ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Over-cautions. Fact is, there was no way a U-boat was getting into the Great Lakes. However you sail into the lakes, you're going against the flow of water. Surfaced, a U-Boat wasn't getting up the St. Lawrence without being seen. Submerged, it wasn't getting up the St. Lawrence at all. A U-Boat couldn't handle more than a 2 knot current submerged, which I'm assuming is slower than the St. Lawrence's flow. And that's besides the fact that the typical U-Boat (Type VIIc) barely carried enough fuel to get to the Atlantic coast, never mind another 1000 miles upriver. What about some how attached to the under side of a freighter. They were pretty small. I never realized how dinky those era subs were. The Croaker in BFLo... We even camped out the night on the Silversides in Muskegon a bunch of years ago. Those two subs were bigger American Gato-class types... What about the enemy trying to push a smaller one through under the hull of a freighter? During high water, since at that time the St. Lawrence section wasn't as improved since the locks went in and opened in 1959. So, it would have been a clear shot to The Welland to distrupt Lake shipping... Suicide mission none the less! One and done, or see how far they could get to wreck psychological damage? Yeah... Pretty out there hypothesis I know... ;-) Edited March 22, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) The ore coming out of Duluth and the Mesabi Range along with the industrial might from places like: Milwaukee, Chicago, Gary, Cleveland, Toldeo, Detroit, BFLo, Montreal, Toronto had to be impressive in war machine scale... So many vessels on the water... Hundreds in each port... ...Many places to hide or even poagy along? One vessel blending in another in the thick polluted enviro... Edited March 22, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 What about some how attached to the under side of a freighter. They were pretty small. I never realized how dinky those era subs were. Would have had to go through the Cornwall Canal locks which were only 14 feet deep just to get to lake Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The smuggled the parts into the US and assembled the sub here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Would have had to go through the Cornwall Canal locks which were only 14 feet deep just to get to lake Ontario. Oops, that's what it said. Pretty shallow. Yeah... I was wondering how the St. Lawrence was set before the big makeover in the late 1950s. SeawayMax is now: 740' Long x 78' Wide x 26' Draft. Big diff between 14' & 26'! ;-) The smuggled the parts into the US and assembled the sub here. LoL... I kinda hinted to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The smuggled the parts into the US and assembled the sub here. Now that would be a great story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I figured it was the Red October Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 I figured it was the Red October No that is being hidden in Maine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 What about some how attached to the under side of a freighter. They were pretty small. I never realized how dinky those era subs were. The Croaker in BFLo... We even camped out the night on the Silversides in Muskegon a bunch of years ago. Those two subs were bigger American Gato-class types... What about the enemy trying to push a smaller one through under the hull of a freighter? During high water, since at that time the St. Lawrence section wasn't as improved since the locks went in and opened in 1959. So, it would have been a clear shot to The Welland to distrupt Lake shipping... Suicide mission none the less! One and done, or see how far they could get to wreck psychological damage? Yeah... Pretty out there hypothesis I know... ;-) The mystery is not how the sub arrived there,the mystery is why you feel Tom can answer your question.Watching TV all day and eating microwave dinners hardly makes one an expert on anything more than what shows are on at any particular time or day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 VIDEO: Watch A US Nuclear Submarine Emerge From The Ice. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The guy who runs facebook is an idiot. A rich one though. An idiot ? ...... the man is a ******* genius. The fact he got to be a billionaire over this proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The mystery is not how the sub arrived there,the mystery is why you feel Tom can answer your question.Watching TV all day and eating microwave dinners hardly makes one an expert on anything more than what shows are on at any particular time or day. He's pretty up on the military history thing and takes a pragmatic view. It really doesn't appear the mac-n-cheese was talking this time. I haven't really studied the make-up of what the pre-Seaway & Cornwall Canal locks were like, but it sounds like pretty tight quarters. Myself being a lock & dam operator, I find it fascinating that such a daring operation of sneaking through a lock is what it would taken to enter into The Lakes. I might appear to be high as sh*t to you guys, I don't think I would be that high to miss a submarine coming through the shallow draft lock where I work. Again, I find it fascinating that it would even be attempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 He's pretty up on the military history