Liberal Protests

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Maybe the left needs to execute five year old white kids to get the message across?  You know, for george floyd.

That dudes in jail, right? 

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Unfortunately, yes, I agree.  Laborers are voting against their own interests, and Trump’s lies have eaten away at union strength.  Unions don’t vote as a block like they used to.  

Divide by race and conquer 

[ziltoid]

14 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

 

Legally, what is within her rights to do?  Just lean a little further back into her chair?  Accept the covid spittle into her mouth and eyes?

 

@SectionC3, you're a lawyer right?  Care to weigh in?

[RochesterRob]

27 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Unfortunately, yes, I agree.  Laborers are voting against their own interests, and Trump’s lies have eaten away at union strength.  Unions don’t vote as a block like they used to.  

  You are missing the point.  The unions were in steep decline long before Trump came along and I do not agree with your assessment regarding him.  AMC's best years were from the mid 1950's (when a bunch of smaller companies such as Nash were combined to form AMC) when AMC was formed until the late 1980's when AMC was bought and most of its products were discontinued.  A shame in some respects as some designs such as the Eagle lived on in other manufacturers lines namely Subaru.  

Edited August 25, 2020 by RochesterRob

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

(Already covered -- but good point)

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

32 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Unfortunately, yes, I agree.  Laborers are voting against their own interests, and Trump’s lies have eaten away at union strength.  Unions don’t vote as a block like they used to.  

Although its fashionable to blame Trump for everything the decline of union membership has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with the globalization movement.  The decline began in the late 1970's and accelerated into the end of the 20th century.  First factories and businesses fled the Northeast and Midwest for the union-free South and "right to work" states.  Later to other countries like Mexico with NAFTA and China via the granting of most favored nation trade status.  The deal with China  and other Asian countries like Japan was a trade of American jobs and access to the lucrative U.S. market in exchange for creating a market for the purchase of U.S. debt that funded deficit spending and all shorts of social and defense programs. 

These former union and middle class workers that saw their standard of living downsized voted for Trump because nobody else even recognized their existence.  Or provided them any hope for the future.  Certainly not the Democratic party or Hillary Clinton who labeled them as "deplorables".   The Democrats long abandoned these people for fringe social causes that caused the party platform to drift to the left while embracing the promise of the new economy and the technology provided by the silicon valley oligarchs.  

So here we are today with a hollowed out economy massively in debt with no hope of paying any of it back with everybody on their iPhones hiding in their homes watching riots and looting in the streets demanding all kinds of free stuff and payoffs while we wait for a November election disaster and what should be a long and painful economic depression when it finally hits home that there's nothing left to redistribute and everybody's on their own.       

Edited August 25, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You are missing the point.  The unions were in steep decline long before Trump came along and I do not agree with your assessment regarding him.  AMC's best years were from the mid 1950's (when a bunch of smaller companies such as Nash were combined to form AMC) when AMC was formed until the late 1980's when AMC was bought and most of its products were discontinued.  A shame in some respects as some designs such as the Eagle lived on in other manufacturers lines namely Subaru.  

I’m not missing the point.  Union members, at least in the manufacturing sector, typically are white males who buy Trump’s lies.  Yes, that collectivity and strength was fading before Trump.  But Trump has accelerated the process.  Good for rich people, bad for the working class. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

Although its fashionable to blame Trump for everything the decline of union membership has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with the globalization movement.  The decline began in the late 1970's and accelerated into the end of the 20th century.  First factories and businesses fled the Northeast and Midwest for the union-free South and "right to work" states.  Later to other countries like Mexico with NAFTA and China via the granting of most favored nation trade status.  The deal with China  and other Asian countries like Japan was a trade of American jobs and access to the lucrative U.S. market in exchange for creating a market for the purchase of U.S. debt that funded deficit spending and all shorts of social and defense programs. 

These former union and middle class workers that saw their standard of living downsized voted for Trump because nobody else even recognized their existence.  Or provided them any hope for the future.  Certainly not the Democratic party or Hillary Clinton who labeled them as "deplorables".   The Democrats long abandoned these people for fringe social causes that caused the party platform to drift to the left while embracing the promise of the new economy and the of technology provided by the silicon valley oligarchs.  

So here we are today with a hollowed out economy massively in debt with no hope of paying any of it back with everybody on their iPhones hiding in their homes watching riots and looting in the streets demanding all kinds of free stuff and payoffs while we wait for a November election disaster and what should be a long and painful economic depression when it finally hits home that there's nothing left to redistribute and everybody's on their own.       

 

I agree with you on the “recognition” point.  See my Prada and pearls comment.  

 

I think you’re focusing on manufacturing, and your points about the flight of manufacturing jobs (due in some part to bad trade deals and in other, significant part to the fact that it’s simply cheaper to make things when you pay people only a couple of bucks an hour) largely is fair.  The problem, of course, is that crappy trade deals or not, those people always were going to be left behind as technology evolved.  Trump said he would do something for them, and he really hasn’t.  On top of that, with respect to unions as a whole, Trump and Republicans did grave damage to public unions through the Supreme Court’s Janus decision — an assault upon stare decisis if ever there was one — and ignored the rule of law to manufacture a result that significantly undercut non-manufacturing unions, such as teachers unions, police unions, and elements of unions representing health care workers.  

