TH3 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I'd be interested in hearing any specifics you've got. I will give it a shot - trying to tie in actuarial principles and as well my experience in public office and as a business owner. 1. Individual policies are non starter - individuals do not have the bargaining power nor the ability to upend the current insurance based model. 2. The employer based model of providing coverage has to go - it kills our ability to export - here is why: Car built in Detroit has the cost of health care built into it - ship that car to Canada - and they will add the GST when you buy it. That car now has the cost of two HC systems built into it. Car built in Windsor and shipped to Detroit has NO HC costs built into the final sale price. Spread this across our entire import export landscape. 3. HC should be accessible to everyone - have we not gone for the lowest common denominator too much already? 4. The insurance based model too has to go. The incentive now is to bill for more - not to reduce costs by keeping people healthy. So - yes rip it up and start with a clean sheet of paper - get rid of the patch work model of funding and providing HC. 1.I would go for a single payer where the tax/funds whatever you want to call it are taxed at the retail or final sale - call it a GST if you want. 2. This takes out the burden of local state and federal governments and eliminates all the union strings concerning HC. 3. Goods and service prices reduced by cost of HC the business used to have to provide. 4. Imports pay for HC 5. Our export process reduced by 18 percent. Everyone gets a voucher and buys HC from qualified provider. These providers have to provide a minimum level of basic HC for this sum. HC providers compete for your subscription. They make money by keeping you healthy and reducing the yearly costs it takes to keep you healthy. Private industry will be on your case to stay healthy - not the government. The private HC companies bargain like hell on drug pricing pricing etc...unlike the free pass they got in the ACA We spend 2x on HC what other countries do - and it KILLS us in so many ways. That is a plan - the OP bullet points are just nibbles..... Edited March 4, 2016 by baskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I will give it a shot - trying to tie in actuarial principles and as well my experience in public office and as a business owner. 1. Individual policies are non starter - individuals do not have the bargaining power nor the ability to upend the current insurance based model. 2. The employer based model of providing coverage has to go - it kills our ability to export - here is why: Car built in Detroit has the cost of health care built into it - ship that car to Canada - and they will add the GST when you buy it. That car now has the cost of two HC systems built into it. Car built in Windsor and shipped to Detroit has NO HC costs built into the final sale price. Spread this across our entire import export landscape. 3. HC should be accessible to everyone - have we not gone for the lowest common denominator too much already? 4. The insurance based model too has to go. The incentive now is to bill for more - not to reduce costs by keeping people healthy. So - yes rip it up and start with a clean sheet of paper - get rid of the patch work model of funding and providing HC. 1.I would go for a single payer where the tax/funds whatever you want to call it are taxed at the retail or final sale - call it a GST if you want. 2. This takes out the burden of local state and federal governments and eliminates all the union strings concerning HC. 3. Goods and service prices reduced by cost of HC the business used to have to provide. 4. Imports pay for HC 5. Our export process reduced by 18 percent. Everyone gets a voucher and buys HC from qualified provider. These providers have to provide a minimum level of basic HC for this sum. HC providers compete for your subscription. They make money by keeping you healthy and reducing the yearly costs it takes to keep you healthy. Private industry will be on your case to stay healthy - not the government. The private HC companies bargain like hell on drug pricing pricing etc...unlike the free pass they got in the ACA We spend 2x on HC what other countries do - and it KILLS us in so many ways. That is a plan - the OP bullet points are just nibbles..... Nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Nice job! Damn - Throw some well collated thoughts into words and it scares everyone off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Damn - Throw some well collated thoughts into words and it scares everyone off... Let's just say "well collated" are in the eye of the beholder. Private insurance is bad, but private healthcare providers good? In what fantasy world do you live in to think that there's going to be an incentive for the providers to cut down costs when they know they're dealing with a government bureaucracy for reimbursement? Just because Canadians don't pay for health insurance directly, doesn't mean it's free or not already factored into the cost of all products produced in Canada. Get back to your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 FFS, why couldn't we just have gone the full monty and given everyone medicare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I will give it a shot - trying to tie in actuarial principles and as well my experience in public office and as a business owner. 1. Individual policies are non starter - individuals do not have the bargaining power nor the ability to upend the current insurance based model. 