FireChan Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 LOL! No, the faulty logic is claiming A developed B but couldn't develop C-M, much less because "they just sucked." Logic would be to say Dick Rehbein, his QB coach, developed him, or even Charlie Weis, who was his OC. Answer this one first. Who has developed a QB if BB didn't for Brady?
Dante Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Yeah, what does NE know about receivers? Hogan will struggle with the downgrade in qb play. Hogan will get 80 receptions and 10 tds lol
3rdand12 Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Hogan will get 80 receptions and 10 tds lol Should be fun to see if Brady " likes " Chris. I suspect Hogan will get his shots as long as he is in the Club.
Mr. WEO Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Probably your best response. It does sum it up. Your "logic" rules out Weis as a developer of QBs. Edited March 15, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Doc Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Answer this one first. I can't say for sure who has developed a QB. You yourself said that those QB's BB drafted who he couldn't develop might have just sucked. Maybe Brady and other top QB's always had the greatness in them and just needed time to get acclimated to the NFL, if not be put in the correct systems/with the best players? And have you heard Brady credit BB with developing him? The only thing I've ever heard him say is that he Bledsoe taught him how to watch game film. It does sum it up. Your "logic" rules out Weis as a developer of QBs. Why? He was with Brady during his formative years and, like BB, hasn't developed anyone since. Would you say Pete Carroll developed Russell Wilson? What are the odds BB turns Garrooppppollloo, who he drafted in the 2nd round, into a good QB, much less a HOFer?
Mr. WEO Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) I can't say for sure who has developed a QB. You yourself said that those QB's BB drafted who he couldn't develop might have just sucked. Maybe Brady and other top QB's always had the greatness in them and just needed time to get acclimated to the NFL, if not be put in the correct systems/with the best players? And have you heard Brady credit BB with developing him? The only thing I've ever heard him say is that he Bledsoe taught him how to watch game film. Why? He was with Brady during his formative years and, like BB, hasn't developed anyone since. Would you say Pete Carroll developed Russell Wilson? What are the odds BB turns Garrooppppollloo, who he drafted in the 2nd round, into a good QB, much less a HOFer? If Weis has developed no QB since he was with NE, then he could not have developed Brady, for the reasons you stated BB didn't. As for Garafalo,...as Firechan already told you, you can't develop something out of nothing. No coach has made a HOFer out of someone without significant innate talent and the ability to want to work hard. And really, knocking BB for "not developing" Garapolo or some other backup while Brady has been mostly an iron man dominating the league for years is as goofy as knocking BB for not drafting a star WR. Both are completely irrelevant at this point. And no, Pete Carroll didn't develop Wilson. It was clear that Wilson was one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out of college other than Luck in years. Carroll was smart enough (unlike the Buddy Nix gang in the Bills FO) to recognize this and then go all in with him in his first preseason. Edited March 15, 2016 by Mr. WEO
FireChan Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) I can't say for sure who has developed a QB. You yourself said that those QB's BB drafted who he couldn't develop might have just sucked. Maybe Brady and other top QB's always had the greatness in them and just needed time to get acclimated to the NFL, if not be put in the correct systems/with the best players? And have you heard Brady credit BB with developing him? The only thing I've ever heard him say is that he Bledsoe taught him how to watch game film. That's sort of my point. If you can't say for sure who has, who can you say for sure who hasn't. I do believe that in most cases the cream rises to the top if they truly have the tools to be great, but it's hard to separate the coach from the QB. Rodgers, for example. It's widely reported that McCarthy revamped his mechanics. Did he do it personally, or have his QB coach do it? Is that something no one else could do? Those are all questions no one can answer. To argue that BB didn't develop Brady is a little extreme. Especially when Brady was no where near as good out of the box as some other guys. He steadily got better. Remember his game-manager days? Do you think he was capable of setting TD records then? I don't. Edited March 15, 2016 by FireChan
Doc Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 If Weis has developed no QB since he was with NE, then he could not have developed Brady, for the reasons you stated BB didn't. As for Garafalo,...as Firechan already told you, you can't develop something out of nothing. No coach has made a HOFer out of someone without significant innate talent and the ability to want to work hard. And really, knocking BB for "not developing" Garapolo or some other backup while Brady has been mostly an iron man dominating the league for years is as goofy as knocking BB for not drafting a star WR. Both are completely irrelevant at this point. And no, Pete Carroll didn't develop Wilson. It was clear that Wilson was one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out of college other than Luck in years. Carroll was smart enough (unlike the Buddy Nix gang in the Bills FO) to recognize this and then go all in with him in his first preseason. Considering Weis is an offensive coach and BB is a defensive coach, I'd say that crediting Weis with is far more plausible. But as I alluded to, it's more likely that the player already had the greatness and had to get adjusted to the NFL and/or have the right system and/or the right players around him and/or learned things from multiple sources. There's no reason BB couldn't have developed any of the other dozen QB's he drafted, if he's such a developer of QB's. So yes, luck was a major factor, especially getting him in the 6th round. As for Wilson, what he did in college didn't necessarily mean anything for the NFL. Better college players have failed in the NFL. So if you're willing to credit BB for Brady, you would have to do the same with Carroll and Wilson. That's sort of my point. If you can't say for sure who has, who can you say for sure who hasn't. I do believe that in most cases the cream rises to the top if they truly have the tools to be great, but it's hard to separate the coach from the QB. Rodgers, for example. It's widely reported that McCarthy revamped his mechanics. Did he do it personally, or have his QB coach do it? Is that something no one else could do? Those are all questions no one can answer. To argue that BB didn't develop Brady is a little extreme. Especially when Brady was no where near as good out of the box as some other guys. He steadily got better. Remember his game-manager days? Do you think he was capable of setting TD records then? I don't. The difference is that McCarthy was a QB coach and is an offensive coach. BB has never been an offensive coach, much less QB coach.
