Acantha Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 ok i don't see the problem. this is not overly complicated. if you focus on the individual positions each player would have to learn its not so bad. most offensive playbook look similar Based on the comments from defensive players in Rex's and Rob's system, one of the biggest issues is figuring out which play and personnel grouping is being used on each play because they are so specific that it takes too much time to get it all figured out. Also, offensive assignments are a lot easier to dictate. Defenses tend to more reactionary, so complicating them makes reacting to what the offense is doing that much more difficult. And really, it's not a good idea to have a defense that relies on every single person doing the exact right thing. In a perfect world, it makes sense, but in reality it's just not going to happen and there's going to be a breakdown. Better to plan for the reality IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Based on the comments from defensive players in Rex's and Rob's system, one of the biggest issues is figuring out which play and personnel grouping is being used on each play because they are so specific that it takes too much time to get it all figured out. Also, offensive assignments are a lot easier to dictate. Defenses tend to more reactionary, so complicating them makes reacting to what the offense is doing that much more difficult. And really, it's not a good idea to have a defense that relies on every single person doing the exact right thing. In a perfect world, it makes sense, but in reality it's just not going to happen and there's going to be a breakdown. Better to plan for the reality IMO. it is a game of percentages at that point i might suppose. Does the Qb catch the breakdowns. Is the player who whiffs a key character in the play. That is why i freak out when a safety over commits but not so much when Dt picks the wrong gap. economizing mistakes is part of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 My response was to the poster who seemed to claim that Wade's simple defense is what wins Super Bowls. Of course, that's the first time his simple defense won the Super Bowl. Is it possible that after the death of the padded practice, in an era of high roster turnover and hurry up offense, that simple is making a comeback? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 it is a game of percentages at that point i might suppose. Does the Qb catch the breakdowns. Is the player who whiffs a key character in the play. That is why i freak out when a safety over commits but not so much when Dt picks the wrong gap. economizing mistakes is part of the game It's early yet to declare definitively one way or the other, but based on the one year we have to go on, I'd say it didn't work out so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 It's early yet to declare definitively one way or the other, but based on the one year we have to go on, I'd say it didn't work out so well. i cannot argue that one bit. But i think that there were more then one issue affecting last years results. and accumulation of mistakes or problems perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Have we seen wade phillips playbook to make these assumptions? I will say it once I will say it again Teams were coming out and using a quick throw pass offense against us........what if Schwartz was still our DC and he was NOT WORKING because offenses had game film on us and were now doing something to negate it. We would be calling for Schwartz head Teams adjusted to our defense when Schwartz was dc. He just did a better job of combating those adjustments. A brilliant defensive mind like Rex surely knew teams would adjust to his defense, right?! "But, they were throwing too fast. What were we supposed to do? They wouldn't play fair." Not trying to be rude, but this is the lamest excuse for a Brilliant mind like Rex. Don't you think? JMO but with Schwartz still here and the improved offense, we make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 The best comment I read is why take one effective defense and completely reverse it and expect it to go well. The talent didn't match the scheme. now, we'll probably have to use a bunch of draft picks to find the players to fit his 3-4 defense, vs. not screwing up an effective one already here. i just believe the best coaches see the talent they have on a team, and build their offense or defense around that talent. Not try to force a system. The best example of this is the Hoodie. He has been so impressive how he went from a running team, to an explosive WR set with Moss, to a TE centric offense with the killer and Gronk. The crazy thing is Belicheck fundamentally is a defensive guy. He may be boring in interviews but his football acumen is so impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 People are seeing this as complex. It's not. It's just everything e plained. It is every variable. This is what we practiced in high school on the field as coaches drilled in to our head - the way we move to the ball, realign, etc based on offense. It's not that overly complicated. It's just very thorough. These guys learn it in the book and practice itmon the field. We all learned and practiced it to the best of our JV ability. These guys can Y'all see complicated. I see too thorough and to much thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Trying to remember who said it and when, but some former player or coach made the comment that Ryan's defense has more hot reads for the LBs and safeties than offenses do for receivers, TEs, and RBs. I agree with Boyst in that it is not complicated, but it takes a ton of study before guys get comfortable and we all saw the premium placed on communication among the players on the field. Also, Rex needs to readjust because he is so dependent on subpackages and offenses aren't willing to give us the time to run different packages on and off the field much of the time, either. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Is it possible that after the death of the padded practice, in an era of high roster turnover and hurry up offense, that simple is making a comeback? Just a thought. Yes, this is my view, at least on offense. The Panthers ran a very simple offense this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickedface Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 the biggest problem i can see is that the playbook counts on the lb or the safety to recognize and react to different formations. the exotic/difficult part could be running this as a whole at one of those positions. i could see preston brown getting lost trying to figure out what to do. this is part of what a leader on the defense does. and players complaining about difficulty on the line just don't want to drop into coverage. perhaps the hybrid playbook that was used this year was the main culprit because certain formations were not able to adjust appropriately. also the biggest differences between the 2 is the reliance on players, schwartz basically ran the front 4 straight ahead and let them cover up the lb's this defensive playbook is more designed for the lb's to cover the line. still don't think its complicated though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Another breakdown of the Rex Ryan Defense: @cover1eturner Video Review of Rex Ryan's Multiple Defenses #Billsmafia #Bills http://www.cover1.net/video-review-of-rex-ryans-multiple-defenses/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Teams adjusted to our defense when Schwartz was dc. He just did a better job of combating those adjustments. A brilliant defensive mind like Rex surely knew teams would adjust to his defense, right?! "But, they were throwing too fast. What were we supposed to do? They wouldn't play fair." Not trying to be rude, but this is the lamest excuse for a Brilliant mind like