2. The employer based model of providing coverage has to go - it kills our ability to export - here is why: Car built in Detroit has the cost of health care built into it - ship that car to Canada - and they will add the GST when you buy it. That car now has the cost of two HC systems built into it. Car built in Windsor and shipped to Detroit has NO HC costs built into the final sale price. Spread this across our entire import export landscape. 3. HC should be accessible to everyone - have we not gone for the lowest common denominator too much already? 4. The insurance based model too has to go. The incentive now is to bill for more - not to reduce costs by keeping people healthy. So - yes rip it up and start with a clean sheet of paper - get rid of the patch work model of funding and providing HC. 1.I would go for a single payer where the tax/funds whatever you want to call it are taxed at the retail or final sale - call it a GST if you want. 2. This takes out the burden of local state and federal governments and eliminates all the union strings concerning HC. 3. Goods and service prices reduced by cost of HC the business used to have to provide. 4. Imports pay for HC 5. Our export process reduced by 18 percent. Everyone gets a voucher and buys HC from qualified provider. These providers have to provide a minimum level of basic HC for this sum. HC providers compete for your subscription. They make money by keeping you healthy and reducing the yearly costs it takes to keep you healthy. Private industry will be on your case to stay healthy - not the government. The private HC companies bargain like hell on drug pricing pricing etc...unlike the free pass they got in the ACA We spend 2x on HC what other countries do - and it KILLS us in so many ways. That is a plan - the OP bullet points are just nibbles..... I appreciate your response, but I have a few questions. Why would we want to do away with individual plans? An individual's lack of bargaining power shouldn't enter into it - they're customers, each with their own particular health concerns. I believe people should be free to assess their own risks and invest accordingly. And I'm not talking about anything like the ACA's bronze, silver, or gold plans, but real choices for people. I also happen to believe that insurance companies can and will make more affordable options for people if it means it will bring them more customers. I'm also wondering about funding insurance vouchers for everyone based on collections from what - basically a new national sales tax on all good & services? Wouldn't it be an understatement to say that would have a massive impact economically, especially on the lowest income earners? Damn - Throw some well collated thoughts into words and it scares everyone off... At least you're modest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 This isn't a "plan" by any stretch...but you minions eat it right up.... This is probably the most predictable comment in this thread. There are countless posts from you bashing the GOP, asking over and over, "Where's your plan?" Someone puts up a plan and you respond with "That's no plan!!!" You were made for the party of gatorman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Just because Canadians don't pay for health insurance directly, doesn't mean it's free or not already factored into the cost of all products produced in Canada. It's free bro, didn't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It's free bro, didn't you know? Oh, you mean "free" like how the left plans to make college free here in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 This is probably the most predictable comment in this thread. There are countless posts from you bashing the GOP, asking over and over, "Where's your plan?" Someone puts up a plan and you respond with "That's no plan!!!" You were made for the party of gatorman. Don't you know that he is a conservative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 1: Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to. 2: Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up. 3: Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it. 4: Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate 5: Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure. 6: Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources. 7: Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers. #1- Why should citizens in this country not be required to buy insurance? Why should they be able to skip paying premiums, and show up to ED's and get treatment and pass the cost on to the rest of us? Where is the heck is that a conservative principle? Public Responsibility, Individual Freedom? Everybody uses the healthcare system, unless you reference the deranged hermit who actually walks the walk and dies in the woods when he gets sick... When I think of this proposal, I think of the downside of self-interest, people who don't want to pay but always want to get. !@#$ that, I still see people who come in here run up big bills then welch on the promise to pay... millions of dollars, that will be divided up and billed to paying customers next year. horse **** I tell you. #2- Broken records here, but any insurer can sell policies in any State they wish to do business- the State insurance commission oversees insurance activities, I know because complaints about our hospital regarding insurance are investigated by the State, not the Federal Government . Is it any wonder why insurers would be reluctant to market plans in Mississippi? Any why an insurers doing business in Colorado has no interest in selling plans in Mississippi? So again I asked the question, what do State Lines have to do with anything? #3 Okay- but don't we want an aggressive Tax Code reform that is simpler and reduces paperwork? this is another deduction loophole, that