Deranged Rhino Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 No it didn't. Harsher sentences for the types of drugs used by the black community were conceived of, and lobbied for, by black community leaders who were trying desperately to combat an epidemic of violent crime which was being fueled by widespread use of crack cocaine. Your narrative is nothing but a narrative. There's no denying that the war on drugs, and it's policies, resulted in a two tiered justice system when it comes to drug offenders. Whether or not black community leaders lobbied for the laws or not is irrelevant and tangential to the main point. The crack was brought into the country with the help of the US intelligence services for a reason -- and it wasn't because black community leaders lobbied for it.
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2016 Author Posted March 7, 2016 There's no denying that the war on drugs, and it's policies, resulted in a two tiered justice system when it comes to drug offenders. Whether or not black community leaders lobbied for the laws or not is irrelevant and tangential to the main point. The crack was brought into the country with the help of the US intelligence services for a reason -- and it wasn't because black community leaders lobbied for it. You got any good links to the fact CIA brought the stuff in? I swear senator Kerry said that once in senate but couldn't find a link for it
meazza Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 There's no denying that the war on drugs, and it's policies, resulted in a two tiered justice system when it comes to drug offenders. Whether or not black community leaders lobbied for the laws or not is irrelevant and tangential to the main point. The crack was brought into the country with the help of the US intelligence services for a reason -- and it wasn't because black community leaders lobbied for it.
FireChan Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) There's no denying that the war on drugs, and it's policies, resulted in a two tiered justice system when it comes to drug offenders. Whether or not black community leaders lobbied for the laws or not is irrelevant and tangential to the main point. The crack was brought into the country with the help of the US intelligence services for a reason -- and it wasn't because black community leaders lobbied for it. Seeing as your main point is that it was intended to target minorities from the beginning, I don't know how that can be true. Absolutely, I'm not trying to say it was Nancy's plan. She was just the spokeswoman, she probably had nothing but the most noble intentions.That said, RIP, Mrs. Reagan (I should have led with that). But the War on Drugs was certainly a disaster for this country, especially for poor minorities and non violent drug offenders. And that certainly seems to be the intention from the beginning. There's no other way to explain it when you really dig into the history of the policy. Who was impacted most by the War on Drugs? The poor and minority offenders. Who benefited the most from the War on Drugs? The private industrial prison complex which grew by leaps and bounds, and the US intelligence services who controlled a pipeline to their own private ATM without having to go through congress. Who was bringing the largest portion of drugs into the inner cities to sell? It wasn't the Mexican cartels, it was Bush Sr.'s pals in the US intelligence agencies. Gotta give it to them though. It worked like a charm. They invent a drug epidemic, supply and profit from said epidemic, codify the laws to serve their political agenda (more minorities behind bars means less minorities voting for the other party), then bring down the hammer of the justice system on the poorest and most exposed portions of the population, destroying urban neighborhoods all over the country, driving down land value for future developers in the 90s and early 00s to buy the land for pennies on the dollar. God Bless America. The deeper you go down the rabbit hole, the more brazen it becomes. It worked really well to codify and legitimize racist sentencing. Which is what they wanted in the first place, so you can't really say it didn't work. So which is it? Do the reasons black community lobbyists wanted it matter? Is this what "they" wanted in the first place? Edited March 7, 2016 by FireChan
Deranged Rhino Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 You got any good links to the fact CIA brought the stuff in? I swear senator Kerry said that once in senate but couldn't find a link for it Lots. The CIA have been involved in the narcotics trade to fund covert ops since their inception. They were heavily involved in the heroin trade in Laos leading up to and through Vietnam. Ditto in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation. They carried this knowledge over to South America in their dealings with the Contras and the cartels. Start by looking into Gary Webb and his Dark Alliance stuff (this has to do specifically with crack into LA in the '80s). Lots to be found there pro and con. http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/18/opinion/oe-schou18 Frontline did a piece in the 80s too that is still around: There are lots of other sources out there as well. It's been CIA's SOP to fund covert operations for decades -- one that's been denied by all official channels. Seeing as your main point is that it was intended to target minorities from the beginning, I don't know how that can be true. So which is it? Do the reasons black community lobbyists wanted it matter? Is this what "they" wanted in the first place? One was the result of the other. One is a distraction, the other is subversive. The community leaders wanted to find a way to stem the tide of drugs coming into their communities and destroying their young men at disproportionate rates compared to the rest of the country. It's rather important to note that those very drugs were being funneled into those communities by branches of the US government, is it not? Put enough pressure on people and they'll agree to things that aren't in their best interest without blinking an eye. Just remember the Patriot Act as a recent example of this phenomenon.
