KD in CA Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 GMen are loaded with cap room. All depends on the mentality - are they closer to a full scrap or a SB. I think with Eli, they have to try and win now. I think Mario lands here in a VERY un-Giant-like move. Their pass rush was THAT bad.... No question they are in win-now mode and the Giants do love to rush the passer. I think it's a very good fit.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 As per Twitter, Mario is wanting $10M a year and will sign right now with any team that offers it Fins and Giants are interested CBF
Nihilarian Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 I don't think you quite understand Rex Ryan's system or scheme. His front is multiple. Meaning sometimes it's two-gap alignment and sometimes its one-gap alignment. Sometimes, it's both, where the NT has two-gap responsibility and the DE has one-gap. It isn't one thing all the time. They started the season, on the opening play, in a 4-3 under with one-gap alignment. Mario Williams had plenty of one-gap alignment where he was asked to rush the passer and didn't get home. The guy quit. I don't know why you think posting quotes from articles proves your point and I hope you understand that it is possible that the defense disappointed AND Mario Williams quit. How exactly did the 2015 Buffalo Bills defense "merely disappoint" and Mario quit equal with the same front four going from 1st in the NFL in sacks, QB hits, hurries to 31st under Ryan? I realize Ryan switched up his schemes all season and sometimes he actually ran a 4-3 wide nine during games. It was mostly all about gap control almost all of the 2015 season. In Ryan's 3-4, One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. (usually, Mario) That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers. So, even when Ryan ran a base 3-4 he wasn't necessarily running a one-gap scheme and this is what both Mario and Marcell were being vocal about. Dareus was complaining about how he was being utilized in Ryan's scheme since training camp.
GG Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 No question they are in win-now mode and the Giants do love to rush the passer. I think it's a very good fit. The Bills were a perfect fit for Mario. He got paid a lot and had a coach that let him get away with childish behavior. Welcome back to the NFL, Mario. Good luck collecting that $10 million, quitter.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 How exactly did the 2015 Buffalo Bills defense "merely disappoint" and Mario quit equal with the same front four going from 1st in the NFL in sacks, QB hits, hurries to 31st under Ryan? I realize Ryan switched up his schemes all season and sometimes he actually ran a 4-3 wide nine during games. It was mostly all about gap control almost all of the 2015 season. In Ryan's 3-4, One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. (usually, Mario) That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers. So, even when Ryan ran a base 3-4 he wasn't necessarily running a one-gap scheme and this is what both Mario and Marcell were being vocal about. Dareus was complaining about how he was being utilized in Ryan's scheme since training camp. Who said anything about being equal? What are you talking about? It's about both things being possible.You don't need to compare them and assign a weight to them. They both happened. That's it. Ok, to the bold, that's wrong. It depends on how the DL aligns. It isn't the same thing every time. Sometimes he lines up inside of the OT, sometimes he lineups over the OT and sometimes he lines up at the 7-tech or 9-tech. It was multiple, it wasn't the same thing. It wasn't two-gap every time and it if you look at Rex's defenses historically and last year when the defense is in the Nickel, the DE's have one-gap responsibly and are meant to rush the passer. The only exception is on disguised blitzes where they are trying to get a LB a free run. It's not absolute. It's not just Ryan did this and only this.
3rdand12 Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 Just throwing this out there, but is it possible Mario's performance had something to do with his inability to comprehend the playbook? Is it possible he just didn't understand where he was supposed to be or what he was supposed to do on any given play? Here's a sample of a Rex Ryan Defense from 2010 http://www.footballxos.com/download/defense/pro-defense/2010-NY-Jets-Defense-Rex-Ryan.pdf (taken from the other thread on the board). It wouldn't surprise me if Mario, Leodis and others have a tough time grasping the intricacies of this defense and chose to simply act like they were engaged but then found themselves in "no man's land" on certain plays. Great share, Bring Back Fergy. started to read and decided to save to favorites for another time. Thanks ! Who said anything about being equal? What are you talking about? It's about both things being possible.You don't need to compare them and assign a weight to them. They both happened. That's it. Ok, to the bold, that's wrong. It depends on how the DL aligns. It isn't the same thing every time. Sometimes he lines up inside of the OT, sometimes he lineups over the OT and sometimes he lines up at the 7-tech or 9-tech. It was multiple, it wasn't the same thing. It wasn't two-gap every time and it if you look at Rex's defenses historically and last year when the defense is in the Nickel, the DE's have one-gap responsibly and are meant to rush the passer. The only exception is on disguised blitzes where they are trying to get a LB a free run. It's not absolute. It's not just Ryan did this and only this. some folks miss these salient points. not sure why folks keep saying one gap two gap and 3-4 4-3. Not Rexs defense. I am sure it would been easier on the players to play a wide nine of sorts down after down. Keeping it simpleish IS an effective way to get players up to speed quickly/ Rex made a poor judgement on how to run the defense and then switched up admittedly. which i think was another set back. I am sure he was very frustrated the team could not get settled in soon enough.