 

The disaster point is something with which I probably disagree.  If you’re suggesting that Biden will be a disaster, I couldn’t disagree more strongly.  (As an aside, if this current state of affairs isn’t a disaster, I don’t know what is.)  If you’re suggesting the election will be a mess because it’s going to take time for largely Democratic absentees to arrive and to be counted, and that those arrivals will be Biden’s margin of victory, and that in the meantime Trump will lie and claim a rigged election and the idiots who follow him will buy it and threaten to throw the country into chaos, then yes, I agree.  I worry about that every day. 

[BillStime]

 

[SectionC3]

28 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

 

Legally, what is within her rights to do?  Just lean a little further back into her chair?  Accept the covid spittle into her mouth and eyes?

 

@SectionC3, you're a lawyer right?  Care to weigh in?

 

Isn’t the virus a hoax?  So the spittle point, assuming there was spittle, is not moving to me.  (And she has a mask on, so I’m not going to worry about the mouth issue.  And it also doesn’t appear that she was spat upon, so we’re going to skip right past that.) 

 

Your question otherwise is pretty vague.  Can she talk or get up and walk away?  Sure.  Why not?  If you’re getting at an application of force question, the first thing she has to do in this scenario (involving a “threat” of non-deadly force and not involving a burglary of her home, assuming she’s in Wisconsin and the law there is the same as it is in NYS) is retreat.  It doesn’t look like anyone or anything blocked that.  So if you’re suggesting that she should have been able to strike/shoot/whatever one of the people around her, I don’t think it would have been justified based on what I saw.  

 

[Reality Check]

18 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I’m not missing the point.  Union members, at least in the manufacturing sector, typically are white males who buy Trump’s lies.  Yes, that collectivity and strength was fading before Trump.  But Trump has accelerated the process.  Good for rich people, bad for the working class. 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

26 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I agree with you on the “recognition” point.  See my Prada and pearls comment.  

 

I think you’re focusing on manufacturing, and your points about the flight of manufacturing jobs (due in some part to bad trade deals and in other, significant part to the fact that it’s simply cheaper to make things when you pay people only a couple of bucks an hour) largely is fair.  The problem, of course, is that crappy trade deals or not, those people always were going to be left behind as technology evolved.  Trump said he would do something for them, and he really hasn’t.  On top of that, with respect to unions as a whole, Trump and Republicans did grave damage to public unions through the Supreme Court’s Janus decision — an assault upon stare decisis if ever there was one — and ignored the rule of law to manufacture a result that significantly undercut non-manufacturing unions, such as teachers unions, police unions, and elements of unions representing health care workers.  

 

The disaster point is something with which I probably disagree.  If you’re suggesting that Biden will be a disaster, I couldn’t disagree more strongly.  (As an aside, if this current state of affairs isn’t a disaster, I don’t know what is.)  If you’re suggesting the election will be a mess because it’s going to take time for largely Democratic absentees to arrive and to be counted, and that those arrivals will be Biden’s margin of victory, and that in the meantime Trump will lie and claim a rigged election and the idiots who follow him will buy it and threaten to throw the country into chaos, then yes, I agree.  I worry about that every day. 

First all politicians lie.  The entire system depends on lying.  And I believe that no matter who "wins" the election there's going to be trouble.  Expect court battle over vote fraud and/or suppression in the hotly contested battle ground states.  We might not know the winner for months.  This will cause all kinds of social and economic disruptions.  And if Trump happens to pull it off again in November the fringe left is going to completely freak out.  If Biden wins I don't see him completing the entire 4 year term.  I'm expecting trouble with the economy no matter which candidate wins.  There's simply too much debt and not enough productive activity. Eventually, all that borrowing which pulls future consumption to the present consumes all of your income.  Most important, the U.S. is afforded a "grand privilege" from the world's use of the U.S. dollar as the official reserve and trade settlement currency of the world.  It's a blank check that others do not have the ability to access and use.  Its what allows huge deficits and the consumption of goods and services way over and above what we produce.  That is slowly but surely coming to an end.  If there's one place where Trump has done the most damage it has been in pulling forward this day of reckoning.  The immediate impacts will be much higher prices for everything and a downward adjustment in everyone's standard of living that doesn't do some preparation and planning for that event.       

Edited August 25, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[RiotAct]

22 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

I mean, yeah, laws exist for a reason.

