No progress toward TT extension per Carucci; agent unhappy

[C.Biscuit97]

Would you agree that he is above Bradford and Osweiler though? There isn't a question to me that he is. That is the market for a QB now. Whether we like it or not, that is what it is in the NFL now.

 

The best case scenario would be a Kaepernick deal IMO. It has minimal guarantees the 1st 3 years. He earns a good bit every year if he is on the roster but he earns it. After 3 years the big portion of the guarantees kick in.

Well, I think Bradford sucks and has said for years. Honestly, I like Osweiler better because I liked him in college. I've always stated that I'm not a big fan on smaller guys who rely on their feet.

 

Osweiler shouldn't have gotten his deal and either should Taylor. But BO was a free agent so it is a different situation. Paying a qb who you limit the amount of times he throws big bucks worries me.

 

If Taylor can have a similar season (but with more throws and demonstration of winning games himself), pay him big bucks. But it's nuts to give a guy who averages 216 yards big money.

 

As a Bills fan, what's more likely to happen? Taylor blows up, we make the playoffs, and he strong arms us? Or he is like every other qb we have had for the last 16 year?

 

We have all the leverage here.

Who would pay EJ $18M? Is that even a question?

 

Your point is that he's close to EJ than Brady? And you used just EJ's and TT's stats to show that? Bold move. You do know there are other QB's not named Brady who get paid a lot of money, right? You do know that other QB's who aren't in the top 3 all time players exist and get big contracts?

 

Your boy's career is dead. Time to

I know you get bored and just like to argue but how is it crazy to point out that EJ, who is awful, averages almost 50 yards more/ game and more tds per start than Taylor shouldn't be a reason not to pay TT now?

 

And my boy is going to be in the NFL this year. Your boy crush, Johnny Hobbit, is busy snorting Tony off toilet seats and hitting women. But he was so good against Alabama!

[FireChan]

Well, I think Bradford sucks and has said for years. Honestly, I like Osweiler better because I liked him in college. I've always stated that I'm not a big fan on smaller guys who rely on their feet.

 

Osweiler shouldn't have gotten his deal and either should Taylor. But BO was a free agent so it is a different situation. Paying a qb who you limit the amount of times he throws big bucks worries me.

 

If Taylor can have a similar season (but with more throws and demonstration of winning games himself), pay him big bucks. But it's nuts to give a guy who averages 216 yards big money.

 

As a Bills fan, what's more likely to happen? Taylor blows up, we make the playoffs, and he strong arms us? Or he is like every other qb we have had for the last 16 year?

 

We have all the leverage here.

 

I know you get bored and just like to argue but how is it crazy to point out that EJ, who is awful, averages almost 50 yards more/ game and more tds per start than Taylor shouldn't be a reason not to pay TT now?

 

And my boy is going to be in the NFL this year. Your boy crush, Johnny Hobbit, is busy snorting Tony off toilet seats and hitting women. But he was so good against Alabama!

lol, yes I'm the one who posts in every topic about him. Oh wait. Nope.

 

EJ averaged more yard and TD's because he sucked so bad he got to play on prevent D. He's garbage and will always be garbage. I long for the day he is gone, because no matter how ****ty he plays, you for some reason need to bring him up over and over and over and over. Were you like this with JP and Trent? Smart money says yes.

Edited March 23, 2016 by FireChan

[Doc]

Would you agree that he is above Bradford and Osweiler though? There isn't a question to me that he is. That is the market for a QB now. Whether we like it or not, that is what it is in the NFL now.

 

The best case scenario would be a Kaepernick deal IMO. It has minimal guarantees the 1st 3 years. He earns a good bit every year if he is on the roster but he earns it. After 3 years the big portion of the guarantees kick in.

 

The market doesn't enter into the equation KJ because he's not a free agent, unlike the other 2 guys. His options are to a) accept the extension the Bills offered, b) play under his existing contract, or c) hold out.