thing and takes a pragmatic view. It really doesn't appear the mac-n-cheese was talking this time. I haven't really studied the make-up of what the pre-Seaway & Cornwall Canal locks were like, but it sounds like pretty tight quarters. Myself being a lock & dam operator, I find it fascinating that such a daring operation of sneaking through a lock is what it would taken to enter into The Lakes. I might appear to be high as sh*t to you guys, I don't think I would be that high to miss a submarine coming through the shallow draft lock where I work. Again, I find it fascinating that it would even be attempted. You might find this interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The mystery is not how the sub arrived there,the mystery is why you feel Tom can answer your question.Watching TV all day and eating microwave dinners hardly makes one an expert on anything more than what shows are on at any particular time or day. I've studied this **** longer than you've been alive, boy. Go back to playing with yourself and shut the !@#$ up. An idiot ? ...... the man is a ******* genius. The fact he got to be a billionaire over this proves it. He's an idiot who made billions realizing everyone else is not only as big an idiot as he is, but would enjoy the privilege of participating in group idiocy. Facebook made idiocy publicly acceptable. Facebook is the reason we have a comically horrible Obama presidency, and are facing the real possibility of a comically apocalyptic Trump presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I've studied this **** longer than you've been alive, boy. Go back to playing with yourself and shut the !@#$ up. He's an idiot who made billions realizing everyone else is not only as big an idiot as he is, but would enjoy the privilege of participating in group idiocy. Facebook made idiocy publicly acceptable. Facebook is the reason we have a comically horrible Obama presidency, and are facing the real possibility of a comically apocalyptic Trump presidency. I know, you're a legend in your own mind.I can tell you are VERY intelligent, especially when you call people names like a child. Enjoy your shows all day cause I know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) You might find this interesting. Interesting, that locks were 240' long. Our lock in S.Chicago was tacked on to Seaway appropriations when the lock was constucted in 1960. It is right @ the terminus of The Seaway @ Lake Calumet. The lock was built to 1000' longx110', but still shallow draft (18 feet over sills, but canal project depth is 9'). That chamber size is a whole 8 times larger than the locks on the old Cornwall! The width of the old Cornwall is downright tight at 45'!!! Old Cornwall has the dimensions of The Okeechobee Waterway... St. Lucie Lock (250'x50') was built in 1945... I wonder why they didn't go bigger seeing that the Intercoastal was hustled to a finish during the war... To protect Atlantic shipping. ?? I started an extensive lock thread on OTW... I should add your link! Thanks again, The Lock Nerd... ;-) I've studied this **** longer than you've been alive, boy. Go back to playing with yourself and shut the !@#$ up. He's an idiot who made billions realizing everyone else is not only as big an idiot as he is, but would enjoy the privilege of participating in group idiocy. Facebook made idiocy publicly acceptable. Facebook is the reason we have a comically horrible Obama presidency, and are facing the real possibility of a comically apocalyptic Trump presidency. LoL... Spot on. My 80 year old father who never touched a computer in his life, let alone the Escape key... Summed it up a bunch of years ago: "Facebook is front porch gossip." LoL Edited March 23, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I know, you're a legend in your own mind.I can tell you are VERY intelligent, especially when you call people names like a child. Enjoy your shows all day cause I know better. You don't know **** from shinola. I actually write about this ****. Nothing you've read, of course...they're not comic books. LoL... Spot on. My 80 year old father who never touched a computer in his life, let alone the Escape key... Summed it up a bunch of years ago: "Facebook is front porch gossip." LoL Sad thing is, when I was on Facebook, my sole interaction with people was receiving nonsense like this submarine crap, then telling them to stop sending me stupid ****. Basically..."Get off my lawn, you stupid kids!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Here's some innarestin' stuff on our big subs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I've studied this **** longer than you've been alive, boy. Go back to playing with yourself and shut the !@#$ up. He's an idiot who made billions realizing everyone else is not only as big an idiot as he is, but would enjoy the privilege of participating in group idiocy. Facebook made idiocy publicly acceptable. Facebook is the reason we have a comically horrible Obama presidency, and are facing the real possibility of a comically apocalyptic Trump presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 You don't know **** from shinola. I actually write about this ****. Nothing you've read, of course...they're not comic books. Congrats!!!!!! you write! Very good.I'm simply amazed that you have time to post here ALL DAY LONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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