brihs2005 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Ross Tucker, while not overly impressive throughout most of the season, was consistent at his time at center, and also did not play poorly once he was placed at left guard. No, he did not dominate, but he wasn't a weak link either. Knowing McNally's tendency to use smart athletes at the line position (and not necessarily the most phyisically overwhelming player) i see Tucker starting at that spot next year. He went to Princeton, may be the smartest and most articulate linemen we have. I wouldn't be dissapointed if he was used as the starter for another few seasons until we groom a stud (low cap hit as well). Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 You mean John Tucker? You mean, um, coitus? Ross Tucker is a terrific player to have - as a backup. He won't be the starting LG - he's just not strong enough. I assume TD to go after this position heavily in free agency. Wahle of the Packers is the guy I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumping platelets Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Wahle is too expensive. I foresee a Steelers connection. Kendrick Vincent could be a REAL possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 From the way it looks right now I suspect they will try to upgrade the OL though improvement of current players rather than by acquiring better players. The constraints on getting new talent appear to be: 1. MW is scheduled to have a cap hit of about $5.8 million. If JJ is resigned at the going rate for solid LT talent of about a $5 million annual salary or even for the lower $3-4 million cap hit in 2005 that this salary brings one begins to exceed any probable budget for the OL and adding a new salary for an LG even at Villarial levels looks doubtful. Perhaps with a renegotiation for MW that lowers his 2005 cap hit (his play certainly mandates lowering it though we are still hopeful he has turned the corner and become a professional, with a little hardball and no FA market for JJ, and the Bills viewing LT improvement as fubndamental this all could happen but this is a lot of ifs. 2. The latest best figures available from Clumpy lower our available cap room by a couple of million to around $7 million. 3. The Bledsoe cut though welcomed by many and giving him a "mere" $4.3 million 05 cap hit in deadspace compared to the $6.5 million to keep him leaves us with a savings of $2.2 million but a new need for a back-up QB. It seems very possible that the cost of a credible back-up QB will exceed this amount and result in the Bledsoe cut reducing out cap room, though theoretically we can go with a more affordable back-up though this likely means getting a player like Kordelia, Batch or McMahon as our back-up. At any rate the better the back-up QB we get the less we have to spend on an LG. At any rate, LG is an issue. but it does not strike me as unreasonable to hope/expect JMac to improve the LG in 05 from his level of play in '04. Even if folks judged Tucker or Smith to be disappointing in '04 why would one assume that they will not improve at all and exhibit the same level of play in '05? Actually when you look at the somewhat logical rate of improvement continuing, Smith stepped up from being good enough to make the Ravens PS in '03 to being a flawed but not unreasonable starting LG for the Bills in '04. It actually strikes me as less ground to improve for Smith to jump up in '05 to be a fulltime starter quality player in 05 than the amazing improvement he showed last year. If Smith had "merely" achieved the feat of being a reasonable back-up for us last year, I would have counted it as a pretty good year for Smith moving from the PS of one team to the active roster of another. Though he was not the fulltime starter we wanted his achievement last year was quite impressive. Further, there are two specific areas he needs to improve to be a credible fulltime starter. His pass pro (the more difficult talent to master) was good but he was not as authoritative as we want him to be at run blocking. i see no reason why JMac cannot improve his run blocking aggression and achievement. He also was not as effective as we want the LG to be in the redzone. Improvement in this specific area is not impossible either. I think we most likely will be forced by cap limitations to improve internally at LG, but I actually think Smith is the more likely candidate to get the work and focus to do this and Tucker will be called upon to play the critical role Price played at tackle by being our first back-up option for both guards and the center position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumping platelets Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Mike Williams' cap hit is now $9.17 million because of the salary escalator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 You mean John Tucker? You mean, um, coitus? 244701[/snapback] "I need my johnson." "What do you need that for, dude?" Best movie _ever_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 i would love it if tucker was our left guard as he is one of my favorite bills...provided he continues to improve. he's still not good enough to start for a playoff team imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Here is my "out on a limb" prediction - The ability to place center between Teague and Tucker were almost even....in fact I would even have to give Tucker the edge.....he simply has more in the back end to play like a true center...... - The Bills understand that for in understand that in order for this team to get better....we have GOT to get better on the left side...namely left guard..... - Jennings is resigned - Teague is released....Tucker replaces him at a lesser salary - We go out and get the best Left Guard available....