billsfan1959 Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: I just totally support the bill. If the local governments don’t want to punish people I’d be happy a federal law is ready to be used to go after who ever does something so evil. It’s good to have tool in the tool box if needed I can appreciate your position. However, there are already civil remedies and existing criminal laws that can address much of this. If there is something specific that is not already addressed or needs to be clarified/more specific, then I have no problem. It feels much like other hate crime legislation: Well intentioned; but, it really takes existing laws and recreates them in a way to put motive at the center of the guilt/innocence phase of the prosecution, rather than addressing it as an aggravating factor in sentencing
SoCal Deek Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I can appreciate your position. However, there are already civil remedies and existing criminal laws that can address much of this. If there is something specific that is not already addressed or needs to be clarified/more specific, then I have no problem. It feels much like other hate crime legislation: Well intentioned; but, it really takes existing laws and recreates them in a way to put motive at the center of the guilt/innocence phase of the prosecution, rather than addressing it as an aggravating factor in sentencing Reminds me of the Equal Pay laws. There’s a poster in every break room in my office that says it’s the law that I have to pay people equally (which I do)....and yet we hear about supposed gender inequality right around election time, like clockwork! 2
Tiberius Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I can appreciate your position. However, there are already civil remedies and existing criminal laws that can address much of this. If there is something specific that is not already addressed or needs to be clarified/more specific, then I have no problem. It feels much like other hate crime legislation: Well intentioned; but, it really takes existing laws and recreates them in a way to put motive at the center of the guilt/innocence phase of the prosecution, rather than addressing it as an aggravating factor in sentencing But it does allow for those denied justice at local level to have a higher law to look to.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I can appreciate your position. However, there are already civil remedies and existing criminal laws that can address much of this. If there is something specific that is not already addressed or needs to be clarified/more specific, then I have no problem. It feels much like other hate crime legislation: Well intentioned; but, it really takes existing laws and recreates them in a way to put motive at the center of the guilt/innocence phase of the prosecution, rather than addressing it as an aggravating factor in sentencing ..certainly agree...BUT...an impediment is the uphill battle prosecutors face is filing the EXACT and applicable charges, seating an objective jury pool, and then being faced with overturned convictions by a scrutinizing Appeals Court......the Judge assigned to a case is making quick decisions/rulings daily, whereas an Appeals Court (three or more) have ample time to sit and review the case, taking as much time as they deem necessary....what about the lawyers (COUGH) arrested in the NYC molotov cocktail incident who were released?......thankfully Appeals Court overruled and remanded them to jail...... 1
billsfan1959 Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: But it does allow for those denied justice at local level to have a higher law to look to. I believe that already exists under federal civil rights laws. I do not mind federal criminal legislation that is necessary. So, I guess it depends on what specific denial of justice at the local level are we talking about? Or are we talking about legislation specifically designed to circumvent double jeopardy?
Foxx Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tiberius said: But it does allow for those denied justice at local level to have a higher law to look to. just in case their ego was bruised, amiright?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I believe that already exists under federal civil rights laws. I do not mind federal criminal legislation that is necessary. So, I guess it depends on what specific denial of justice at the local level are we talking about? Or are we talking about legislation specifically designed to circumvent double jeopardy? ...as long as they are applied EQUALLY.....racism/civil rights are NOT just limited to skin color.....what about ETHNIC racism?....yes Hate Crimes legislation begins to address this.....isn't ETHNIC racism a worldwide pandemic?.....thousands of years in existence and NO end in sight.....hell we even have clowns in the US society who don't know the Civil War is over....geographic racism/hate crimes....."Yankees vs Confederates" still exist.....my retired neighbors (in their 70's) drove from Rochester NY to Myrtle Beach for a vacation.....because of NY plates, the "yankees" were confronted and threatened....are we really still THIS BAD?.....good Lord.......got any solutions??..........