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

First all politicians lie.  The entire system depends on lying.  And I believe that no matter who "wins" the election there's going to be trouble.  Expect court battle over vote fraud and/or suppression in the hotly contested battle ground states.  We might not know the winner for months.  This will cause all kinds of social and economic disruptions.  And if Trump happens to pull it off again in November the fringe left is going to completely freak out.  If Biden wins I don't see him completing the entire 4 year term.  I'm expecting trouble with the economy no matter which candidate wins.  There's simply too much debt and not enough productive activity. Eventually, all that borrowing which pulls future consumption to the present consumes all of your income.  Most important, the U.S. is afforded a "grand privilege" from the world's use of the U.S. dollar as the official reserve and trade settlement currency of the world.  It's a blank check that others do not have the ability to access and use.  Its what allows huge deficits and the consumption of goods and services way over and above what we produce.  That is slowly but surely coming to an end.  If there's one place where Trump has done the most damage it has been in pulling forward this day of reckoning.  The immediate impacts will be much higher prices for everything and a downward adjustment in everyone's standard of living that doesn't do some preparation and planning for that event.       

Suppression will be the day of the election, and perhaps the time leading up to the election (see Brian Kemp’s stunts in GA).  The litigation is going to lie in the debates about which absentee ballots should be counted, and whether the Trump Post Office scam to delay the arrival of ballots should be allowed to knock out late-arriving absentees.  I think you and I agree that it’s going to be a mess.  I’m very worried that Biden’s margin of victory is going to be sitting in bins in post offices and boards of election on November 3, not to be counted for days and during which time Trump is going to lie, claim victory, and cause chaos.  We all have to be prepared to wait about 10 days for a result.  Even then, Trumper liars in places like Georgia or Arizona could threaten the election by not certifying their state’s delegates (assuming Biden wins, needs that certification to hit 270, and Kemp/Ducey throw their respective states and therefore the election, again assuming that Republicans retain enough state delegations should this thing reach the house) to Trump.  Arizona is what really, really, really worries me right now.  It’s going to be tight and Ducey is a hopeless Trumper who puts fealty ahead of country. 

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Suppression will be the day of the election, and perhaps the time leading up to the election (see Brian Kemp’s stunts in GA).  The litigation is going to lie in the debates about which absentee ballots should be counted, and whether the Trump Post Office scam to delay the arrival of ballots should be allowed to knock out late-arriving absentees.  I think you and I agree that it’s going to be a mess.  I’m very worried that Biden’s margin of victory is going to be sitting in bins in post offices and boards of election on November 3, not to be counted for days and during which time Trump is going to lie, claim victory, and cause chaos.  We all have to be prepared to wait about 10 days for a result.  Even then, Trumper liars in places like Georgia or Arizona could threaten the election by not certifying their state’s delegates (assuming Biden wins, needs that certification to hit 270, and Kemp/Ducey throw their respective states and therefore the election, again assuming that Republicans retain enough state delegations should this thing reach the house) to Trump.  Arizona is what really, really, really worries me right now.  It’s going to be tight and Ducey is a hopeless Trumper who puts fealty ahead of country. 

 

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

First all politicians lie.  The entire system depends on lying.  And I believe that no matter who "wins" the election there's going to be trouble.  Expect court battle over vote fraud and/or suppression in the hotly contested battle ground states.  We might not know the winner for months.  This will cause all kinds of social and economic disruptions.  And if Trump happens to pull it off again in November the fringe left is going to completely freak out.  If Biden wins I don't see him completing the entire 4 year term.  I'm expecting trouble with the economy no matter which candidate wins.  There's simply too much debt and not enough productive activity. Eventually, all that borrowing which pulls future consumption to the present consumes all of your income.  Most important, the U.S. is afforded a "grand privilege" from the world's use of the U.S. dollar as the official reserve and trade settlement currency of the world.  It's a blank check that others do not have the ability to access and use.  Its what allows huge deficits and the consumption of goods and services way over and above what we produce.  That is slowly but surely coming to an end.  If there's one place where Trump has done the most damage it has been in pulling forward this day of reckoning.  The immediate impacts will be much higher prices for everything and a downward adjustment in everyone's standard of living that doesn't do some preparation and planning for that event.       

I think we might agree on the economy.  This whole thing is a house of cards built on credit.  And it’s a huge wealth transfer opportunity for people who can afford securities.  I have no idea what the solution is, but I know that it’s not firing up coal plants again. Unfortunately we wasted $2 trillion this year when we chose to buy time without having a plan to defeat the “hoax” of a virus.  Now we have nothing to show for that.  So the next round of stimulus has to result in something, e.g., green energy innovation, infrastructure, rural broadband, whatever.  We can’t light it on fire again. 

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I think we might agree on the economy.  This whole thing is a house of cards built on credit.  And it’s a huge wealth transfer opportunity for people who can afford securities.  I have no idea what the solution is, but I know that it’s not firing up coal plants again. Unfortunately we wasted $2 trillion this year when we chose to buy time without having a plan to defeat the “hoax” of a virus.  Now we have nothing to show for that.  So the next round of stimulus has to result in something, e.g., green energy innovation, infrastructure, rural broadband, whatever.  We can’t light it on fire again. 

 

[BillStime]

19 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, yeah, laws exist for a reason.

Hmmm not for this guy 

 

[Reality Check]

15 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Hmmm not for this guy 

 

 

[B-Man]

4 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

 

 

 

He re-runs almost all of his material RC.

 

So feel free to do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paulus]

39 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Hmmm not for this guy