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brihs2005 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 John, don't think it will pan out like that... but that would be ideal in my book. Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 - Teague is released....Tucker replaces him at a lesser salary 244905[/snapback] I wouldnt mind that, but there would have to be concern over who would backup Tucker at Center. Currently, I dont think we have anyone either good or experienced on the roster for that (Sobieski was a project at center last year). That would mean getting another FA ($) or drafting (inexperience) for the backup spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Mike Williams' cap hit is now $9.17 million because of the salary escalator Why was his salary escalated? If he doesn't renegotiate that down to reasonable levels, I would not be upset if TD released him. Truly, I would not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 What about Jason Peters as our new LT? He's listed as a LT on BB.com. I do not want to overpay for Jennings. His injury history is a big risk when talking about such a significant cap hit. Coach up Peters like they'll be coaching up Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 What about Jason Peters as our new LT? He's listed as a LT on BB.com. I do not want to overpay for Jennings. His injury history is a big risk when talking about such a significant cap hit. Coach up Peters like they'll be coaching up Losman. 245007[/snapback] why would anyone want to trust argueably the most important position on the OL to a raw, undrafted 2nd year player who has never played the spot before? the cheapness of some bills fans knows no bounds it seems........while we're at it we should just cut troy vincent and "coach up" rashad baker, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Here is my "out on a limb" prediction - Teague is released....Tucker replaces him at a lesser salary 244905[/snapback] Whoa...what kind of tree are you climbing? I thought TT had his best year as a Bill last year when he had competent OG play on both sides of him. What's your reasoning for letting him go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 why would anyone want to trust argueably the most important position on the OL to a raw, undrafted 2nd year player who has never played the spot before? the cheapness of some bills fans knows no bounds it seems........while we're at it we should just cut troy vincent and "coach up" rashad baker, right? 245022[/snapback] Because he's a heck of a lot more athletic than both Jennings and Williams. The dude blocked a punt and recovered it for a touchdown. Who cares when he was drafted! Drafting position means nothing when players get on the field. Being a LT is a lot more about being big and quick than it is technique. So tell me Einstien, you'd rather dump a ton of cash on some guy that no doubt won't even be healthy when we need him most? Jennings NEVER stays healthy for a complete season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Who cares when he was drafted! that's the point -- he wasn't.........255 players were considered better then him not even one year ago......you really think that much has changed in that time? Being a LT is a lot more about being big and quick than it is technique. well if that is the case, why do you want to "coach him up"? So tell me Einstien, you'd rather dump a ton of cash on some guy that no doubt won't even be healthy when we need him most? Jennings NEVER stays healthy for a complete season. jennings played vs. PIT, when we needed him most.........peters, on the other hand, was on the sideline with a hamstring injury and didn't dress......... i am quite comfortable giving jonas a long-term deal.......he is a good, young player and i want to keep good, young players around.......it will also help the o-line to have some continuity heading into next year, after all the changes that have happened the past few seasons.........jonas knows the offense and is comfortable in it and i would prefer not to rock the boat.......his health does not concern me, as he has started over 80% of the games the past 4 seasons........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Because he's a heck of a lot more athletic than both Jennings and Williams. The dude blocked a punt and recovered it for a touchdown. Who cares when he was drafted! Drafting position means nothing when players get on the field. Being a LT is a lot more about being big and quick than it is technique. So tell me Einstien, you'd rather dump a ton of cash on some guy that no doubt won't even be healthy when we need him most? Jennings NEVER stays healthy for a complete season. 245054[/snapback] My understanding is that the problem for Peters is that he just did not demonstrate the mental prowess for anyone to risk drafting him (given that smarts help but being bright is not an essential requirement for a pro athlete this is saying alot). This apparently is evidenced by a pretty low score by Peters on the Wonderlic test, but be it the Wonderlic or the SATs people recognize that test scores do not always tell the tale for an individual and Peters actually was not drafted because when teams interviewed him he came off as a nice guy but clearly an enchilada short of a combination platter mentally from what I hear. When the Bills signed Peters and worked him out he impressed everyone with incredibly soft hands and some great quickness certainly for a guy that big and actually he is just flat out fast at any size. However, his "slowness" tended to be reflected in him having blocking problems for a TE and some difficulty picking up and adjusting to line call changes. Apparently his physical talents are just hard to deny and the Bills