Liberal Protests

[Chandemonium]

9 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

 

Phone in the right hand, what appeared to be a police helmet in the left hand.  I rewatched after your post and I didn't see anything that indicated an "reach" toward an officer's service weapon.  That said, I appreciate that I watched it from a distance and that there is a remote possibility that the officer in question might have seen the movement only out of the corner of his eye and reacted accordingly. 

 

Also, I'm not concerned about not putting the flex cuffs on the guy.  The point is that if he actually presented a threat to officer safety you'd think the police would have neutralized that threat instead of stepping past him.  That part doesn't wash with me. 

He clearly reaches out with his right hand at approximately waist height. I’m not saying he was making a play for the gun, in fact it seems like he probably wasn’t since he still had the phone, I’m just saying the cops can’t afford to have that same line of thinking and be wrong in a situation like that. 
 

My point is that it’s pretty clear that he no longer presents a threat when the guy is laying there in the fencing position literally bleeding out his ears. If you can’t see that we’ll have to agree to disagree I guess. 

[BillsFanNC]

36 minutes ago, Magox said:

This is a byproduct of cancel culture by all the PC/Woke college students some years back that would boot conservatives or for that matter any dissenting views from the universities.
 

Now they have grown up and some have become journalists.

 

 

 

I’ve never been accused of being an alarmist but this toxic growing element of society must be rooted out.   This poses significant risks and those risks are beginning to bear fruit.

 

Double think

 

#Orwellian

 

That tweet is somewhat misleading. Many don't think of opposing views as "violence" with the quotation marks. The quotes imply that in their thought process they are knowingly making this ridiculous leap and deep down don't really equate getting punched in the face with hearing opinions that oppose their own. But the truth is many of them actually do consider physical violence as no different than phrases, sentences or speeches that don't match their opinions. 

 

Saying something that they don't agree with is quite literally considered a threat to their personal safety and therefore a brick tossed at your head in response to those threatening words is completely justified. 

 

This has been cultivated over decades, not weeks, months or the last 3.5 years. We are broken as a nation.

[SoCal Deek]

The video from Buffalo is disturbing of course, but what exactly does it have to do with Donald Trump? 

Edited June 5, 2020 by SoCal Deek

[GG]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

That tweet is somewhat misleading. Many don't think of opposing views as "violence" with the quotation marks. The quotes imply that in their thought process they are knowingly making this ridiculous leap and deep down don't really equate getting punched in the face with hearing opinions that oppose their own. But the truth is many of them actually do consider physical violence as no different than phrases, sentences or speeches that don't match their opinions. 

 

Saying something that they don't agree with is quite literally considered a threat to their personal safety and therefore a brick tossed at your head in response to those threatening words is completely justified. 

 

This has been cultivated over decades, not weeks, months or the last 3.5 years. We are broken as a nation.

Funny how words are violence, but smashing windows and breaking stuff is not.  

[Buffalo_Gal]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The video from Buffalo is disturbing of course, but what exactly does it have to do with Donald Trump? 

#OrangeManBad

The riots have been dying down in the news but expect more info today as the jobs numbers came out, and they were so  much better than expected it isn't even funny. Can't have that V recovery leading to a reelection.

 

[LB3]

21 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Its interesting to compare the sentiments shared in this thread to the thread covering the Hong Kong protests.

 

 

This was a nice apples to pumpkins comparison you threw out there yesterday. ?

[billsfan1959]

There are literally over a million violent crimes that take place in this country every year. On average, there are 14,000-15,000 murders each year. The majority of the victims of those murders are black men. Young black men are being murdered at a disproportionate rate. In a five year span (2015-2019), over 35,000 black citizens have been murdered. Over 32,000 of those black murder victims were men, mostly young black men. The overwhelming majority of them are killed by other black citizens.

 

As a society, we largely look away from it all. We don't hear black leaders or politicians giving impassioned speeches. We don't see protests and riots over the injustice.

 

Until a black man is killed by the police.

