Liberal Protests

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

[Magox]

My my my.

 

Well what do you know?

 

 

 

For the record, I don't want the US military to have to do this.  But if local and state governments cannot protect their citizens and communities, then this is the rational response.

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

No, actually I don't live under a rock. I can easily acknowledge genuine concerns on the part of the black community and the perceptions they have. I have actually written posts to this exact point, if you care to go back and read them. 

 

I am simply asking you to specifically state what you think the problem is and what are your supporting facts?

 

That is a fair question and an open invitation to honest dialogue.

 

Will you accept?

 

I'm going to try and not write you an essay so I'll keep it as short as I can.

 

I think many of the issues afflicting the black community are also faced by people of other backgrounds, including whites. I think the US is set up to hold down the poor and protect the interests of the wealthy. Overtime, these issues appear to have become worse and worse as the rich have had their tax burden reduced for the past 40 years, the poor and middle class have had to pick up the slack. The wealthy and corporations hold way too much power over politicians because of the money they contribute to their campaigns. People in this situation lack education, and ultimately opportunities that are provided to people from higher income brackets and a cycle of poverty takes hold that many people cannot escape. This has been caused by both conservative and liberal ideals. I think conservative tax policies, and trickle down economics are a complete failure, and I think liberal social policies have often wound up being overkill, doing more harm than good to promote the poor's opportunities. More power needs to be given back to the people. 

 

I think the two party system is a joke for 330 million people. Two parties cannot accurately represent the interests of such a large population. 

 

Regarding poverty, I don't care where you come from. If you lack hope an opportunity, it doesn't matter if you're from urban Chicago, rural Mississippi, Mexico or Iraq. You're going to be drawn towards bad things because you have nothing better to do. Whether it's a gang, a white supremacist group, someone crossing the border illegally or an Islamic terrorist organization like ISIS, if you're in horrendous poverty with no way out because you have no job prospects to better yourself, you're going to look for people to blame and break laws because you're desperate, and I think that's what winds up happening all over the US and across much of the world. 

 

For blacks, all of the data is true. Crime is higher, murder rates are higher, etc. As a result they get profiled by police and civilians, and have way more run ins with law enforcement than other demographic groups. I think creating more accountability among cops is a great place to start right now. Make body cams a requirement, and refer all deaths and major injuries while in police custody to an independent 3rd party to review. No more cops policing cops. 

I also think the militarization of the police needs to end. Cops don't look like cops anymore. They look like they're patrolling the streets of Baghdad. Tone down the uniforms, and make them more approachable. Change policing policies so that police have to carry an active role in the communities they serve, possibly through mandatory community service initiatives. Cops need to know community leaders and establish relationships with the people they're policing. If they can't do that then they can't be cops in this environment. 

 

Ultimately I think poverty is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed in America. Richest country in the history of the world and millions of people still go to bed hungry every night. Do more to pick up the low and middle class at the expense of the super rich and I think you'll see less crime all over the country. Give people more opportunities by putting more money in their pockets. Let them live better lives.

 

The world economy is rapidly changing. Artificial intelligence will make millions of jobs obsolete over the coming decade. If you drive a truck, a taxi, serve food, drive a bus, etc, your job will eventually be replaced by a machine. I think guaranteed universal basic income is an interesting concept, otherwise more and more people are going to slip into poverty due to a lack of training and education, which will just make everything worse. The least educated will continue to lose opportunities as technology progresses which will lead to more crime and poverty. 

 

Those are my ideas off the top of my head. Maybe they're right or maybe they're wrong. I don't really know.

 

I'm off to take my daughter for a walk. Will return later to see how you don't agree with anything I've said.

[Buffalo_Gal]

More "peaceful protests"
 

 

Police: Man Dies After Attempting To Break Into North Philadelphia ATM With Explosives, Several ATMs Destroyed Overnight (the video at the link explains the protests)
 

Police are investigating a series of ATM explosions after several loud booms were heard throughout Philadelphia overnight. In all, police say vandals tried to blow up 10 ATMs, and a botched attempt left one person dead Tuesday morning.
 

