Dr. Who Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. I think you might be trying to assert an objective moral law --- you could assert this as a Kantian or follow the natural law tradition discoverable in Aquinas among others. I have a fair amount of sympathy for the natural law thesis, though there's no doubt that even if one grants it exists, it is not immediately self-evident and requires certain prerequisite beliefs as a foundation for it's rationality. (Granted, there are no ethics without at least an implicit metaphysics and first principles are not demonstrable, though one can intuit them.) C. S. Lewis wrote a book decades ago, The Abolition of Man, that argued for a perduring sense of morality transcendent of any particular culture. I think one can become so deracinated and cut off from communal relations that foundational experiences necessary to recognize an objective moral law are lacking. And, of course, in a meritricious, decadent society, sophists gain control of the modes of education and youth begin ignorant and end in entrenched ideology that blinds them to any substantial understanding of reality. Truth as transcendent purchase on an objectivity that cannot simply be written out of existence by human fiat is pretty much the opposite of cancel "culture." 1 2
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: Right so go off the cartoon the implication is that the pulling down of Columbus' statue leads to Communism could you tell me how? So you're of the opinion that morality is subjective? Guess what. Some of the things you are doing now will be considered abhorrent 150 years from today. 2
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. How can this be if human social development disagrees with it?
Warcodered Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: If that’s true, then show me how this “intrinsic morality” has existed unchanged throughout time. Give me philosophers, or literature, or any minds that cross the chasm of history all citing the same intrinsic morality. ... You can’t do it, because what you’re arguing doesn’t exist. You’re taking our modern morality and saying it’s the peak, and will never be changed, evolve, or be re-examined by future generations of philosophers and humans. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/ 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Guess what. Some of the things you are doing now will be considered abhorrent 150 years from today. That's inevitably true all I can do is the best I can with how I see the world now doesn't mean people in future with a hopefully better understanding of the world shouldn't judge my mistakes.
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: That's inevitably true all I can do is the best I can with how I see the world now doesn't mean people in future with a hopefully better understanding of the world shouldn't judge my mistakes. Couldn't the same be said of people from previous generations? Don't you think they were doing their best with what they had? 2
Magox Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Another Confederate Statue to be taken down hold up.... what? 1 3 2
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Warcodered said: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/ You realize this works against your point. 8 minutes ago, Magox said: Another Confederate Statue to be taken down hold up.... what? Wonder what they’ll do to Rushmore. 1
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: It’s not anarchy, it’s a communist revolution. Anarchy is building a shed without a permit, or drinking raw milk sold to you by a neighbor in a non-State sanctioned currency without paying taxes, or hunting or fishing without a license. anarchy [ˈanərkē] NOUN a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" synonyms: lawlessness · absence of government · nihilism · mobocracy · revolution · insurrection · riot · rebellion · mutiny · disorder · disorganization · misrule · chaos · tumult · turmoil · mayhem · pandemonium absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ It takes anarchy to tear down the existing norms in order to set up for a communist revolution.
Warcodered Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You realize this works against your point. Care to elaborate?
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, Warcodered said: Care to elaborate? Who taught Plato? Who did Plato teach? Did their philosophies evolve? Or remain static?
Magox Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Doublethink Orwellian 18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You realize this works against your point. Wonder what they’ll do to Rushmore. Nothing that has to do with US history is safe. This is a systematic attempt to eliminate US history. “The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth” 7
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: How can this be if human social development disagrees with it? I am not certain if this is sarcasm- please let me know.
njbuff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Rob's House said: Not just some white folks. They want ALL white folks dead. Don't let em fool ya. The only good whitey is a dead whitey to these thugs. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Let me ask you a question. Not sure how old you are but did you, your dad or your grampa ever concern themselves with drinking while they drove? My dad never thought twice about driving with a beer between his legs. We’d be horrified at the thought of that today. And that’s just 40 plus years ago. Not sure if this is a good analogy but it was the first one that popped in my head. It is a good analogy to show that beliefs change, and to be too harsh based on what was acceptable that long ago is ignorant. Some people are proud of their ignorance and arguing with them is difficult since you and they have different goals, yours is to learn and better yourself while they just want to "win" regardless of reason. I also know that 50 years ago my Uncle would literally take one for the road, crazy to think it was not that long ago.
Golden Goat Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, Magox said: Theodore Roosevelt's statue will be removed from the Museum of Natural History in New York City. The memorial has long prompted objections within our newsroom as a symbol of colonialism. FIFT 2
Magox Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: FIFT Of course, this is the same newsroom that was about to walkout on the Tom Cotton Op-Ed. These moral objectionists are a threat to the country 4 minutes ago, Rob's House said: I’m in agreement with what he is saying. The left has won the culture war. They control academia, newsrooms, big tech, corporate boardrooms, Hollywood and sports. Intellectual Guerrilla warfare it is. I am doing my part to try to combat this and right now I think sunlight is the best approach. I’m not being political about it just shining a light on this extremism. 2 3
Chef Jim Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: It is a good analogy to show that beliefs change, and to be too harsh based on what was acceptable that long ago is ignorant. Some people are proud of their ignorance and arguing with them is difficult since you and they have different goals, yours is to learn and better yourself while they just want to "win" regardless of reason. I also know that 50 years ago my Uncle would literally take one for the road, crazy to think it was not that long ago. During her driving test my sister stopped at a stop sign and a beer bottle rolled from under the seat and hit the guy grading her in the foot. ? Dad with a sandwich in one hand, a smoke in the other and a beer between his legs.
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: anarchy [ˈanərkē] NOUN a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" synonyms: lawlessness · absence of government · nihilism · mobocracy · revolution · insurrection · riot · rebellion · mutiny · disorder · disorganization · misrule · chaos · tumult · turmoil · mayhem · pandemonium absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ It takes anarchy to tear down the existing norms in order to set up for a communist revolution. Law breaking is not the same thing as anarchy. These people recognize the authority, which is why they are in rebellion against it. 1
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