 

Of those 35,000 murdered, black citizens, approx 95% of those were killed by other black citizens. 1164 (3%) were killed by LE Officers. Of the over 32,000 of those black men that were murdered, approx 95% were killed by other black men. 1118 ((3%) were killed by LE Officers. 

 

Each year, over 6,400 black men are murdered and approx 223 (3%) of them are killed by LE Officers.

 

These are fairly constant numbers, much like all violent crime. 

 

When we see what happened to someone like George Floyd, then society cares. They momentarily look at it as a tragic death at the hands of some men who, at best, were absolutely indifferent to his suffering and death. Then, it is no longer about George Floyd. The situation is co-opted and manipulated to fit agendas and narratives. Anger is stoked, someone must be blamed, and they must pay the consequences. The law enforcement community becomes the embodiment of every injustice they perceive - regardless of what the facts actually say.

 

Then we finally have black leaders and politicians giving impassioned speeches, and society showing up in the streets to protest. They transfer responsibility and blame for their outrage onto good, decent men and women who do the best they can every single day.  Others will take more drastic measures and cities will burn, businesses with be looted and destroyed, people will be assaulted, and people will be killed. All in the name of police brutality and their racial hatred and targeting of the black race.

 

Meanwhile, blacks will still represent the majority of victims and offenders of violent crime in this country. Over 6,000 black men will be murdered again this year and 95% of them will be murdered by other black men.

 

And society will look the other way....

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Reality Check]

33 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

good, keep the the likes of you from out nice cities?

 

Listen, i am an urban dude, love the city..so much so my "beach house" is a condo in DC. Trying to downsize here in the suburbs of West End of Richmond, and move into the city right close to the Lee monument( well the pedastal at least)  ...i can tall ya this, home prices aint budged there yet.

 

The market forces aren't in play just yet because the economy is in the toilet. Long term trends of people leaving the cities are definitely in the cards. Trying to move now during this chaos in your particular area is entirely your business. I wish you luck, but I would have already left the suburbs long before this, which I have done before. When commercial properties crater, which will happen eventually, that is when I will be entering the commercial real estate market again. Then again, those commercial properties with the most upside won't be on the coasts, but along the Mississippi River system. The port cities will be on a steady decline for years to come. I do business in the DC area, it's beautiful, but there is no upside for me to live there. You are right of course. You are 100% correct. The coastal cities are clearly much better off without someone like me living there. You are fortunate to live in such a harmonious and peaceful place. I actually hope the trend continues.

15 minutes ago, GG said:

Funny how words are violence, but smashing windows and breaking stuff is not.  

It reminds of that South Park episode when there was a war on Imagination Land.

 

 

 

[Reality Check]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

This is a terrible thread with a lot of rioter-victim information:
 

 

 

I doubt anyone will march in protest for their lives lost. I guess they don't really matter.

19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

There are literally over a million violent crimes that take place in this country every year. On average, there are 14,000-15,000 murders each year. The majority of the victims of those murders are black men. Young black men are being murdered at a disproportionate rate. In a five year span (2015-2019), over 35,000 black citizens have been murdered. Over 32,000 of those black murder victims were men, mostly young black men. The overwhelming majority of them are killed by other black citizens.

 

As a society, we largely look away from it all. We don't hear black leaders or politicians giving impassioned speeches. We don't see protests and riots over the injustice.

 

Until a black man is killed by the police.

 

Of those 35,000 murdered, black citizens, approx 95% of those were killed by other black citizens. 1164 (3%) were killed by LE Officers. Of the over 32,000 of those black men that were murdered, approx 95% were killed by other black men. 1118 ((3%) were killed by LE Officers. 

 

Each year, over 6,400 black men are murdered and approx 223 (3%) of them are killed by LE Officers.

 

These are fairly constant numbers, much like all violent crime. 

 

When we see what happened to someone like George Floyd, then society cares. They momentarily look at it as a tragic death at the hands of some men who, at best, were absolutely indifferent to his suffering and death. Then, it is no longer about George Floyd. The situation is co-opted and manipulated to fit agendas and narratives. Anger is stoked, someone must be blamed, and they must pay the consequences. The law enforcement community becomes the embodiment of every injustice they perceive - regardless of what the facts actually say.