YoloinOhio Posted March 7, 2016 Author Posted March 7, 2016 As per Twitter, Mario is wanting $10M a year and will sign right now with any team that offers it Fins and Giants are interested CBF haaaaaa. Jacksonville time. The land of Bills quitters awaits.
Nihilarian Posted March 7, 2016 Posted March 7, 2016 Who said anything about being equal? What are you talking about? It's about both things being possible.You don't need to compare them and assign a weight to them. They both happened. That's it. Ok, to the bold, that's wrong. It depends on how the DL aligns. It isn't the same thing every time. Sometimes he lines up inside of the OT, sometimes he lineups over the OT and sometimes he lines up at the 7-tech or 9-tech. It was multiple, it wasn't the same thing. It wasn't two-gap every time and it if you look at Rex's defenses historically and last year when the defense is in the Nickel, the DE's have one-gap responsibly and are meant to rush the passer. The only exception is on disguised blitzes where they are trying to get a LB a free run. It's not absolute. It's not just Ryan did this and only this. The point was the defense didn't just "merely disappoint" and the biggest reason for this was the difference in sacks between 2014 and 2015 and the ranking from overall ranking #4 to #19. The primary reason for that discrepancy was the lack of pass rush due to the scheme. It has to be more then clear that Ryan didn't run a one gap scheme very often or the team would have had more sacks!!! It's also why Mario and Dareus were complaining about the scheme all season! It wasn't just Mario who didn't have as many sacks as it was the entire team and more significantly that entire highly paid defensive line. Plus, you can't compare the Bills 2015 defense to what Ryan did historically simply because last years defense hardly blitzed at all and Ryan was noted in the past for blitzing a lot. As for the bold, it's not wrong and I took that verbatim from an article I linked. It was written by an ex D-line player who played for Bucs and Jets who commented on the Bengals game and as he stated that was the way they ran alignment when they were in a base 3-4. There was a reason why the team went from 1st in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to 31st in 2015 and it had very little to do with the players or their effort.
3rdand12 Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 The point was the defense didn't just "merely disappoint" and the biggest reason for this was the difference in sacks between 2014 and 2015 and the ranking from overall ranking #4 to #19. The primary reason for that discrepancy was the lack of pass rush due to the scheme. It has to be more then clear that Ryan didn't run a one gap scheme very often or the team would have had more sacks!!! It's also why Mario and Dareus were complaining about the scheme all season! It wasn't just Mario who didn't have as many sacks as it was the entire team and more significantly that entire highly paid defensive line. Plus, you can't compare the Bills 2015 defense to what Ryan did historically simply because last years defense hardly blitzed at all and Ryan was noted in the past for blitzing a lot. As for the bold, it's not wrong and I took that verbatim from an article I linked. It was written by an ex D-line player who played for Bucs and Jets who commented on the Bengals game and as he stated that was the way they ran alignment when they were in a base 3-4. There was a reason why the team went from 1st in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to 31st in 2015 and it had very little to do with the players or their effort. maybe the players did not study at nite as much as they could have. Not to be snarky but are sacks the definitive metric? We did get spoiled you know.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) The point was the defense didn't just "merely disappoint" and the biggest reason for this was the difference in sacks between 2014 and 2015 and the ranking from overall ranking #4 to #19. The primary reason for that discrepancy was the lack of pass rush due to the scheme. It has to be more then clear that Ryan didn't run a one gap scheme very often or the team would have had more sacks!!! It's also why Mario and Dareus were complaining about the scheme all season! It wasn't just Mario who didn't have as many sacks as it was the entire team and more significantly that entire highly paid defensive line. Plus, you can't compare the Bills 2015 defense to what Ryan did historically simply because last years defense hardly blitzed at all and Ryan was noted in the past for blitzing a lot. As for the bold, it's not wrong and I took that verbatim from an article I linked. It was written by an ex D-line player who played for Bucs and Jets who commented on the Bengals game and as he stated that was the way they ran alignment when they were in a base 3-4. There was a reason why the team went from 1st in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to 31st in 2015 and it had very little to do with the players or their effort. So now sacks are the only way we measure defenses? I don't really get how you can argue that they didn't disappoint. Whatever adjective you want to use to describe it, last year they didn't reach their goals. I'm not sure why you've