[C.Biscuit97]

lol, yes I'm the one who posts in every topic about him. Oh wait. Nope.

 

EJ averaged more yard and TD's because he sucked so bad he got to play on prevent D. He's garbage and will always be garbage. I long for the day he is gone, because no matter how ****ty he plays, you for some reason need to bring him up over and over and over and over. Were you like this with JP and Trent? Smart money says yes.

Stay annoying, Ponyboy.

[dave mcbride]

Well, I think Bradford sucks and has said for years. Honestly, I like Osweiler better because I liked him in college. I've always stated that I'm not a big fan on smaller guys who rely on their feet.

 

Osweiler shouldn't have gotten his deal and either should Taylor. But BO was a free agent so it is a different situation. Paying a qb who you limit the amount of times he throws big bucks worries me.

 

If Taylor can have a similar season (but with more throws and demonstration of winning games himself), pay him big bucks. But it's nuts to give a guy who averages 216 yards big money.

 

As a Bills fan, what's more likely to happen? Taylor blows up, we make the playoffs, and he strong arms us? Or he is like every other qb we have had for the last 16 year?

 

We have all the leverage here.

 

I know you get bored and just like to argue but how is it crazy to point out that EJ, who is awful, averages almost 50 yards more/ game and more tds per start than Taylor shouldn't be a reason not to pay TT now?

 

And my boy is going to be in the NFL this year. Your boy crush, Johnny Hobbit, is busy snorting Tony off toilet seats and hitting women. But he was so good against Alabama!

Not to start anything, but passing ypg is a completely worthless stat and an argument loser (especially when the team is the leading rushing team in the nfl). Ypa is what you should be looking at.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

The market doesn't enter into the equation KJ because he's not a free agent, unlike the other 2 guys. His options are to a) accept the extension the Bills offered, b) play under his existing contract, or c) hold out.

Correct. We shouldn't hand out bad contracts because the Eagles and possibly the Texans did.

 

Taylor had an Alex Smith type of season. I hate Alex Smith because he's good enough not to get you beat but he rarely takes you to the next level.

 

I want Taylor to be the guy who takes our team to the next level and can beat you with his arm when the defenses takes his running away. Guys like Kaepernick and Vick couldn't do this. Hopefully for both him and the team, TT can do this because we will be really good and he will be a rich man.

 

But there's is a lot to prove first.

Not to start anything, but passing ypg is a completely worthless stat and an argument loser (especially when the team is the leading rushing team in the nfl). Ypa is what you should be looking at.

Great point and look at all these losers: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame Big Ben, Brady, Palmer, Brees! Losers!

 

Passing yardage per game can be overvalued but say it is a worthless stat means you are completely clueless about how the NFL is played now. They want you to pass. All rules favor you passing. It's dumb not to pass. Ypa is a good stat but quick math: what's better 7 ypa on 15 attempts or 6 ypa on 30 attempts?

[NoSaint]

Not to start anything, but passing ypg is a completely worthless stat and an argument loser (especially when the team is the leading rushing team in the nfl). Ypa is what you should be looking at.

but you cant use YPA in a vacuum either. at some point it is important for him to have more attempts (especially if paying 20m a year). once you pay the qb, you dont get to keep the 5 good lineman, and probowl TE and great WR and probowl rb and.... to get that pay day, realistically he has to throw 30 times a game behind a serviceable line with more middle of the pack weapons.

 

you dont pay 20m for 4 games under 20 attempts. Russell Wilson had 10 games last year over 30 attempts (none under 20), exactly the same with cam newton as another young franchise qb.

[Doc]

Correct. We shouldn't hand out bad contracts because the Eagles and possibly the Texans did.

 

Taylor had an Alex Smith type of season. I hate Alex Smith because he's good enough not to get you beat but he rarely takes you to the next level.