 

Then we finally have black leaders and politicians giving impassioned speeches, and society showing up in the streets to protest. They transfer responsibility and blame for their outrage onto good, decent men and women who do the best they can every single day.  Others will take more drastic measures and cities will burn, businesses with be looted and destroyed, people will be assaulted, and people will be killed. All in the name of police brutality and their racial hatred and targeting of the black race.

 

Meanwhile, blacks will still represent the majority of victims and offenders of violent crime in this country. Over 6,000 black men will be murdered again this year and 95% of them will be murdered by other black men.

 

And society will look the other way....

 

You lost me. Why would black people kill other black people?

[SectionC3]

41 minutes ago, Chandemonium said:

He clearly reaches out with his right hand at approximately waist height. I’m not saying he was making a play for the gun, in fact it seems like he probably wasn’t since he still had the phone, I’m just saying the cops can’t afford to have that same line of thinking and be wrong in a situation like that. 
 

My point is that it’s pretty clear that he no longer presents a threat when the guy is laying there in the fencing position literally bleeding out his ears. If you can’t see that we’ll have to agree to disagree I guess. 

 

Viewed through the prism of video I completely agree with you.  In real time I see that part of the encounter like the part where the officer pushed the protester.  If the officer gets the benefit of the doubt on pushing the guy (which may be the case) on the ground that the fast-moving situation might have been fairly characterized as a threat to officer safety, then I think you have to look at the part of the incident where the protester is on the ground through the same lens and ask why the police didn’t ensure that the guy who was a threat seconds earlier wasn’t completely eliminated as a threat (either through a zipcuff or through a quick inspection that confirmed the medical issue had eliminated any threat he may have posed).  

 

I don’t think we’re really disagreeing here.  We just see the video slightly differently.  Kind of like there might have been different perspectives on the ground yesterday. 

 

(*All of that said, the whole thing looks reprehensible to me and I have a hard time defending what the officer did.)

33 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

There are literally over a million violent crimes that take place in this country every year. On average, there are 14,000-15,000 murders each year. The majority of the victims of those murders are black men. Young black men are being murdered at a disproportionate rate. In a five year span (2015-2019), over 35,000 black citizens have been murdered. Over 32,000 of those black murder victims were men, mostly young black men. The overwhelming majority of them are killed by other black citizens.

 

As a society, we largely look away from it all. We don't hear black leaders or politicians giving impassioned speeches. We don't see protests and riots over the injustice.

 

Until a black man is killed by the police.

 

Of those 35,000 murdered, black citizens, approx 95% of those were killed by other black citizens. 1164 (3%) were killed by LE Officers. Of the over 32,000 of those black men that were murdered, approx 95% were killed by other black men. 1118 ((3%) were killed by LE Officers. 

 

Each year, over 6,400 black men are murdered and approx 223 (3%) of them are killed by LE Officers.

 

These are fairly constant numbers, much like all violent crime. 

 

When we see what happened to someone like George Floyd, then society cares. They momentarily look at it as a tragic death at the hands of some men who, at best, were absolutely indifferent to his suffering and death. Then, it is no longer about George Floyd. The situation is co-opted and manipulated to fit agendas and narratives. Anger is stoked, someone must be blamed, and they must pay the consequences. The law enforcement community becomes the embodiment of every injustice they perceive - regardless of what the facts actually say.

 

Then we finally have black leaders and politicians giving impassioned speeches, and society showing up in the streets to protest. They transfer responsibility and blame for their outrage onto good, decent men and women who do the best they can every single day.  Others will take more drastic measures and cities will burn, businesses with be looted and destroyed, people will be assaulted, and people will be killed. All in the name of police brutality and their racial hatred and targeting of the black race.

 

Meanwhile, blacks will still represent the majority of victims and offenders of violent crime in this country. Over 6,000 black men will be murdered again this year and 95% of them will be murdered by other black men.

 

And society will look the other way....

