B-Man Posted May 28, 2020 Author Posted May 28, 2020 Update: From the Associated Press. Fire crews responded to about 30 intentionally set blazes during the protests, including at least 16 structure fires, and multiple fire trucks were damaged by rocks and other projectiles, the fire department said. No one was hurt by the blazes.
SectionC3 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I think it is human nature to stand with someone you know and like when they do something wrong, no matter the profession. But there are distinctions and limits. There is no general pressure, as a law enforcement officer, to stand by and allow a fellow officer to cause the death of somebody. None. If it occurs in a specific situation, it is driven by the dynamics of that situation and those involved. I really cannot tell you why the other officers did not intervene. I could only see two officers in the video. My guess, if you are interested, is that, as it was transpiring, the gravity of the situation really didn't register with them. It is easier to see in hindsight. As for officers lives being ruined for testifying against fellow officers, if it happens, it is a rarity - particularly in a situation where an officer's actions were reckless or intentional and resulted in someone's death. I’m not at all defending any of the officers. From what the video shows, this was egregious, despicable, and utterly inexcusable. My guess is that crowd control probably was part of the calculus. I’m sure we’ll learn more in the days and weeks to come.
Orlando Buffalo Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: There's video footage that actually shows the 'other' officers. Two of them are down at Floyd's feet, also trying to constrain him. The fourth is standing at Floyd's head doing nothing. I'm guessing that Floyd was aggressively resisting arrest, but it still doesn't excuse the officer from kneeling on his throat. I have never been a cop but how hard it is to maintain control of a guy that is cuffed on his belly? I am sorry but I see no defense at all for what that cop did and he should be charged. 2
B-Man Posted May 28, 2020 Author Posted May 28, 2020 CAN WE BE SUED? When asked that question by countless reporters and editors, I reply that “any idiot can file a lawsuit. Filing a winning one is another story.” Here’s a case of a moronic lawsuit brought by some Seattle SJW’s who thought it was a novel idea to claim that Fox News should be treated like a defective product. The Washington state group known as the Washington League for Increased Transparency and Ethics, or WASHLITE, filed a suit in Superior Court of Washington State in April, calling for an injunction that would keep Fox News from “publishing further and false and deceptive content” about the coronavirus pandemic. The law has rejected this kind of idiocy multiple times, and I have litigated (and won) this issue before. Ideas can be wrong, but not “defective.” Here’s an example of one such case that explains it nicely. Fortunately, the court gets it right, quoting precedent in its ruling dismissing the case: “If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.” You don’t like Fox? Great, change the channel. You scared it will “teach” people the “wrong” ideas? That’s the most condescending, paternalistic elitism of the worst kind. by Charles Glasser
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, B-Man said: Update: From the Associated Press. Fire crews responded to about 30 intentionally set blazes during the protests, including at least 16 structure fires, and multiple fire trucks were damaged by rocks and other projectiles, the fire department said. No one was hurt by the blazes. ....The Ferguson Aftermath....$4.6 million of destruction....the solution, right?.....good Lord....... The following buildings burned completely or have been deemed unsafe (ST LOUIS BUSINESS JOURNAL): Dellwood: Juanita's Fashions R Boutique, at 9844 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $120,300) O'Reilly Auto Parts, at 9811 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $420,700) Hunan Chop Suey, at 9806 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $29,400) Title Max, at 9814 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $139,900) Conoco Gas Station, at 10280 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $98,100) AutoZone, at 9947 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $116,800) Advance Auto Parts, at 9846 West Florissant Ave. (burned, appraised value: $400,200) Prime Beauty Supply, at 1475 Chambers Road (burned, appraised value: $292,700) Ferguson: St. Louis Fish and Chicken, at 200 North Florissant Road (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $70,800) Little Caesars Pizza, at 220 North Florissant Road (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $6,500) Hidden Treasures, at 220 North Florissant Road (deemed unsafe, located on same property as Little Caesars Pizza) JC Wireless, at 9161 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $391,100) Beauty Town Plus, at 9163 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as JC Wireless) Synergy Counseling Service, at 9167 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as JC Wireless) A Better Choice Home Health Agency, at 9169 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as JC Wireless) #HealSTL, at 