became worried that some team might actually be willing to give up a roster spot to snatch Peters off our PS. We activated him, but listed him as a T to emphasize to him that the key to him staying in this league and actually being a playing TE is going to be found not through his receiving skill which cannot be denied, but by him applying himself and learning how to block. The Bills were forced to actually use Peters as a TE by injuries to Euhus and Campbell, but still he has not shown the blocking execution to be trusted with the QBs life. His lack of focus on fundamental issues was seen virtually right away as he checked into a game as a extra TE, but forgot to notify the refs that he was TE eligible with a tackles number and we got penalized. The good news for the Bills however, is that they lined up Peters as an opponent on the scout team for ST and it turned out he was essentially unblockable by our frontline ST. ST pass rush turned out to be the perfect spot for him because the tasks are simple and if he screws up nobody dies. It paid off for us immediately as he not only got a block on an interior rush on ST, he has the ball skills that he hopped right up recovered the ball in the endzone for six. Overall, he looks like a great project who at the very least is a real ST weapon and with practice. time and support may actually become a weapon at TE. However, i would not mistake his listing on the depth chart and athletic prowess as some sign he is ready for LT duty. RT maybe but even that is a jump and even if he can do it, you lose the soft hands and speed he has shown when used as a tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Whoa...what kind of tree are you climbing? I thought TT had his best year as a Bill last year when he had competent OG play on both sides of him. What's your reasoning for letting him go? 245044[/snapback] Another player playing the position just as well at a lesser salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Mike Williams' cap hit is now $9.17 million because of the salary escalator 244729[/snapback] HOLY CRAP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP-era Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 From the way it looks right now I suspect they will try to upgrade the OL though improvement of current players rather than by acquiring better players. The constraints on getting new talent appear to be: 1. MW is scheduled to have a cap hit of about $5.8 million. If JJ is resigned at the going rate for solid LT talent of about a $5 million annual salary or even for the lower $3-4 million cap hit in 2005 that this salary brings one begins to exceed any probable budget for the OL and adding a new salary for an LG even at Villarial levels looks doubtful. Perhaps with a renegotiation for MW that lowers his 2005 cap hit (his play certainly mandates lowering it though we are still hopeful he has turned the corner and become a professional, with a little hardball and no FA market for JJ, and the Bills viewing LT improvement as fubndamental this all could happen but this is a lot of ifs. 2. The latest best figures available from Clumpy lower our available cap room by a couple of million to around $7 million. 3. The Bledsoe cut though welcomed by many and giving him a "mere" $4.3 million 05 cap hit in deadspace compared to the $6.5 million to keep him leaves us with a savings of $2.2 million but a new need for a back-up QB. It seems very possible that the cost of a credible back-up QB will exceed this amount and result in the Bledsoe cut reducing out cap room, though theoretically we can go with a more affordable back-up though this likely means getting a player like Kordelia, Batch or McMahon as our back-up. At any rate the better the back-up QB we get the less we have to spend on an LG. At any rate, LG is an issue. but it does not strike me as unreasonable to hope/expect JMac to improve the LG in 05 from his level of play in '04. Even if folks judged Tucker or Smith to be disappointing in '04 why would one assume that they will not improve at all and exhibit the same level of play in '05? Actually when you look at the somewhat logical rate of improvement continuing, Smith stepped up from being good enough to make the Ravens PS in '03 to being a flawed but not unreasonable starting LG for the Bills in '04. It actually strikes me as less ground to improve for Smith to jump up in '05 to be a fulltime starter quality player in 05 than the amazing improvement he showed last year. If Smith had "merely" achieved the feat of being a reasonable back-up for us last year, I would have counted it as a pretty good year for Smith moving from the PS of one team to the active roster of another. Though he was not the fulltime starter we wanted his achievement last year was quite impressive. Further, there are two specific areas he needs to improve to be a credible fulltime starter. His pass pro (the more difficult talent to master) was good but he was not as authoritative as we want him to be at run blocking. i see no reason why JMac cannot improve his run blocking aggression and achievement. He also was not as effective as we want the LG to be in the redzone. Improvement in this specific area is not impossible either. I think we most likely will be forced by cap limitations to improve internally at LG, but I actually think Smith is the more likely candidate to get the work and focus to do this and Tucker will be called upon to play the critical role Price played at tackle by being our first back-up option for both guards and the center position. 244724[/snapback] Clumpys numbers are flawed BillsDaily has the correct figures. Theres enough money to address LT, LG, and TE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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