 

 

All of this is true, but it overlooks the point that people are pissed off because the person supposed to be protecting the public killed a member of the public in the Floyd incident.  That’s, of course, a very narrow view of what’s occurred here.  I see Floyd as a tipping point or a match for frustrations, mostly related to the indignities of life as a minority in this country but probably in some small part related to the frustration of the pandemic, and here we are today.  You do make a good point: we all need to chip in and be better in our own ways, whether it’s, among other things, being more aware of the indignities I mentioned and actually doing something about them, or being more proactive about the knuckleheads in our own community.  

 

I woke up curious about what you thought about the BPD incident from last night.  Any thoughts?

[Foxx]

10 hours ago, BillStime said:

Trump to police: 'Please don't be too nice' to suspects.

 

Thanks TRUMP - rough enough for you SOB?

 

You Trumpholes own this. You enabled this. Are you proud? Are we REALLY better off today than four years ago?

 

FU

so... using your logic if you spouted this crap off at me and i decided to punch you in your piehole, you own that, right. i mean, you enabled it.

 

idiot.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Foxx

[Tiberius]

36 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

There are literally over a million violent crimes that take place in this country every year. On average, there are 14,000-15,000 murders each year. The majority of the victims of those murders are black men. Young black men are being murdered at a disproportionate rate. In a five year span (2015-2019), over 35,000 black citizens have been murdered. Over 32,000 of those black murder victims were men, mostly young black men. The overwhelming majority of them are killed by other black citizens.

 

As a society, we largely look away from it all. We don't hear black leaders or politicians giving impassioned speeches. We don't see protests and riots over the injustice.

 

Until a black man is killed by the police.

 

Of those 35,000 murdered, black citizens, approx 95% of those were killed by other black citizens. 1164 (3%) were killed by LE Officers. Of the over 32,000 of those black men that were murdered, approx 95% were killed by other black men. 1118 ((3%) were killed by LE Officers. 

 

Each year, over 6,400 black men are murdered and approx 223 (3%) of them are killed by LE Officers.

 

These are fairly constant numbers, much like all violent crime. 

 

When we see what happened to someone like George Floyd, then society cares. They momentarily look at it as a tragic death at the hands of some men who, at best, were absolutely indifferent to his suffering and death. Then, it is no longer about George Floyd. The situation is co-opted and manipulated to fit agendas and narratives. Anger is stoked, someone must be blamed, and they must pay the consequences. The law enforcement community becomes the embodiment of every injustice they perceive - regardless of what the facts actually say.

 

Then we finally have black leaders and politicians giving impassioned speeches, and society showing up in the streets to protest. They transfer responsibility and blame for their outrage onto good, decent men and women who do the best they can every single day.  Others will take more drastic measures and cities will burn, businesses with be looted and destroyed, people will be assaulted, and people will be killed. All in the name of police brutality and their racial hatred and targeting of the black race.

 

Meanwhile, blacks will still represent the majority of victims and offenders of violent crime in this country. Over 6,000 black men will be murdered again this year and 95% of them will be murdered by other black men.

 

And society will look the other way....

 

Let's remember how the black community got that way. The legacy of slavery and segregation have really hurt the black community. Trapped in crowded areas with less job opportunities, and a hostile police force it created caldron of trouble and people react and lash out. The Civil Rights movement got rid of the worst abuses but a community so brutalized, separated and marginalized doesn't just recover like that. 

[Tiberius]

The American Civil Liberties Union of the District of Columbia on Thursday announced it was filing a lawsuitarising from events on Monday: “Protesters who were attacked with tear gas and other weapons by federal troops in front of the White House Monday evening as they were demonstrating against police brutality sued President Donald Trump, Attorney General William Barr, and numerous other federal officials today for violating their constitutional rights and engaging in an unlawful conspiracy to violate those rights,” the news release explained. Filed on behalf of Black Lives Matter and specific protesters, the lawsuit was jointly filed with the Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs, Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, and the law firm of Arnold & Porter.

