Nelius Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: But come on man. Ya gotta give me props for my Nelius Fasc-O-Meter. It's what broke me tbh. Took a breath and cracked a beer. Kudos. I'm pissed though. Other people are pissed. I'm not out there because I have a kid but I'm watching everything and am not coming away with a good view of the police (typically live streams, so cool your jets conspiracy theory anti-media weirdos). Even your statement about how the old man should have known better. Isn't that part of the problem? Shouldn't a harmless old man be able to approach the police? We've gone from "never mess with the police because they may kill you" to "don't even approach police because they may kill you". 1
Reality Check Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said: I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived. What are the odds that there is a protest in his name? 1
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: It was unnecessary. Totally out of character for that cop. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the name plate. He’s probably going to get fired, and that’s too bad. But he did not have to hit the guy. At all. Hit the guy? I watched that several times. He didn’t hit him. 1
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: And it wasn’t even what would consider a forceful shove. It was more of a “move along”. And I do agree to leave him lying there was real bad. Aaron’s a pretty strong guy and he gave it to the citizen pretty well from what I saw.
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Magox said: Im not a lawyer, but something. He shouldn’t have been pushed considering his age and that he wasn’t a threat. They may not have intended to injure him but they did. Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer.
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: Hit the guy? I watched that several times. He didn’t hit him. Agree to disagree. We’re arguing semantics. It was an application of force.
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived. In the video I posted, the national guard guys immediately attended to him. They were at the back of the pack.
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Nelius said: It's what broke me tbh. Took a breath and cracked a beer. Kudos. That’s about all I’m good for here. ?
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer. The last paragraph is victim blaming. Sorry but it is. The citizen probably shouldn’t have been there, but that doesn’t justify what happened. (Audio may tell a different tale, but I highly doubt it since the citizen was left in place after falling. A threat would have been neutralized there.)
4merper4mer Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, SectionC3 said: It got there pretty quickly thereafter. That part looked worse than it actually was. Just no need to hit the guy whatsoever. That was not protect and serve. I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation. He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable. My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop. Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state. 1
Reality Check Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Doe anyone know why they pushed Joe Biden to the ground like that? There had to be a reason. 1
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said: In the video I posted, the national guard guys immediately attended to him. They were at the back of the pack. I think they were states, but point is you’re right about prompt medical attention.
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Aaron’s a pretty strong guy and he gave it to the citizen pretty well from what I saw. I watched it several times. It didn’t look that forceful to me. Again devil’s advocate. I don’t care how old you are. You do not approach a cop likely in a stressful situation and reach out to him. 1
Reality Check Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said: I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation. He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable. My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop. Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state. It would have been fine if the next move was to inject him with a mandatory vaccine. 2
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, 4merper4mer said: I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation. He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable. My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop. Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state. He’s a public employee engaged in alleged public misconduct so the name is coming out. As for his fascism, I haven’t dealt with the guy in probably 15 years, but he is absolutely not what I would call any kind of extremist. When I knew him he was a very, very good person. I have no reason to believe that to be untrue today.
Magox Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer. Im not sure but it was unnecessary roughing. Maybe a 15 yard penalty. 1
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: I watched it several times. It didn’t look that forceful to me. Again devil’s advocate. I don’t care how old you are. You do not approach a cop likely in a stressful situation and reach out to him. Problem is that the use of force has to be justified. I just don’t see it there. If the guy was threatening officers he should have been dealt with immediately after he fell to resolve the threat.
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Magox said: Im not sure but it was unnecessary roughing. Maybe a 15 yard penalty. Could have been worse. The cop could have been “givin him the business down there ” after he fell to the ground. Edited June 5, 2020 by Chef Jim 1
Nelius Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, SectionC3 said: Problem is that the use of force has to be justified. I just don’t see it there. If the guy was threatening officers he should have been dealt with immediately after he fell to resolve the threat. I'm more grossed out by the way they just all walk past him, regardless of level of force. I don't know, maybe there's protocol or something in terms of waiting for a medic that I'm overlooking, but it damn sure looks like they continue to treat him, and then ignore him, as an agitator after he starts bleeding out of his ears. 1
SectionC3 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: Could have been worse. The cop could have been “givin him the business” after he fell to the ground. Marty Lyons retired a long time ago! Just now, Nelius said: I'm more grossed out by the way they just all walk past him, regardless of level of force. I don't know, maybe there's protocol or something in terms of waiting for a medic that I'm overlooking, but it damn sure looks like they continue to treat him, and then ignore him, as an agitator after he starts bleeding out of his ears. The medics got there pretty quickly. I don’t blame them for not breaking the line to treat. But if he was an aggressor they should have neutralized him with cuffs or restraint. Not a good look for the BPD.
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