 

I want Taylor to be the guy who takes our team to the next level and can beat you with his arm when the defenses takes his running away. Guys like Kaepernick and Vick couldn't do this. Hopefully for both him and the team, TT can do this because we will be really good and he will be a rich man.

 

But there's is a lot to prove first.

 

I agree and for that reason I want Roman to dump the entire playbook on his lap and put it all on his shoulders. Make him show he deserves $18M or more per season.

[dave mcbride]

Correct. We shouldn't hand out bad contracts because the Eagles and possibly the Texans did.

 

Taylor had an Alex Smith type of season. I hate Alex Smith because he's good enough not to get you beat but he rarely takes you to the next level.

 

I want Taylor to be the guy who takes our team to the next level and can beat you with his arm when the defenses takes his running away. Guys like Kaepernick and Vick couldn't do this. Hopefully for both him and the team, TT can do this because we will be really good and he will be a rich man.

 

But there's is a lot to prove first.

 

Great point and look at all these losers: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame Big Ben, Brady, Palmer, Brees! Losers!

 

 

Passing yardage per game can be overvalued but say it is a worthless stat means you are completely clueless about how the NFL is played now. They want you to pass. All rules favor you passing. It's dumb not to pass. Ypa is a good stat but quick math: what's better 7 ypa on 15 attempts or 6 ypa on 30 attempts?

Look at Russell Wilson's first 3 seasons: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm . He threw for less ypg than Taylor in 2 of the 3 and essentially matched Taylor's in the third. The Seahawks were 36-12 in those years. His ypa was essentially the same as Taylor's.

 

Last season, he threw it more. They went 10-6 and should have been 9-7 if not for a gift from the refs in the Lions game. But the team was still good (better than their record; using a pythagorean measure, they were 11.7-4.3) and he was very good, having his best ypa season (8.3).

Great point and look at all these losers: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame Big Ben, Brady, Palmer, Brees! Losers!

 

As for your link, if you look closely, you'll see that there is a much higher correlation between winning and ypa than winning and ypg. Palmer averaged 8.7 ypa and Ben R averaged 8.4 ypa.

Edited March 23, 2016 by dave mcbride

[Kirby Jackson]

 

The market doesn't enter into the equation KJ because he's not a free agent, unlike the other 2 guys. His options are to a) accept the extension the Bills offered, b) play under his existing contract, or c) hold out.

Just to be clear I was referring to "IF" he were a FA. It is impossible to do anything this year even if both sides wanted. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. My point is that if you added TT to this FA class I don't think $18M is crazy based on what other young QBs got. It was a hypothetical.

[3rdand12]

 

I agree and for that reason I want Roman to dump the entire playbook on his lap and put it all on his shoulders. Make him show he deserves $18M or more per season.

I am okay with this thinking except putting it ALL on his shoulders. The Bills are designed to run and maintain ball control and time of possession.

Would like to see him lead and then carry the team when needed . he tried last year and gave great effort, but he used his legs instead of his players/ weapons. We all expect more ,TT included i bet !

[Saxum]

Why would he be laughed at? The Bills don't have anything close to another credible option at QB, and if the Bills do poorly this year the GM and coach will both be fired. There is certainly an arguable case for holding out. Taylor holds some good cards.

Really? Why would an owner give a GM an extension and then fire him one year later?

You believe the anonymous (ball-less) "sources" in front office which is just reporter speculation.

Sullivan was one of the ones who were bad mouthing the Bills because they were not giving Fritz and Stevie extensions and then after it did not work out he bad mouthed the Bills for giving the extensions!

 

There are valid reasons why teams have losing season and it is not a foregone conclusion that a bad season will necessarily result in firing. Listening to idiotic advice should be a firing offense.

[Doc]

Just to be clear I was referring to "IF" he were a FA. It is impossible to do anything this year even if both sides wanted. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. My point is that if you added TT to this FA class I don't think $18M is crazy based on what other young QBs got. It was a hypothetical.