[Reality Check]

More good news.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/minneapolis-city-council-mulls-plan-abolish-police-department-ninth-night-demonstrations

 

 

[Tiberius]

The lawsuit is straightforward, alleging that “President Trump, Attorney General Barr, and other administration officials violated the protesters First and Fourth Amendment rights, as well as engaged in a conspiracy to deny those rights. The lawsuit seeks on order barring the officials from repeating the unlawful activities, and damages for the injuries plaintiff’s sustained.” The plaintiffs recite the facts known to millions of Americans:

 

Without provocation, Defendants directed their agents in the U.S. Secret Service, U.S. Park Police, D.C. National Guard, and U.S. Military Police to fire tear gas, pepper spray capsules, rubber bullets and flash bombs into the crowd to shatter the peaceful gathering, forcing demonstrators to flee the area. Many peaceful demonstrators were injured, some severely, by this unprovoked attack.

Defendants had no legitimate basis to assault the peaceable gathering. Their professed purpose — to clear the area to permit the President to walk to a photo opportunity at a nearby church — was a wholly illegal reason for abridging the constitutional rights of Plaintiffs and the others assembled in Lafayette Square. Indeed, the President has consistently demonstrated hostility towards viewpoints different than his own, and in the days and moments leading up to the attack, expressed his intent to violently attack protesters and “dominate” them.

[bdutton]

11 hours ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

 

How the hell does that happen in this community? They push the man and refuse aid after he is unconscious and bleeding from the skull. Wow.

Watch the video... the police called in for a medic immediately and about 10 seconds later you see men in camo provide aid.

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, bdutton said:

Watch the video... the police called in for a medic immediately and about 10 seconds later you see men in camo provide aid.

Yeah, but the first video looks worse. We'll go with that!


Honestly? The cop who started to bend down to help being pulled away by the second cop is a terrible look. Simply awful. It takes watching the second video to see the camo guys immediately assisting.
 

[bdutton]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Yeah, but the first video looks worse. We'll go with that!


Honestly? The cop who started to bend down to help being pulled away by the second cop is a terrible look. Simply awful. It takes watching the second video to see the camo guys immediately assisting.
 

They had protesters directly in front of them (which was taken into custody) which was a focus due to the threat they were facing.  The cop in charge called it in and got aid to the old man.  The cop got suspended without pay.  The full video shows he acted responsibly.

[billsfan1959]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Let's remember how the black community got that way. The legacy of slavery and segregation have really hurt the black community. Trapped in crowded areas with less job opportunities, and a hostile police force it created caldron of trouble and people react and lash out. The Civil Rights movement got rid of the worst abuses but a community so brutalized, separated and marginalized doesn't just recover like that. 

 

I don't dismiss at all how the black communities, in almost every city, arrived at the state they are in. That was not the point of my post at all.

 

The fact is, there are many reasons that black communities are disproportionately suffering and if you were to honestly list the reasons, law enforcemnent would be no where near the top of that list. You refer to the police in the black community as a "hostile police force." Make no mistake about it, hostilities in the black communities between residents and police go both ways and there is culpability on both sides. And, any aggressive violence on the part of police officers don't represent the entire force any more than aggressive violence on the part of black residents represent the whole community.

 

I don't discount the history of this country regarding blacks - at all. It is all too real and much of it in the not too distant past. Black communities have been suffering for years and years while politicians on both sides refuse to do anything to actually help. Anger and frustration is real and where is it easiest for that anger and frustration to manifest? In interactions within the communities with the only ones there who are from outsided the community and an easy representative of everything that angers them: law enforcement.

 

Blacks in this country have an an entire history that has shaped their perceptions. I acknowledge that and believe those perceptions should be openly and honestly discussed. But all sides have to be open to their own responsibilities and culpabilities. It can't be driven by political agendas or pathological self-interests.

 

You can dismantle or reform every law enforcement agency in this country to the degree you wish. Every problem in the black communities, their frustrations, and their anger  will still exist.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, bdutton said:

They had protesters directly in front of them (which was taken into custody) which was a focus due to the threat they were facing.  The cop in charge called it in and got aid to the old man.  The cop got suspended without pay.  The full video shows he acted responsibly.

Yeah, the fact that the man was older and head wounds bleed a lot really made for a horrible, short video.  The second video added much more to the story. I would guess the news crews got even more of the encounter.