</snip>

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

More "peaceful protests"
 

 

Police: Man Dies After Attempting To Break Into North Philadelphia ATM With Explosives, Several ATMs Destroyed Overnight (the video at the link explains the protests)
 

Police are investigating a series of ATM explosions after several loud booms were heard throughout Philadelphia overnight. In all, police say vandals tried to blow up 10 ATMs, and a botched attempt left one person dead Tuesday morning.
 

</snip>

 

If Philadelphia burned to the ground, it'd be an improvement.

 

[Warren Zevon]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If Philadelphia burned to the ground, it'd be an improvement.

 

 

The is the attitude of a rioter - I'm telling Trump on you, Antifa!!!!!!!!

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm going to try and not write you an essay so I'll keep it as short as I can.

 

I think many of the issues afflicting the black community are also faced by people of other backgrounds, including whites. I think the US is set up to hold down the poor and protect the interests of the wealthy. Overtime, these issues appear to have become worse and worse as the rich have had their tax burden reduced for the past 40 years, the poor and middle class have had to pick up the slack. The wealthy and corporations hold way too much power over politicians because of the money they contribute to their campaigns. People in this situation lack education, and ultimately opportunities that are provided to people from higher income brackets and a cycle of poverty takes hold that many people cannot escape. This has been caused by both conservative and liberal ideals. I think conservative tax policies, and trickle down economics are a complete failure, and I think liberal social policies have often wound up being overkill, doing more harm than good to promote the poor's opportunities. More power needs to be given back to the people. 

 

I think the two party system is a joke for 330 million people. Two parties cannot accurately represent the interests of such a large population. 

 

Regarding poverty, I don't care where you come from. If you lack hope an opportunity, it doesn't matter if you're from urban Chicago, rural Mississippi, Mexico or Iraq. You're going to be drawn towards bad things because you have nothing better to do. Whether it's a gang, a white supremacist group, someone crossing the border illegally or an Islamic terrorist organization like ISIS, if you're in horrendous poverty with no way out because you have no job prospects to better yourself, you're going to look for people to blame and break laws because you're desperate, and I think that's what winds up happening all over the US and across much of the world. 

 

For blacks, all of the data is true. Crime is higher, murder rates are higher, etc. As a result they get profiled by police and civilians, and have way more run ins with law enforcement than other demographic groups. I think creating more accountability among cops is a great place to start right now. Make body cams a requirement, and refer all deaths and major injuries while in police custody to an independent 3rd party to review. No more cops policing cops. 

I also think the militarization of the police needs to end. Cops don't look like cops anymore. They look like they're patrolling the streets of Baghdad. Tone down the uniforms, and make them more approachable. Change policing policies so that police have to carry an active role in the communities they serve, possibly through mandatory community service initiatives. Cops need to know community leaders and establish relationships with the people they're policing. If they can't do that then they can't be cops in this environment. 

 

Ultimately I think poverty is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed in America. Richest country in the history of the world and millions of people still go to bed hungry every night. Do more to pick up the low and middle class at the expense of the super rich and I think you'll see less crime all over the country. Give people more opportunities by putting more money in their pockets. Let them live better lives.

 

The world economy is rapidly changing. Artificial intelligence will make millions of jobs obsolete over the coming decade. If you drive a truck, a taxi, serve food, drive a bus, etc, your job will eventually be replaced by a machine. I think guaranteed universal basic income is an interesting concept, otherwise more and more people are going to slip into poverty due to a lack of training and education, which will just make everything worse. The least educated will continue to lose opportunities as technology progresses which will lead to more crime and poverty. 

 

Those are my ideas off the top of my head. Maybe they're right or maybe they're wrong. I don't really know.

