Alaska Darin Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: No knocks are bollocks for sure. But breonna wasn't killed during one, so it's irrelevant to this situation. I don't think knocking on a door, screaming "police", and then immediately taking the door with guns drawn in the middle of the night is much different. Liberty versus the state. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Nope. Not at all. I’m saying that when police serve a just warrant and get shot at it, they’re well within their rights to shoot back and if someone dies in the crossfire, it’s the fault of whoever fired the first shot. I will grant that there’s clearly ambiguity if the shooter doesn’t know it’s police, but as has been established, that’s not the case here. Are you equating just with law? If so, you just sided with the British during the afore mentioned Boston Massacre. 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Yup, sure Jan. Sometimes I follow your logic and even if I do not agree, I find it has a logical explanation. In this case? I think your take is nuts. Well, I can explain why: it’s because you’re wrong, and are protecting a bias. If you’d like, I can dissect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said: I just can't get behind any of this. I don't see the reason for this particular "take down". There are very few reasons to go through someone's door when they're sleeping that make sense to the libertarian in me. If you don't see the government overreach here, you need to take a step back. If they didn't know he had a gun, they're fools. If they knew he had a gun and went through his door in the middle of the night when they thought he'd be sleeping, they're even bigger fools. I heard Rand earlier today commenting on the 'middle of the night' part of this. He was essentially asking "Was there not a better place and time to do this as it related to a drug bust?" If it was a life or death thing, okay. But we're talking about a drug bust. I understand his point, but I wonder what reasoning there is to do this in the middle of the night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Well, I can explain why: it’s because you’re wrong, and are protecting a bias. If you’d like, I can dissect it. No-knocks (and recall in this case they knocked and were ***** shot at) are totes illegal. You may want to read up on the law. Again, please spend some time with these brave LEOs who serve warrants on these drug dealers. After you have been shot at for trying to serve a warrant on these charming, precious little angels, you may change your tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Just now, IDBillzFan said: I heard Rand earlier today commenting on the 'middle of the night' part of this. He was essentially asking "Was there not a better place and time to do this as it related to a drug bust?" If it was a life or death thing, okay. But we're talking about a drug bust. I understand his point, but I wonder what reasoning there is to do this in the middle of the night. Standard operating practice because people are less likely to resist...except when the do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said: I don't think knocking on a door, screaming "police", and then immediately taking the door with guns drawn in the middle of the night is much different. Liberty versus the state. To what extent though. If someone is in a house with a hostage and has a gun to her head, do the police need to wait for him to take the chain off the door before breaching? We obviously have examples in our system wherein law enforcement breaking down doors and using the element of surprise is acceptable. I’m not saying this example is one of them, but supposedly they didn’t do that anyways. 4 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Are you equating just with law? If so, you just sided with the British during the afore mentioned Boston Massacre. And you in your view are siding with the anarchists in the street who are arguing that laws don’t matter if they don’t fit their definition of “justice.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Just now, whatdrought said: To what extent though. If someone is in a house with a hostage and has a gun to her head, do the police need to wait for him to take the chain off the door before breaching? We obviously have examples in our system wherein law enforcement breaking down doors and using the element of surprise is acceptable. I’m not saying this example is one of them, but supposedly they didn’t do that anyways. Big difference between serving a warrant and an imminent danger situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said: Big difference between serving a warrant and an imminent danger situation. The guy shot at them, how much more dangerous does it get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Just now, Buffalo_Gal said: The guy shot at them, how much more dangerous does it get? Way to miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said: Big difference between serving a warrant and an imminent danger situation. In a practical sense yes, but when we talk about the protection of due process as it pertains to search and seizure it’s really not different as they’re both seen as within the context of due process. (Or in the case of imminent danger, seen as superseding process) No-knocks became prevalent because people were destroying evidence when police served traditional warrants and it gave highly dangerous criminals the opportunity to prepare to combat the police. Again, I’m not sure how it’s justified in this situation, but it doesn’t change the facts of what actually happened. P.s.- if anything, your argument is a point in favor of the no-knock. If in this case they hadn’t knocked and gone in quickly maybe they get him subdued before he gets to the gun. Here it just seems like he wanted to shoot it out with the cops. Edited September 24, 2020 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said: Way to miss the point. What was the point since you think I missed it. You stated there was a "Big difference between serving a warrant and an imminent danger situation." They served a warrant (and foolishly knocked) so the guy started shooting. That is imminent danger. They shot back. Edited September 24, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Nope. Not at all. I’m saying that when police serve a just warrant and get shot at it, they’re well within their rights to shoot back and if someone dies in the crossfire, it’s the fault of whoever fired the first shot. I will grant that there’s clearly ambiguity if the shooter doesn’t know it’s police, but as has been established, that’s not the case here. I thought I had read that the boyfriend made a statement that he did not hear the police identify themselves and do we know if the boyfriend had a visual ID on the police before shooting? Is it possible that there was some mis-communication here? Police at door say they are police with warrant and enter and Breonna and Boyfriend don't hear that, assume it's an intruder and boyfriend fires? Any way you look at it, it's terrible that this woman lost her life. Edited September 24, 2020 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 How many more radical left narratives need to be completely destroyed before they just start telling the truth? it’s like a bottomless pit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: I thought I had read that the boyfriend made a statement that he did not hear the police identify themselves and do we know if the boyfriend had a visual ID on the police before shooting? Is it possible that there was some mis-communication here? Police at door say they are police with warrant and enter and Breonna and Boyfriend don't hear that, assume it's an intruder and boyfriend fires. Any way you look at it, it's terrible that this woman lost her life. Going strictly off of what the AG said today, the police identified themselves outside the apartment, waited several minutes and then entered. Upon entering they were met with Taylor and the BF standing at the end of the hall and he had his gun raised and fired immediately. It was actually difficult for me to find the transcript of then AG’s statement, but here it is: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3507419001 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 https://www.wdrb.com/news/metrosafe-lmpd-officer-shot-at-brook-and-broadway-in-downtown-louisville/article_8236bf40-fdfd-11ea-8fd2-d3f4b95b0f33.html ***** animals. this is one block from my wife’s work. I drive it every day when I drop her off. Take all their worthless asses to jail. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Going strictly off of what the AG said today, the police identified themselves outside the apartment, waited several minutes and then entered. Upon entering they were met with Taylor and the BF standing at the end of the hall and he had his gun raised and fired immediately. It was actually difficult for me to find the transcript of then AG’s statement, but here it is: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3507419001 This wouldn’t happen if they legalized drugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, B-Man said: Totally organic protest... nothing to see here. Edited September 24, 2020 by RocCityRoller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: I thought I had read that the boyfriend made a statement that he did not hear the police identify themselves and do we know if the boyfriend had a visual ID on the police before shooting? Is it possible that there was some mis-communication here? Police at door say they are police with warrant and enter and Breonna and Boyfriend don't hear that, assume it's an intruder and boyfriend fires? Any way you look at it, it's terrible that this woman lost her life. Do you know if the boyfriends gun was legal? I really don't know, just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Two police officers were shot in Louisville tonight, suspect in custody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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