9171 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as JC Wireless) Yellow Diamond Boutique, at 9181 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $674,400) Clip Appeal, at 9183 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as Yellow Diamond Boutique) Crystal Nails, at 9185 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as Yellow Diamond Boutique) Daba Hair Braiding, at 9189 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, located on same property as Yellow Diamond Boutique) Public Storage, at 9291 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $696,600) BJ's Grill-Licious Backyard BBQ, at 9300 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $113,600) McDonald's, at 9131 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $734,200) Sam's Meat Market and More, at 9241 West Florissant Ave. (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $217,000) Family Dollar Store, at 10809 New Halls Ferry Road (deemed unsafe, appraised value: $102,300) Edited May 28, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy 1 1
billsfan1959 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I’m not at all defending any of the officers. From what the video shows, this was egregious, despicable, and utterly inexcusable. My guess is that crowd control probably was part of the calculus. I’m sure we’ll learn more in the days and weeks to come. Yeah, not defending them either. Just acknowledging there are a lot of variables involved with respect to the other officers (primarily the two officers at Floyd's feet). To me, Chauvin, the one with his knee on FLoyd's neck, and Thao, the one standing, are the officers whose complete (Chauvin) or primary (Thao) focus was on Floyd . They should have recognized the seriousness of FLoyd's complaints. But, we have to begin with the fact that there was absolutely no need for Chauvin to even apply that kind of force at all - much less for eight minutes. Floyd was down, handcuffed, and didn't represent any kind of a threat. From the time he was arrested and handcuffed, I never saw anything in Floyd's behavior, on the various videos to warrant what Chauvin was doing. I have already read that both Chauvin and Thao had histories of complaints and each had been sued. Thao's lawsuit included particularly brutal accusations and was settled out of court. Don't know the details of any of the complaints, so, I don't want to speculate too much. However, my initial sense of it is that it is less about race and more about the characters of Chauvin and Thao. Just a feeling. Like you said, we will be learning a whole lot more. Edited May 28, 2020 by billsfan1959 1
Royale with Cheese Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: There's video footage that actually shows the 'other' officers. Two of them are down at Floyd's feet, also trying to constrain him. The fourth is standing at Floyd's head doing nothing. I'm guessing that Floyd was aggressively resisting arrest, but it still doesn't excuse the officer from kneeling on his throat. That’s what I can’t figure out as well. He is in handcuffs, how many Officers does it take to keep a guy down with his hands behind his back? Marietta City Cops have been required to train in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for about a year. Im not saying that it should be required everywhere but they need to be trained better in restraining a guy. It shouldn’t take two guys on the legs and one on the neck to keep a handcuffed guy down. It’s embarrassing IMO. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Yeah, not defending them either. Just acknowledging there are a lot of variables involved with respect to the other officers (primarily the two officers at Floyd's feet). To me, Chauvin, the one with his knee on FLoyd's neck, and Thao, the one standing, are the officers whose complete (Chauvin) or primary (Thao) focus was on Floyd . They should have recognized the seriousness of FLoyd's complaints. But, we have to begin with the fact that there was absolutely no need for Chauvin to even apply that kind of force at all - much less for eight minutes. Floyd was down, handcuffed, and didn't represent any kind of a threat. From the time he was arrested and handcuffed, I never saw anything in Floyd's behavior, on the various videos to warrant what Chauvin was doing. I have already read that both Chauvin and Thao had histories of complaints and each had been sued. Thao's lawsuit included particularly brutal accusations and was settled out of court. Don't know the details of any of the complaints, so, I don't want to speculate too much. However, my initial sense of it is that it is less about race and more about the characters of Chauvin and Thao. Just a feeling. Like you said, we will be learning a whole lot more. ...I would think there is a ton of prosecutorial due diligence to be done, collaborating local, state and federal officials to get this right.....perhaps our fine TBD counsel Koko78 can weigh in......I'm guessing that an extensive review of the evidence is necessary to bring proper charges to fit the crime....and charges ARE forthcoming.......the damage of a flimsy case being presented to a jury with loopholes could or would lead to FAR worse civil unrest consequences.....not that it would make a damn bit of difference to the "looters" with a different purpose IMO.....