 

I'm off to take my daughter for a walk. Will return later to see how you don't agree with anything I've said.

 

In all sincerity, thank you for the reply. Just a cursory glance tells me I agree with a number of things you have written and disagree with a number of things. I also have to run to get some work done. However, I wanted to say I appreciate the response and I will respond in kind.

[LB3]

There it is. I have been waiting for that. The only thing that will solve systematic oppression is socialism. I think we've reached riot edition Bingo!

[Magox]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm going to try and not write you an essay so I'll keep it as short as I can.

 

I think many of the issues afflicting the black community are also faced by people of other backgrounds, including whites. I think the US is set up to hold down the poor and protect the interests of the wealthy. Overtime, these issues appear to have become worse and worse as the rich have had their tax burden reduced for the past 40 years, the poor and middle class have had to pick up the slack. The wealthy and corporations hold way too much power over politicians because of the money they contribute to their campaigns. People in this situation lack education, and ultimately opportunities that are provided to people from higher income brackets and a cycle of poverty takes hold that many people cannot escape. This has been caused by both conservative and liberal ideals. I think conservative tax policies, and trickle down economics are a complete failure, and I think liberal social policies have often wound up being overkill, doing more harm than good to promote the poor's opportunities. More power needs to be given back to the people. 

 

I think the two party system is a joke for 330 million people. Two parties cannot accurately represent the interests of such a large population. 

 

Regarding poverty, I don't care where you come from. If you lack hope an opportunity, it doesn't matter if you're from urban Chicago, rural Mississippi, Mexico or Iraq. You're going to be drawn towards bad things because you have nothing better to do. Whether it's a gang, a white supremacist group, someone crossing the border illegally or an Islamic terrorist organization like ISIS, if you're in horrendous poverty with no way out because you have no job prospects to better yourself, you're going to look for people to blame and break laws because you're desperate, and I think that's what winds up happening all over the US and across much of the world. 

 

For blacks, all of the data is true. Crime is higher, murder rates are higher, etc. As a result they get profiled by police and civilians, and have way more run ins with law enforcement than other demographic groups. I think creating more accountability among cops is a great place to start right now. Make body cams a requirement, and refer all deaths and major injuries while in police custody to an independent 3rd party to review. No more cops policing cops. 

I also think the militarization of the police needs to end. Cops don't look like cops anymore. They look like they're patrolling the streets of Baghdad. Tone down the uniforms, and make them more approachable. Change policing policies so that police have to carry an active role in the communities they serve, possibly through mandatory community service initiatives. Cops need to know community leaders and establish relationships with the people they're policing. If they can't do that then they can't be cops in this environment. 

 

Ultimately I think poverty is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed in America. Richest country in the history of the world and millions of people still go to bed hungry every night. Do more to pick up the low and middle class at the expense of the super rich and I think you'll see less crime all over the country. Give people more opportunities by putting more money in their pockets. Let them live better lives.

 

The world economy is rapidly changing. Artificial intelligence will make millions of jobs obsolete over the coming decade. If you drive a truck, a taxi, serve food, drive a bus, etc, your job will eventually be replaced by a machine. I think guaranteed universal basic income is an interesting concept, otherwise more and more people are going to slip into poverty due to a lack of training and education, which will just make everything worse. The least educated will continue to lose opportunities as technology progresses which will lead to more crime and poverty. 

 

Those are my ideas off the top of my head. Maybe they're right or maybe they're wrong. I don't really know.

 

I'm off to take my daughter for a walk. Will return later to see how you don't agree with anything I've said.

 

At least you thought this out.  I disagree with some of it but in spirit I think we are at least in the same ball park.

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you're more upset about Trump standing in front of a church than arsonists setting fire to it...

 

To be fair— when I imagined all the dystopian possibilities when this man was elected I never thought “100,000 dead AND he turned the military on us” but here we are... 