doesn't sound like a move in the right direction to me. This sounds like another layer of politician manipulated inefficiency to me #4 You can use HSA today, we used one to cover our deductible expenses when we had ACA exchange plans. I think HSA are a great way to encourage better utilization, and encourage budgeting by individuals for medical expenses. Good point here. #5 You can already get cash prices for test at any facility. It will take you weeks to do it, but you cant get it. The issue with this is its not like buying cable- example, every cancer case is different and each provider at different facilities may recommend different drugs, different mixes, durations of treatment... I just don't think Americans not medically trained can make a good, informed decision based on just price... again, I have argue that Healthcare doesn't behave like a normal market, this is a good example of how it is highly individualized making economies of scale and efficiencies difficult. #6- agreed #7- We subsidize single payor systems around the world on drug prices. Canada buys Lipitor for $1 a pill, versus the US its $10 a pill... why? Because Canada sets a limit on what they are willing to spend, and Pfizer knows they can still sell to Canada at that low price because they still have Americans to gouge- its ridiculous. this is the main issue with not having a cohesive, single payor system in the US- there just is not budget, no cap on what we spend.. just a lot of whining and crying about high costs and any healthcare reform worth a damn being evil socialism. My suggestions are in many threads, go find them if you want to revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 So what's the best way to get as much free $#@! as possible for the lowest possible cost to current and future me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 So what's the best way to get as much free $#@! as possible for the lowest possible cost to current and future me? Feel the Bern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 In a related story, Bernie Sanders supporters explain their candidates renewable energy plan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I find it fascinating that the issue that will likely bankrupt our nation receives such a small amount of air time in our politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I find it fascinating that the issue that will likely bankrupt our nation receives such a small amount of air time in our politics. B, it would be tantamount to admitting that Obamacare is a democrat failure You will not see the media pushing THAT narrative in an election year. No matter how important it is. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 This is crazy!! For all the negative crap in the media, this should be something we celebrate. Modern medicine is really making routine and amazing progress http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/03/07/united-ceo-returns-just-two-months-after-heart-transplant/81428384/ United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz will resume his full-time duties on Monday, March 14 -- just two months after he received a heart transplant. That marks a quick return for Munoz, who took over as United's CEO in September butsuffered a heart attack a month later. That was followed by January's heart transplant procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 This is probably the most predictable comment in this thread. There are countless posts from you bashing the GOP, asking over and over, "Where's your plan?" Someone puts up a plan and you respond with "That's no plan!!!" You were made for the party of gatorman. That was not a plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 That was not a plan No. It was not a plan to you. No plan on the right will be a plan to you because otherwise you won't be able to keep yelling "But where's the plan?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Let's just say "well collated" are in the eye of the beholder. Private insurance is bad, but private healthcare providers good? In what fantasy world do you live in to think that there's going to be an incentive for the providers to cut down costs when they know they're dealing with a government bureaucracy for reimbursement? Just because Canadians don't pay for health insurance directly, doesn't mean it's free or not already factored into the cost of all products produced in Canada. Get back to your thoughts. Private insurance is bad, but private healthcare providers good? There is a difference = Insurance has no incentive to reduce costs - just get more billing. The reimbursement is a lump sum - therefore the HCP goal is to reduce costs to make margin on that lump sum. Who said Canada has free health care? I said a car built in Canada and sold in USA has very little HC costs built into it as it is exported. No. It was not a plan to you. No plan on the right will be a plan to you because otherwise you won't be able to keep yelling "But where's the plan?" So is this just the pre ACA HC structure tweaked? The ACA didn't change the basic structure of HC in the USA. Please tell me how risk is profiled and spread. Do employers still provide for most people, all people, all people at a certain salary level? How do individuals bargain as compared to pooled risk? How do you cover preexisting conditions? How do you cover the poor, the old? How do you spread the varied risk of a lifetime individually? People without insurance left to die - or do we pick up the costs in the ER? Does the Trump plan help our businesses compete internationally? Edited March 7, 2016 by baskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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