Nanker Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) RIP Nancy Reagan. You were a tremendous person and the best First Lady in my lifetime. PS - please keep any comments focused on side issues and personal agendas out of this thread. It's intent is to show respect for the former First Lady. Thank you. Edited March 7, 2016 by Nanker
3rdnlng Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 RIP Nancy Regan. You were a tremendous person and the best First Lady in my lifetime. PS - please keep any comments focused on side issues and personal agendas out of this thread. It's intent is to show respect for the former First Lady. Thank you. Let's start by spelling her last name right.
Nanker Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 Let's start by spelling her last name right. My apologies. I was rather upset at the downward spiral the original thread had taken and posted in haste.
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 There's no denying that the war on drugs, and it's policies, resulted in a two tiered justice system when it comes to drug offenders. Whether or not black community leaders lobbied for the laws or not is irrelevant and tangential to the main point. The crack was brought into the country with the help of the US intelligence services for a reason -- and it wasn't because black community leaders lobbied for it. It's incredibly important to note who came up with the idea, and who lobbied for it, when you're making charges of insidious racist plots built around those things. There was no nefarious plot. It's just another case of government interfering to help, but bungling the process, just as they've done with the Great Society policies. The Contra mess was not about a long game plot to disenfranchise black people. It was about making use of the utility of a plentiful and largely seized resource, and taking advantage of an existing market for distribution. There was a growing crack cocaine epidemic in urban America long before the CIA became involved; they just simply tapped into an existing market. Further, these drugs were, in most instances, already bound for market; and were a diminishingly small portion of the crack trade in the 80's. You can argue all you want about the propriety of the CIA engaging themselves as they did, and you won't get argument from me; but that's the end of the argument. The CIA did not plot against black America, and if they did, they did a lousy job of it given the foolishly small portion of the market they were involved in.
Andrew Son Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 it sure is a disaster. The biggest human rights nightmare domestically of our time This. The destruction of families due to mass incarceration for low level non-violent drug offenses is one of the biggest tragedies of our time.
B-Man Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 President Barack Obama and the First Lady Michelle Obama released a tribute to Reagan which recognizes her generosity, sage advice and advocacy for Alzheimer's awareness and research."Nancy Reagan once wrote that nothing could prepare you for living in the White House," the couple said in the statement. "She was right, of course. But we had a head start, because we were fortunate to benefit from her proud example, and her warm and generous advice.""Our former First Lady redefined the role in her time here. Later, in her long goodbye with President Reagan, she became a voice on behalf of millions of families going through the depleting, aching reality of Alzheimer’s, and took on a new role, as advocate, on behalf of treatments that hold the potential and the promise to improve and save lives.""We offer our sincere condolences to their children, Patti, Ron, and Michael, and to their grandchildren. And we remain grateful for Nancy Reagan's life, thankful for her guidance, and prayerful that she and her beloved husband are together again." .
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2016 Author Posted March 7, 2016 President Barack Obama and the First Lady Michelle Obama released a tribute to Reagan which recognizes her generosity, sage advice and advocacy for Alzheimer's awareness and research. "Nancy Reagan once wrote that nothing could prepare you for living in the White House," the couple said in the statement. "She was right, of course. But we had a head start, because we were fortunate to benefit from her proud example, and her warm and generous advice." "Our former First Lady redefined the role in her time here. Later, in her long goodbye with President Reagan, she became a voice on behalf of millions of families going through the depleting, aching reality of Alzheimer’s, and took on a new role, as advocate, on behalf of treatments that hold the potential and the promise to improve and save lives." "We offer our sincere condolences to their children, Patti, Ron, and Michael, and to their grandchildren. And we remain grateful for Nancy Reagan's life, thankful for her guidance, and prayerful that she and her beloved husband are together again." . The Obama's are so classy
3rdnlng Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 My apologies. I was rather upset at the downward spiral the original thread had taken and posted in haste. Yes, I didn't like the way the thread was going either. Gatorette starts a decent thread for once and Greggy hijacks it. Greggy, the new gator.