Trump is an evil man. He is not a Christian. He makes a mockery of faith. He doesn’t know prayer or our customs but he stood in front of a church and held a Bible upside down and behaved abominably. Trump supporters are not following a Godly man. But you love getting conned.

 

 

[bilzfancy]

6 minutes ago, LB3 said:

There it is. I have been waiting for that. The only thing that will solve systematic oppression is socialism. I think we've reached riot edition Bingo!

Most of us already know that's the lefts end game, socialism, it's why Senile Joe is aligning himself with Sanders, Warren and the biggest moron of all, AOC

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

To be fair— when I imagined all the dystopian possibilities when this man was elected I never thought “100,000 dead AND he turned the military on us” but here we are... 

Trump is an evil man. He is not a Christian. He makes a mockery of faith. He doesn’t know prayer or our customs but he stood in front of a church and held a Bible upside down and behaved abominably. Trump supporters are not following a Godly man. But you love getting conned.

 

 

 

Our?

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAH

 

[Big Blitz]

23 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm going to try and not write you an essay so I'll keep it as short as I can.

 

I think many of the issues afflicting the black community are also faced by people of other backgrounds, including whites. I think the US is set up to hold down the poor and protect the interests of the wealthy. Overtime, these issues appear to have become worse and worse as the rich have had their tax burden reduced for the past 40 years, the poor and middle class have had to pick up the slack. The wealthy and corporations hold way too much power over politicians because of the money they contribute to their campaigns. People in this situation lack education, and ultimately opportunities that are provided to people from higher income brackets and a cycle of poverty takes hold that many people cannot escape. This has been caused by both conservative and liberal ideals. I think conservative tax policies, and trickle down economics are a complete failure, and I think liberal social policies have often wound up being overkill, doing more harm than good to promote the poor's opportunities. More power needs to be given back to the people. 

 

I think the two party system is a joke for 330 million people. Two parties cannot accurately represent the interests of such a large population. 

 

Regarding poverty, I don't care where you come from. If you lack hope an opportunity, it doesn't matter if you're from urban Chicago, rural Mississippi, Mexico or Iraq. You're going to be drawn towards bad things because you have nothing better to do. Whether it's a gang, a white supremacist group, someone crossing the border illegally or an Islamic terrorist organization like ISIS, if you're in horrendous poverty with no way out because you have no job prospects to better yourself, you're going to look for people to blame and break laws because you're desperate, and I think that's what winds up happening all over the US and across much of the world. 

 

For blacks, all of the data is true. Crime is higher, murder rates are higher, etc. As a result they get profiled by police and civilians, and have way more run ins with law enforcement than other demographic groups. I think creating more accountability among cops is a great place to start right now. Make body cams a requirement, and refer all deaths and major injuries while in police custody to an independent 3rd party to review. No more cops policing cops. 

I also think the militarization of the police needs to end. Cops don't look like cops anymore. They look like they're patrolling the streets of Baghdad. Tone down the uniforms, and make them more approachable. Change policing policies so that police have to carry an active role in the communities they serve, possibly through mandatory community service initiatives. Cops need to know community leaders and establish relationships with the people they're policing. If they can't do that then they can't be cops in this environment. 

 

Ultimately I think poverty is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed in America. Richest country in the history of the world and millions of people still go to bed hungry every night. Do more to pick up the low and middle class at the expense of the super rich and I think you'll see less crime all over the country. Give people more opportunities by putting more money in their pockets. Let them live better lives.

 

The world economy is rapidly changing. Artificial intelligence will make millions of jobs obsolete over the coming decade. If you drive a truck, a taxi, serve food, drive a bus, etc, your job will eventually be replaced by a machine. I think guaranteed universal basic income is an interesting concept, otherwise more and more people are going to slip into poverty due to a lack of training and education, which will just make everything worse. The least educated will continue to lose opportunities as technology progresses which will lead to more crime and poverty. 

 

Those are my ideas off the top of my head. Maybe they're right or maybe they're wrong. I don't really know.