Rex. Don't you think? JMO but with Schwartz still here and the improved offense, we make the playoffs. We will soon see....Schwartz is back in the league and will see if it still works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Based on the comments from defensive players in Rex's and Rob's system, one of the biggest issues is figuring out which play and personnel grouping is being used on each play because they are so specific that it takes too much time to get it all figured out. Also, offensive assignments are a lot easier to dictate. Defenses tend to more reactionary, so complicating them makes reacting to what the offense is doing that much more difficult. And really, it's not a good idea to have a defense that relies on every single person doing the exact right thing. In a perfect world, it makes sense, but in reality it's just not going to happen and there's going to be a breakdown. Better to plan for the reality IMO. All defenses rely on every one to do their exact job to some degree or another. the biggest problem i can see is that the playbook counts on the lb or the safety to recognize and react to different formations. the exotic/difficult part could be running this as a whole at one of those positions. i could see preston brown getting lost trying to figure out what to do. this is part of what a leader on the defense does. and players complaining about difficulty on the line just don't want to drop into coverage. perhaps the hybrid playbook that was used this year was the main culprit because certain formations were not able to adjust appropriately. also the biggest differences between the 2 is the reliance on players, schwartz basically ran the front 4 straight ahead and let them cover up the lb's this defensive playbook is more designed for the lb's to cover the line. still don't think its complicated though. My take is these guys need to stop their damn complaining, take that time they are complaining and put it into learning the playbook better, take the time they are going out to the clubs, etc and spend it learning the playbook and then if it still doesn't work then at least they can say they gave it their all. Right now they seem like they just want everything to be easy and not put in the hard work of learning the playbook properly. It would be like in programming, if I'm using Visual Basic or Python and then new people take over the company and they decide we are changing to C++.... The option is to either learn the damn language or find another job somewhere else, not learn it half-ass so you sometimes know what you are doing and other times not... Edited March 12, 2016 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Trying to remember who said it and when, but some former player or coach made the comment that Ryan's defense has more hot reads for the LBs and safeties than offenses do for receivers, TEs, and RBs. I agree with Boyst in that it is not complicated, but it takes a ton of study before guys get comfortable and we all saw the premium placed on communication among the players on the field. Also, Rex needs to readjust because he is so dependent on subpackages and offenses aren't willing to give us the time to run different packages on and off the field much of the time, either. GO BILLS!!! Which made rolling into the season with a defense that funnels to lb and safety when those are a weakness, coupled with making them make extra reads as the already thin units lost guys was frustrating scheming. Is it possible that after the death of the padded practice, in an era of high roster turnover and hurry up offense, that simple is making a comeback? Just a thought. It's a very real discussion point I think- I'm not sure how you quantify any of that, and don't think you can make too wide a blanket statement but all those factors sure do point at simplicity being premium. If you can supply basic wrinkles and do well with play calling- go get athletes and drill them on the basics needed and you can do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I'm leaning towad the academic all-american with the economics degree from Georgetown, over the Southwest Oklahoma state grad with the PE degree... I see Rex's defensive bloodlines as a hindrance at times... All "daddy's boy" coaches seem to suffer from the same tunnel vision... Todd Haley, Nate Hackett, etc... They sort of re-package their daddies philosophies, then force them on teams with completely different circumstances... I prefer the thinking man's approach... Start from zero, and build something truly great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 All defenses rely on every one to do their exact job to some degree or another. My take is these guys need to stop their damn complaining, take that time they are complaining and put it into learning the playbook better, take the time they are going out to the clubs, etc and spend it learning the playbook and then if it still doesn't work then at least they can say they gave it their all. Right now they seem like they just want everything to be easy and not put in the hard work of learning the playbook properly. It would be like in programming, if I'm using Visual Basic or Python and then new people take over the company and they decide we are changing to C++.... The option is to either learn the damn language or find another job somewhere else, not learn it half-ass so you sometimes know what you are doing and other times not... Sincerely like your attitude. I wonder if this was considered when retaining certain players was being discussed. Say Bradham, Rambo, mario. Being into Machine Controls at one point in life, learning a new system can be very challenging! Even though the concepts are the same. The language changes Like going from A-B ladder logic to Modicon. I really struggled. But to be successful at any thing , hard work is required. Because the world is always evolving. I'm leaning towad the academic all-american with the economics degree from Georgetown, over the Southwest Oklahoma state grad with the PE degree... I see Rex's defensive bloodlines as a hindrance at times... All "daddy's boy" coaches seem to suffer from the same tunnel vision... Todd Haley, Nate Hackett, etc... They sort of re-package their daddies philosophies, then force them on teams with completely different circumstances... I prefer the thinking man's approach... Start from zero, and build something truly great. If you start from zero how long will it take to get to 100% ? Maybe that is what Rex is doing. But no one has the patience for it these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Wade Phillips “Defensive players, they’re aggressive by nature. I think you take something away from them when you don’t let them be,” he said. “And aggressive doesn’t mean blitzing all the time, but it does mean coming off the football—everybody coming off the football “I’ve always said, ‘Hey, if he can rush well, if he’s a really great rusher, let him rush.’ It seems simple but sometimes people want to drop them in the pass and all that stuff. It’s also the cornerbacks, what they can do; It’s what [Chris] Harris [Jr.] can do, what [Aqib] Talib can do. It’s whatever they can do really well, then we’re going to utilize that,” Phillips said. http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Phillips-to-bring-aggressiveness-3-4-defense/e41c7a5a-cfe5-450f-aa2f-9050f5a95352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Thanks for sharing the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 If only Rex had asked Mario to "rush the passer really well." If only he had asked the rest of his front seven to "come off the ball." There are things a coach shouldn't have to ask his players. I think giving all out effort is one of them. Too bad Rex couldn't find the sac to bench anyone he had to ask. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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