Dante Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 Absolutely, I'm not trying to say it was Nancy's plan. She was just the spokeswoman, she probably had nothing but the most noble intentions.That said, RIP, Mrs. Reagan (I should have led with that). But the War on Drugs was certainly a disaster for this country, especially for poor minorities and non violent drug offenders. And that certainly seems to be the intention from the beginning. There's no other way to explain it when you really dig into the history of the policy. Who was impacted most by the War on Drugs? The poor and minority offenders. Who benefited the most from the War on Drugs? The private industrial prison complex which grew by leaps and bounds, and the US intelligence services who controlled a pipeline to their own private ATM without having to go through congress. Who was bringing the largest portion of drugs into the inner cities to sell? It wasn't the Mexican cartels, it was Bush Sr.'s pals in the US intelligence agencies. Gotta give it to them though. It worked like a charm. They invent a drug epidemic, supply and profit from said epidemic, codify the laws to serve their political agenda (more minorities behind bars means less minorities voting for the other party), then bring down the hammer of the justice system on the poorest and most exposed portions of the population, destroying urban neighborhoods all over the country, driving down land value for future developers in the 90s and early 00s to buy the land for pennies on the dollar. God Bless America. The deeper you go down the rabbit hole, the more brazen it becomes. Wasn't it Nixon who officially kicked off the "War On Drugs' in 1971? Anyway, how to make huge amounts of cash relatively quickly? Prohibition. I don't buy the targeting of minorities though. But following the cash always makes sense. Afghanistan is one of the biggest exporters of heroin in the world now since the 2001 US invasion. Have to wonder who's guarding those poppy fields.
B-Man Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 It's really a shame that the other thread was not left open. .
Dante Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 RIP Nancy Like Ronald, I always thought she was dignified and classy.
Jauronimo Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Lots. The CIA have been involved in the narcotics trade to fund covert ops since their inception. They were heavily involved in the heroin trade in Laos leading up to and through Vietnam. Ditto in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation. They carried this knowledge over to South America in their dealings with the Contras and the cartels. Start by looking into Gary Webb and his Dark Alliance stuff (this has to do specifically with crack into LA in the '80s). Lots to be found there pro and con. http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/18/opinion/oe-schou18 Frontline did a piece in the 80s too that is still around: There are lots of other sources out there as well. It's been CIA's SOP to fund covert operations for decades -- one that's been denied by all official channels. One was the result of the other. One is a distraction, the other is subversive. The community leaders wanted to find a way to stem the tide of drugs coming into their communities and destroying their young men at disproportionate rates compared to the rest of the country. It's rather important to note that those very drugs were being funneled into those communities by branches of the US government, is it not? Put enough pressure on people and they'll agree to things that aren't in their best interest without blinking an eye. Just remember the Patriot Act as a recent example of this phenomenon. Jesus, dude. I'm familiar with Webb's work on the matter but to pass off this idea as well documented fact is a major stretch. Last I checked, Webb's sources weren't the reliable sort. Then to make the leap that cocaine was sold to gangs in the inner city with the intent that this coke would then be stepped on and cooked into crack for the express purposes of a drug epidemic to facilitate the arrest and incarceration of as many minorities as possible in order to have their voting rights rescinded as part of a Republican/GOP conspiracy orchestrated by the CIA for some reason is another f@#$ing level. Stick to UFOs. Edited March 7, 2016 by Jauronimo
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 PS - please keep any comments focused on side issues and personal agendas out of this thread. It's intent is to show respect for the former First Lady. Thank you. Well ain't PPP a geographical oddity, I thought PPP was 2 weeks from everywhere. That is what I thought the thread in OTW was for... Why another thread was started/moved here to PPP. Nancy was very controversial, without her detractors, including her step daughter (@ one time). When TheHill and BigO First Lady's kick the bucket, will you show the same restraint. Again... This is PPP... This the place not gentle feelings... You want that, take it into the main establishments. A joke I heard when I was a teen back in the '80s: "President Reagan wakes up to a beautiful winter morning. The sun is shining, the air is crisp, and there is a light blanket of snow on the ground. He stretches and goes to look out the window at the snow-covered White House lawn and sees the words "President Reagan sucks" written in pee in the snow. Reagan gets all upset and calls White House Security. He tells them he doesn't care what it takes but he wants to know who did this. The Chief of Security returns in a couple of days to the President and tells him that he has good news, bad news, and real bad news. "OK," says Reagan, "Give me the good news first, then the bad news, and then the real bad news." The Chief says: "The good news is after taking analysis of the pee, we know who the culprit is." Reagan nods and the Chief continues: "The bad news is the culprit is Vice President Bush." This really upsets the President, but he controls his anger and asks the Chief to tell him the real bad news. The Chief of Security swallows and says, "It's in Nancy's hand writing". Again... PPP gentle readers...
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