Tiberius Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I believe that already exists under federal civil rights laws. I do not mind federal criminal legislation that is necessary. So, I guess it depends on what specific denial of justice at the local level are we talking about? Or are we talking about legislation specifically designed to circumvent double jeopardy? No, it’s designed to circumvent “No Jeopardy” in case local officials refuse to act. 18 minutes ago, Foxx said: just in case their ego was bruised, amiright? Local officials have a tremendous amount of power over peoples lives. Ever see Who Killed Garret Phillips? Great HBO documentary about a small NY town trying to convict a black guy for a murder there was no proof he did. Really crazy and the whole town (much like a lynching) wanted to get this black guy.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 ...shocking that Arkansas' pant suited feral hog weighs in with the solutions......Ms Irrelevant reveals that old losing wounds never heal...... Clinton calls Trump 'failure' in blistering interview, questions how anyone 'with a beating heart and a working mind' supports him By Ronn Blitzer | Fox News Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton railed against President Trump and his response to George Floyd’s death in a new interview with the Los Angeles Times, saying his handling of the situation has been “inadequate” and that the president has been “such a failure across the board.” In excerpts of the interview that were published Saturday, Clinton pulled no punches when it comes to the president or his supporters. “It is a mystery why anybody with a beating heart and a working mind still supports him,” she said. Clinton accused Trump of making everything “all about him” instead of addressing problems head on. “If it’s about a terrible pandemic with an unprecedented virus, he tries to ignore it, tries to keep the attention on himself,” she said. “Then when it becomes impossible to do that, he tries to seize the moment and turn it into a daily rally, like he loves to do. And then when it becomes impossible to ignore, he tries to change the subject, he tries to withdraw from the spotlight so he can come up with some other diversion and distraction for the body politic and the press.” Clinton then said that in the immediate aftermath of Floyd’s death after being pinned to the ground by Minneapolis police, Trump appeared to respond well, but then dropped the ball. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-rips-failure-trump-questions-how-anyone-with-a-beating-heart-and-a-working-mind-supports-him-in-new-interview
billsfan1959 Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...as long as they are applied EQUALLY.....racism/civil rights are NOT just limited to skin color.....what about ETHNIC racism?....yes Hate Crimes legislation begins to address this.....isn't ETHNIC racism a worldwide pandemic?.....thousands of years in existence and NO end in sight.....hell we even have clowns in the US society who don't know the Civil War is over....geographic racism/hate crimes....."Yankees vs Confederates" still exist.....my retired neighbors (in their 70's) drove from Rochester NY to Myrtle Beach for a vacation.....because of NY plates, the "yankees" were confronted and threatened....are we really still THIS BAD?.....good Lord.......got any solutions??.......... I don't have any specific solution. I wish I did. I believe, as a society, we have made real progress in systemic biases and prejudices on different levels. It hasn't changed to the degree most of us would like; however, we are changing. In addition, there will always be a small segment of society that just does bad things. It is fairly consistent and doesn't really change.Violent crime will always exist. There is a rate range it fluctuates between, but it is always there. However, we are making progress there as well. WHile it may seem worse to many, the rates of violent violent crime have been at some of their lowest numbers across the board. We just keep trying, I guess...
billsfan1959 Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, it’s designed to circumvent “No Jeopardy” in case local officials refuse to act. There are always going to be injustices in the prosecution, conviction, and sentencing of people in this country. It is a system run entirely by human beings. I am all in favor doing what we can in continually shaping laws and criminal procedures to eliminate those injustices. I would prefer that, whatever we do, it not be so vague and broad that it invites more injustice in its application.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't have any specific solution. I wish I did. I believe, as a society, we have made real progress in systemic biases and prejudices on different levels. It hasn't changed to the degree most of us would like; however, we are changing. In addition, there will always be a small segment of society that just does bad things. It is fairly consistent and doesn't really change.Violent crime will always exist. There is a rate range it fluctuates between, but it is always there. However, we are making progress there as well. WHile it may seem worse to many, the rates of violent violent crime have been at some of their lowest numbers across the board. We just keep trying, I guess... ...a VERY fair assessment....and yes there is NO magical or overnight "cure".....step back and look at the world......thousands and thousands of years exist relative to ethnic racism with NO end in sight......and we are purported to have the "magic wand"?.....seriously?......and the full court press in the US for socialism to level the playing field to punish achievers regardless of race, creed, color, ethnicity et al so the "gimme crowd", again REGARDLESS of race, creed, color, ethnicity et al want more for doing less or even nothing?......should we assume that with Phase 3, all of these protestors are going back to work (COUGH)??....... Edited June 7, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy 1
Chef Jim Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...shocking that Arkansas' pant suited feral hog weighs in with the solutions......Ms Irrelevant reveals that old losing wounds never heal...... Clinton calls Trump 'failure' in blistering interview, questions how anyone 'with a beating heart and a working mind' supports him By Ronn Blitzer | Fox News Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton railed against President Trump and his response to George Floyd’s death in a new interview with the Los Angeles Times, saying his handling of the situation has been “inadequate” and that the president has been “such a failure across the board.” In excerpts of the interview that were published Saturday, Clinton pulled no punches when it comes to the president or his supporters. “It is a mystery why anybody with a beating heart and a working mind still supports him,” she said. Clinton accused Trump of making everything “all about him” instead of addressing problems head on. “If it’s about a terrible pandemic with an unprecedented virus, he tries to ignore it, tries to keep the attention on himself,” she said. “Then when it becomes impossible to do that, he tries to seize the moment and turn it into a daily rally, like he loves to do. And then when it becomes impossible to ignore, he tries to change the subject, he tries to withdraw from the spotlight so he can come up with some other diversion and distraction for the body politic and the press.” Clinton then said that in the immediate aftermath of Floyd’s death after being pinned to the ground by Minneapolis police, Trump appeared to respond well, but then dropped the ball. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-rips-failure-trump-questions-how-anyone-with-a-beating-heart-and-a-working-mind-supports-him-in-new-interview This is great! Deplorable v2 Bag on the President all you want. He deserves it sometimes. But when you start saying his supporters do not have working minds you piss people off. Go Hillary go!!