Jauronimo Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 @MikeRedact 3m Patriots get creative with Chris Hogan's contract. $4 million roster bonus paid entirely in store credit at the Gap and Vineyard Vines. #PatsKnowsWhatWhitesWant
Mr. WEO Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Considering Weis is an offensive coach and BB is a defensive coach, I'd say that crediting Weis with is far more plausible. But as I alluded to, it's more likely that the player already had the greatness and had to get adjusted to the NFL and/or have the right system and/or the right players around him and/or learned things from multiple sources. There's no reason BB couldn't have developed any of the other dozen QB's he drafted, if he's such a developer of QB's. So yes, luck was a major factor, especially getting him in the 6th round. As for Wilson, what he did in college didn't necessarily mean anything for the NFL. Better college players have failed in the NFL. So if you're willing to credit BB for Brady, you would have to do the same with Carroll and Wilson. The difference is that McCarthy was a QB coach and is an offensive coach. BB has never been an offensive coach, much less QB coach. Brady was not even close to being as polished as Wilson coming out of college, so no. And again, until you need your backup (or don't need him anymore), you don't know what has developed. Brady went down for a year and the pats won 1 games with the backup. How do you know Garapalo is no good?
YoloinOhio Posted March 15, 2016 Author Posted March 15, 2016 @MikeRedact 3m Patriots get creative with Chris Hogan's contract. $4 million roster bonus paid entirely in store credit at the Gap and Vineyard Vines. #PatsKnowsWhatWhitesWant you owe me an iPhone screen
Doc Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Brady was not even close to being as polished as Wilson coming out of college, so no. And again, until you need your backup (or don't need him anymore), you don't know what has developed. Brady went down for a year and the pats won 1 games with the backup. How do you know Garapalo is no good? His backups have gone elsewhere and done little. As for Garroooppppollo, I don't know how he'll turn out. But odds are, it won't be anywhere close to what Brady is. But if BB is this QB whisperer you make him out to be...
section122 Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Brady went down for a year and the pats won 11 games with the backup. With an all time great team. A team that was one fluke play away from going undefeated. Look at it this way, he was 7 wins worse without Brady.
Dopey Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 In all seriousness, why are the Patriots so obsessed with white wide receivers? There's like ten white wide receivers and most of them have played for the Pats at one time or another. They had double white tight ends last year, they had like the only white running back in football for a while; like seriously, what gives?I'm looking at team colors. Didn't notice.I'm trying to figure out why it matters? These players perform and perform well. I guess I kinda get the curiosity of it,but whats it matter? Kinda like asking why we have/had so many Williams' on the Bills. Whats it matter and who cares?
vincec Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Hogan will get 80 receptions and 10 tds lol No he won't.
Jauronimo Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I'm looking at team colors. Didn't notice. I'm trying to figure out why it matters? These players perform and perform well. I guess I kinda get the curiosity of it,but whats it matter? Kinda like asking why we have/had so many Williams' on the Bills. Whats it matter and who cares? Are you really trying to tell me, that in this day in age, with this country's checkered past and legacy of inequality, only a generation removed from Jim Crow and segregation, with a black president currently sitting in the office, and considering how far we've come and how far we still have to go, that you wouldn't notice an all black hockey team? Bull#$^%!!! No he won't. Don't be so sure. Brady is already praising Hogan and talking up how he fits in their offense. "Chris brings a lot to the table. They don't call him 9-11 for nothing. Its just really great not to be the whitest guy on the team anymore. I've been wanting to say this so long and now..screw it, fo shizzle! Thanks, Chris!"
YoloinOhio Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 Check out their coaching staff. 12:2. And the nepotism with his son on the staff! Who allowed that? Nice job Kraft. http://www.patriots.com/team/coaches
Marty McFly Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) With an all time great team. A team that was one fluke play away from going undefeated. Look at it this way, he was 7 wins worse without Brady. There were plenty of fluke plays that went in the Pats* favor in that SuperBowl it just didnt happen on the game deciding drive Edited March 16, 2016 by Marty McFly
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