 

In that case I agree with you that his market value would be what SB and BO got, i.e. ~$18M/year. Sorry about that one.

 

I am okay with this thinking except putting it ALL on his shoulders. The Bills are designed to run and maintain ball control and time of possession.

Would like to see him lead and then carry the team when needed . he tried last year and gave great effort, but he used his legs instead of his players/ weapons. We all expect more ,TT included i bet !

 

Uh uh. The Bills have just this coming season to decide whether or not he's worth $18M/year or more. There's no way I'm letting him play ball control/barely throw the ball, never mind only winning when throwing 20 passes a game (on average) and then watch him demand huge dollars.

[3rdand12]

 

In that case I agree with you that his market value would be what SB and BO got, i.e. ~$18M/year. Sorry about that one.

 

 

Uh uh. The Bills have just this coming season to decide whether or not he's worth $18M/year or more. There's no way I'm letting him play ball control/barely throw the ball, never mind only winning when throwing 20 passes a game (on average) and then watch him demand huge dollars.

well considering what the Bills have fielded since forever you are rather demanding.

How about we just make the playoffs this coming season Doc ?

I don't feel very strongly that Bills even know what to do with a decent QB. Much less us Fans.

 

Tyrod made fewer mistakes than any QB i recall, even Kelly. yes i said it.

If that is his game let him strengthen it under Roman.

 

we should be Grateful of the chance to keep Tyrod if he keeps improving.

If he can see the middle of the field , climb the pocket and just manage the game i would be delighted!

[Doc]

well considering what the Bills have fielded since forever you are rather demanding.

How about we just make the playoffs this coming season Doc ?

I don't feel very strongly that Bills even know what to do with a decent QB. Much less us Fans.

 

Tyrod made fewer mistakes than any QB i recall, even Kelly. yes i said it.

If that is his game let him strengthen it under Roman.

 

we should be Grateful of the chance to keep Tyrod if he keeps improving.

If he can see the middle of the field , climb the pocket and just manage the game i would be delighted!

 

I don't care what they've had in the past at QB. And none of them warranted $18M/year either. I need to see if TT is the man. If he is, pay him. If not, find someone else.

[3rdand12]

 

I don't care what they've had in the past at QB. And none of them warranted $18M/year either. I need to see if TT is the man. If he is, pay him. If not, find someone else.

had a lot of luck with the finding someone/anyone else thing haven't we ?

That's why it makes it so difficult for fans i imagine.

you do realize that Bills have not had a franchise qb in a gazillion years. not even close.

[Doc]

had a lot of luck with the finding someone/anyone else thing haven't we ?

That's why it makes it so difficult for fans i imagine.

you do realize that Bills have not had a franchise qb in a gazillion years. not even close.

 

True, but that's not a reason to rush and give a guy $18M/year when he doesn't deserve it. That's similar to the argument some made about sorely overpaying Levitre, i.e. there was no one better to replace him.

[3rdand12]

 

True, but that's not a reason to rush and give a guy $18M/year when he doesn't deserve it. That's similar to the argument some made about sorely overpaying Levitre, i.e. there was no one better to replace him.

I do agree. let him show his progress under Roman this year.

if he is successful he will surely get his fair share !

[Saxum]

TT could get an extension even with cap issues with small raise this year and guaranteed money next year but what he wants is a $18M/year contract starting this year and he has not earned it yet. The way he is currently playing taking chances with his body he will not likely be able to last full seasons and that means Bills need a competent backup QB for when he is not playing.

 

Based on agent's words I hope priority of drafting a QB has gone up.

[NoSaint]

i will note I don't think paying him some this year is impossible. If you restructure him down to 1m salary, take the remaining $2m he's on the books for and do a $10m signing bonus and he's still at $3m cap hit but taking home $11m.

 

Grow his cap number to $4m and you can get him to $16m in pocket this year.... It's just not the friendliest to the team and risky if he flops. I'm not advocating it, just giving an example.