, 2016 by The Jokeman
3rdand12 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 He did that's why he's an UFA after this year and not next year. This where I think Whaley shows his forethought of buildingg a roster as feels like he knew we wouldn't have the cap space to pay for a franchise QB in 2016. Now if he could just find Clay in the middle of the field more and/or let Robert Woods show what he did as a rookie under EJ and TT will be a complete QB. Damn straight. the rest will come if he can get these tasks dialed in. Good thought about Whaley btw !
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