 

I'm off to take my daughter for a walk. Will return later to see how you don't agree with anything I've said.

 

 

No it's a good post.  I agree with about half of it.  

 

The problem with UI is that people don't just work, and many who work the hours they do just to pay bills and put food on the table.  They work because that gives them purpose and the feeling of value.  

 

Since the far left has mocked hard work and has considered the American dream a punchline, I really can't have that conversation with them.  

 

Sane people know the opportunities you have in this country are like none on the planet.  

 

Play by the rules.

 

Get your high school diploma 

 

Go to college---- and in this "racist" country we have for decades helped get more and more minorities into these incredibly racist institutions where for decades their professors trash the country and the evil white man. 

 

Get married, stay married (I know this is hard, but if it works out your odds and your kids improve if it does).  Don't have kids out of wedlock would help.

 

Done.  We can't all be "rich."  But we all can make it and make our lives better than we are misled to believe.  Too many have grown up especially in the last 30 years thinking we're the problem.  No. The Democrat party in bed with the media becoming full on globalist commies lying to you about what it's really like in America is the problem.

 

  

 

I live on a street in a neighborhood in a suburb in Virginia that is at least 40% minority.  Its one of the wealthiest counties in America (I'm not btw but my wife and I have done ok).  How did this happen in such a racist country let alone Virginia----especially before it was taken over by Gov Blackface and the Commies out of Fairfax.    

 

So when these Antifa lunatics talk about "coming for the suburbs" those idiots are so unwoke they don't even understand they'll be destroying the homes or businesses of African Americans who worked hard and made it in order to get out of the disaster in our inner cities so they could give their kids a better life.  Unwoke racist lib elites.  They have no clue.  

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

[Westside]

23 minutes ago, Magox said:

My my my.

 

Well what do you know?

 

 

 

For the record, I don't want the US military to have to do this.  But if local and state governments cannot protect their citizens and communities, then this is the rational response.

Yeah but they are so peaceful!!

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, bilzfancy said:

Most of us already know that's the lefts end game, socialism, it's why Senile Joe is aligning himself with Sanders, Warren and the biggest moron of all, AOC

 

I don’t agree with AOC’s politics, but she knocked out the guy who probably was going to be the next Speaker of the House and got herself into Congress.  You, by contrast, are just another guy on an Internet message board.  I’m not much more removed from that myself. So she deserves some credit there.  

[muppy]

4 hours ago, RealKayAdams said:

I’ve been reading many pages of this thread with a deep sense of sadness over what’s happening to our country. A lot of good points are being made, but I wanted to add another perspective here that hasn’t been mentioned: the leadership void within the progressive left wing of the Democratic Party. Specifically Bernie Sanders, who is still the de facto leader of the movement. The youth and various left-leaning movements like antifa and possibly BLM are predominantly instigating the rioting, the looting, and the violence. In this way, Bernie may have a larger influence on controlling the direction of the unrest than any other politician right now, including Trump and Biden. What I would like Sanders to do is to publicly praise all of the PEACEFUL protesting in honor of George Floyd while simultaneously condemning parts of the left for their destructive behavior. Additionally, I’d like Bernie to call for new national legislation in the following 5 areas: police conduct reform, mandatory oversight of law enforcement institutions from neutral third parties, increased mental health services for police officers, an end to the war on drugs (or at least marijuana) that disproportionately hampers blacks, and broad changes to the pipeline that connects our interventionist foreign policy and the increasing militarization of our domestic police force.