keepthefaith Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Well, investigations will be done and final judgement reserved for now but after looking at the 5 minute video many have seen, those cops look to be in deep *****. Can't see a reason why the officer knelt on George Floyd's neck for such a long period of time.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Just now, keepthefaith said: Well, investigations will be done and final judgement reserved for now but after looking at the 5 minute video many have seen, those cops look to be in deep *****. Can't see a reason why the officer knelt on George Floyd's neck for such a long period of time. ...there is NO reason IMO........and why the other three in attendance did not step in is more puzzling...BUT they sealed their complicity......perhaps aiding and abetting in a felony, hate crime or worse..but the riots and looting?......are we back to the 60's?...... 1
billsfan1959 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I would think there is a ton of prosecutorial due diligence to be done, collaborating local, state and federal officials to get this right.....perhaps our fine TBD counsel Koko78 can weigh in......I'm guessing that an extensive review of the evidence is necessary to bring proper charges to fit the crime....and charges ARE forthcoming.......the damage of a flimsy case being presented to a jury with loopholes could or would lead to FAR worse civil unrest consequences.....not that it would make a damn bit of difference to the "looters" with a different purpose IMO..... Things are often more complicated than they seem on the surface. I agree, charges are likely to be coming. However, they need to be the right charges, against the right officers, and need to be based on the facts and the law. 3
Royale with Cheese Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Well, investigations will be done and final judgement reserved for now but after looking at the 5 minute video many have seen, those cops look to be in deep *****. Can't see a reason why the officer knelt on George Floyd's neck for such a long period of time. I haven’t read it but a friend of me told me that he heard Floyd was basically lifeless at the 4 minute mark....meaning the Officer kept his knee on for almost another 4 minutes. How did he not feel Floyd go limp? It’s extremely easy to know when they are out. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Things are often more complicated than they seem on the surface. I agree, charges are likely to be coming. However, they need to be the right charges, against the right officers, and need to be based on the facts and the law. ....DEAD ON my friend........dot your "i's" and cross you "t's" in something as high profile, which it should be, as this.......time is necessary to get it right....BUT.......rest assured "professional rioters" are being bussed in as we speak......back in 2015 when I was commuting to Cleveland after my late wife's double lung transplant, there was a police trial involving officers and an African American juvenile death...hotels were besieged with bus load reservations and declined them when it became obvious.....probably Soros Travel and Terrorism funded for social upheaval...... 1
B-Man Posted May 28, 2020 Author Posted May 28, 2020 VERY GOOD NEWS............ Peaceful Black Protesters Shut Down Antifa After They Tried to Get Violent In Minnesota The violent group, known as “Antifa,” can often be found wherever a protest is happening, attempting to escalate the anger of protesters, encourage destruction, and often engages in violence. Since the protests in Minnesota over the unjust killing of George Floyd happened, you can bet Antifa has shown up. However, a group of actual black protesters isn’t letting them get violent. Standing in front of a police precinct, Townhall’s Julio Rosas arrived just in time to watch a black man speaking to a group of people. According to reports, the crowd that had gathered outside the police precinct was, for the most part, peaceful. White members of Antifa, however, began to attempt to do what they do and begin escalating the situation with violence. Before it got anywhere, a black man spoke up and addressed the crowd. He assured people that they aren’t trying to shut down anyone’s speech, but they weren’t going to allow anyone to start getting violent, understanding that if that started, the black members of the crowd would get the bulk of the response. “We’re going to keep our social distance, and we’re not going to allow somebody in the crowd to throw some bulls**t and then we feel the bulk of that,” said the man. “We’re not allowing that no more. That’s the reality of what we’re dealing with right now.” 1
reddogblitz Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...there is NO reason IMO........and why the other three in attendance did not step in is more puzzling...BUT they sealed their complicity......perhaps aiding and abetting in a felony, hate crime or worse..but the riots and looting?......are we back to the 60's?...... If it is determined to be murder, all 4 should be sent up the river. If you're out with your friends and one of them kills someone and you didn't stop it, you're going to the big house for murder. What's good for the goose ... 2
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, reddogblitz said: If it is determined to be murder, all 4 should be sent up the river. If you're out with your friends and one of them kills someone and you didn't stop it, you're going to the big house for murder. What's good for the goose ... ...I'm a dumb layperson, but it sure does seems the other three were complicit because they never intervened...... 2
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: If it is determined to be murder, all 4 should be sent up the river. If you're out with your friends and one of them kills someone and you didn't stop it, you're going to the big house for murder. What's good for the goose ... Accessories, yes. I expect it to happen. There's really no one defending the actions of those four. I haven't seen anyone, even the "far right" agitators on twitter who normally would have condemned them. 2
reddogblitz Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Accessories, yes. I expect it to happen. There's really no one defending the actions of those four. I haven't seen anyone, even the "far right" agitators on twitter who normally would have condemned them. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer but I have seen enough episodes of the First 48 and Joe Kenda to know if you are involved in a criminal enterprise (kneeling on a guy's neck til he dies) and you don't stop it, you are as guilty of murder as the trigger man (knee man). Edited May 28, 2020 by reddogblitz
SoCal Deek Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I have never been a cop but how hard it is to maintain control of a guy that is cuffed on his belly? I am sorry but I see no defense at all for what that cop did and he should be charged. I think that’s what I just said!
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