B-Man Posted June 7, 2020 Author Posted June 7, 2020 Massachusetts Trump supporter, 82, ‘violently assaulted’ by motorist, 27, police say by Dom Calicchio Original Article Nobody should be attacked for their political views, Charlie Chase says. But according to authorities, that’s exactly what happened last week to the 82-year-old U.S. military veteran and supporter of President Trump. The Fall River, Mass., man says he was holding a Trump sign and wearing a Trump hat when suddenly a motorist allegedly got out of his car and charged toward him. DA declines to prosecute man arrested in St. Patrick’s Cathedral vandalism by Dean Balsamini & Mary Kay Linge Original Article Turns out desecration is no crime in New York City. The Queens man arrested for scarring the landmarked façade of St. Patrick’s Cathedral during a George Floyd protest is now free—because the Manhattan District Attorney’s office declined to prosecute him. Yadir Avila Rosas, 26, was taken into custody at 5:30 a.m. Saturday, an NYPD spokeswoman told The Post.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: This is great! Deplorable v2 Bag on the President all you want. He deserves it sometimes. But when you start saying his supporters do not have working minds you piss people off. Go Hillary go!! ...agree bud....his bombastic (COUGH) style is something we've never seen out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.....and I love how he has turned the "good ol boyz political fraternity" on its ugly head......exposure of graft , corruption, manipulation etc is something I never imagined ran THAT deep...BUT....there are times when I cringe at his tweets, etc and wish he would STFU......so it is his craving for attention?...OR.....is it his belief in country ala MAGA?......perhaps MAGA is a great ruse because he actually wanted the exorbitant presidential salary, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave digs, his own library and book deal(s)....... 9 minutes ago, B-Man said: Massachusetts Trump supporter, 82, ‘violently assaulted’ by motorist, 27, police say by Dom Calicchio Original Article Nobody should be attacked for their political views, Charlie Chase says. But according to authorities, that’s exactly what happened last week to the 82-year-old U.S. military veteran and supporter of President Trump. The Fall River, Mass., man says he was holding a Trump sign and wearing a Trump hat when suddenly a motorist allegedly got out of his car and charged toward him. DA declines to prosecute man arrested in St. Patrick’s Cathedral vandalism by Dean Balsamini & Mary Kay Linge Original Article Turns out desecration is no crime in New York City. The Queens man arrested for scarring the landmarked façade of St. Patrick’s Cathedral during a George Floyd protest is now free—because the Manhattan District Attorney’s office declined to prosecute him. Yadir Avila Rosas, 26, was taken into custody at 5:30 a.m. Saturday, an NYPD spokeswoman told The Post. ...well it's a Catholic joint right?......Vance Jr shines............
B-Man Posted June 7, 2020 Author Posted June 7, 2020 MICHAEL BARONE: As in the 1960s, violent rioting hurts the most disadvantaged. 3 protesters tracked officers to their homes, threw Molotov cocktails at police cars, authorities say. BLACK LIVELIHOODS MATTER: Shop owners reveal financial and emotional struggles of being looted. “They tell me ‘Black Lives Matter.’ They’re lying . . . I’m black, look what you did to my store.” 1
Tiberius Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 33 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: There are always going to be injustices in the prosecution, conviction, and sentencing of people in this country. It is a system run entirely by human beings. I am all in favor doing what we can in continually shaping laws and criminal procedures to eliminate those injustices. I would prefer that, whatever we do, it not be so vague and broad that it invites more injustice in its application. Local people have trouble dealing with issues that a higher level of government can look at more distantly and less I passionately. A great example of this Niagara Falls where it took the federal government coming in a dealing with organized crime that had crippled the local economy and the local police and courts were too scared or not powerful enough to stop. There was a 75% mark up in all construction projects, so no wonder the Canadian side looked so much better until the Feds came in. I remember one of the reporters getting attacked by a mobsters thug reporting on that, right in broad daylight. These local racist cliques are not at all that much different 8 minutes ago, B-Man said: MICHAEL BARONE: As in the 1960s, violent rioting hurts the most disadvantaged. 3 protesters tracked officers to their homes, threw Molotov cocktails at police cars, authorities say. BLACK LIVELIHOODS MATTER: Shop owners reveal financial and emotional struggles of being looted. “They tell me ‘Black Lives Matter.’ They’re lying . . . I’m black, look what you did to my store.” Vast majority of protests are peaceful, stop trying to make it seem different.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Local people have trouble dealing with issues that a higher level of government can look at more distantly and less I passionately. A great example of this Niagara Falls where it took the federal government coming in a dealing with organized crime that had crippled the local economy and the local police and courts were too scared or not powerful enough to stop. There was a 75% mark up in all construction projects, so no wonder the Canadian side looked so much better until the Feds came in. I remember one of the reporters getting attacked by a mobsters thug reporting on that, right in broad daylight. These local racist cliques are not at all that much different Vast majority of protests are peaceful, stop trying to make it seem different. ...blurred vision from under your rock?.....peaceful murders of cops?....292 NYC cops injured?......molotov cocktails, bricks strategically deployed for "convenience"?....and you crave legitimacy?.....sometimes ignorance should NOT be advertised.......
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