 

An aside on antifa: I ran into a few of these folks during my 2016+2020 Bernie campaign volunteering efforts (and also during some of my animal rights activism activities). Or at least I think I did, judging by their clothes, tattoos, and conversations. They were not very helpful, to put it mildly, when it came to canvassing. They didn’t come across as interested in the political process very much. Violence and delegitimizing American institutions are known to be their primary focus. There is no uniform political philosophy that they subscribe to, beyond anything that is “anti-fascist.” Most are either communists, hard socialists, anarchists, or short-term social democrats with long-term goals of pushing the country beyond capitalism. I suppose that would be a unifying political philosophy of theirs if they actually have one: anti-capitalism. They are politically to the extreme left and much further left than Bernie’s platform of mainstream European-style social democracy. I don’t personally know much at all about their organizational structure, though I do hear rumors from sources close to the scene that they are well-connected at the local level and have contact with other local cells around the country. It is not a top-down organization, but I would not be surprised at all to later learn they were being funded by higher-up Soros types and that they had been nationally coordinating for these riots all along.  

 

Quote

So here is my message for my left-leaning friends on this message board: it’s well past time for some deep self-reflection and impositions of quality control on our political side. Are we advancing public policy? Are we helping to defeat Donald Trump by persuading independents and energizing the base?

Are we changing the hearts and minds of those that fuel American institutional racism? “No,” “no,” and “no” would be my answers at this very moment.

Quote

How can we change course? Well for starters, let’s start acting rationally again. Emphatically call out the looting and the rioting. Castigate antifa. Stop suspecting Russia for everything. Stop fixating on the random annoying minutiae of Trump’s speeches or behavior and start focusing on the deeper issues that plague the country. I’d also stop apologizing for Biden’s shortcomings and demand he step up to the plate as a leader during these recent crises (or step aside at the convention).

 

That’s all I have to say on this subject for now. I think I need a small break from news and politics. I originally figured this type of violence and senseless destruction could erupt around the Democratic convention if Bernie lost or following the November election if Trump won. But with the pandemic quarantine restlessness, deep economic anxieties from the pandemic fallout and from failed neoliberal policies, the rising pre-summer heat, and of course George Floyd’s murder…here we are. It may likely get much worse, too, before things eventually get much better. Please stay safe, everyone.

very thoughtful thank you for this. To what I quoted firstly I agree that the democratic side isn't advancing public policy in any meaningful way. Its like those who aren't trump supporters are sitting back and letting his actions speak for themselves..in  other words depending on the vote to be anti Trump based vs Pro Biden. Thats very clear to me. At least up to now. The pandemic put a halt to much of politics as usual and now these demonstrations/riots have taken focus from what should be time spent on political issues pertaining to november 2020. Biden made a speech today I haven't heard it yet Im curious as to what he had to say.

 

To the second quote I cant believe there are rational law abiding people who are applauding looting, police being iniured and killed. Antifa is seen as a contributing factor  to escalated peaceful demonstration to violence and looting, arrest those aholes and lock them under the jail as far as Im concerned. To stop fixating on Trump and focus on real issues is a great point if he would quit with his tweetstorms and trolling the other side it doesnt help and neither side is going to back down and act maturely and rationally about anything but the last tweet.. Thats what I think. So much tit for tat useless rhetoric name calling  opinion bashing all over political forums and political dialogue.  Bidens a pedo, Trump a rapist, Bidens senile, Trump  has dementia, Biden is old, Trump is fat..on and on and on and on and on. Its a feeding frenzy of useless banter...no end in sight. And very likely to get worse especially leading to and up to the election.   No Im not a troll, no Im not the smartest nor most politically saavy person in this forum Im prettynovice but I do care , I do love my country and not being a Trump supporter doesnt preclude that. Now flame away its what you all like to do....

[BillStime]

7 minutes ago, bilzfancy said:

Most of us already know that's the lefts end game, socialism, it's why Senile Joe is aligning himself with Sanders, Warren and the biggest moron of all, AOC

A+
 

Congrats - you have the Trump talking points down pat - you are the best.

 

PS: How was your Trump socialist check? 

[Warren Zevon]

2 minutes ago, BillStime said:

A+
 

Congrats - you have the Trump talking points down pat - you are the best.

 

PS: How was your Trump socialist check? 

 

He donated it to Black Lives Matter