changed the argument, to discuss sacks. I don't see the decrease in sack numbers as a valid reason for why Mario Williams decided to quit on the team. As far as Mario Williams play, he gave up. There are numerous plays and examples where he gave up. I'm not sure why you don't see that both things can exist and flat out refuse to believe that Mario Williams quit on his team. And for all Marcel Dareus's complaints, he didn't quit. He was asked to play the 0-tech and had a lot of two-gap responsibilities. Is that where his talents are best suited? No, he would have been better at the 5-tech but injuries forced him to play there. Did he quit on the team because he wasn't playing where he thought he should be? No, he didn't. As for the statement you used from the article, what article? And again, it is one alignment and actually confirms my point. Your whole argument has been that Mario was ALWAYS asked to do what you've stated. That he had to be a two-gap DE the entire season and that doesn't play to his strengths. Do you think Ryan is using base 3-4 in passing situations? Or when they are in Nickel? As I've said before Rex Ryans scheme is multiple. Is there a base 3-4 alignment where Mario was asked to have two-gap responsibilities? Yea, there is. Does that mean it was used on every down of every defense play? No. Here lets look at the Bengals game which you talked about, second series, 4-3 under defense: Mario Williams is lined up on the right hand side, hand in the dirt, at the 7-tech defensive end position. He's actually a bit wider than 7-tech, almost 9-tech. His job is absolutely to rush the passer on this play, which he does. He doesn't get home, but that's not my point because DE don't get a sack every play. My point is he was given plenty of these situations and just did not get home and would quit on plays. Edited March 8, 2016 by Wayne Cubed
YoloinOhio Posted March 8, 2016 Author Posted March 8, 2016 Ok @jasoncoleBR DE Mario Williams told teams he would sign right away if received an offer of $10M per season. #Giants, #Dolphins and #Jaguars interested
Dopey Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Reading comprehension is hard. It was all Rex's fault -- just give up and wait until fall, like I've decided to do. Not worth the effort. I wouldn't blame reading comprehension, just a difference of opinion. IMO Rex should get the bulk of the criticism.
ALF Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Mario's new market value, $5.4M a year, ouch http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-williams/market-value/
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 I am starting to think all this guy ever cared about was money and nothing else...not the team. Nothing CBF
GG Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Ok @jasoncoleBR DE Mario Williams told teams he would sign right away if received an offer of $10M per season. #Giants, #Dolphins and #Jaguars interested Funny how there's no mention of him wanting to go to a winning program. Just show the man the money.
YoloinOhio Posted March 8, 2016 Author Posted March 8, 2016 Funny how there's no mention of him wanting to go to a winning program. Just show the man the money. yep.
hondo in seattle Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 Mario's new market value, $5.4M a year, ouch http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-williams/market-value/ They actually predict he'll sign for about $7m/year. Still, ouch. A dreadful 2015 dropped Mario's market value from the mid 8s to the mid 5s. He should have plenty of interest though, even at age 31, which will likely find him a contract in the $7M per year range when it's all said and done.
Nihilarian Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) So now sacks are the only way we measure defenses? I never said that! We were discussing the one gap scheme vs the two gap and I do belive that you know the difference between the two. That said, you have to know that had the 2015 Buffalo Bills run that one gap scheme more often (that rushes the passer like Wade Phillips scheme) then the Bills would have had far more sacks on the year. Also, the players themselves wouldn't have been complaining about how they were being used in Ryan's sceheme since training camp! The coaches even acknowlagde that they were using Mario in a different way than he had played in the past. D-ine coach Karl Dunbar eve stated that Mario was doing things out there different then what he has done in the past. Ryan. Defensive coordinator Dennis Thurman. Defensive line coach Karl Dunbar. Coaches have supported Williams all season long – possibly to a fault. Their message has never wavered. Dunbar, all smiles, praised the veteran on Thursday. Asked how one of this generation’s best pass rushers can last 54 snaps without one tackle, one hit, one sack, Dunbar reiterated they’re pleased with Williams’ play. “He’s doing a good job of coming off the edge and the quarterback’s getting rid of the ball,” Dunbar said. “It’s kind of hard because the defense we play is predicated on what they give us and who’s going to be the hot guy. Yeah, you wish you had more tackles, you wish you had more sacks. But I think he’s helping our defense based upon the things he’s doing.” Dunbar cited linebacker Manny Lawson’s hit on Dallas’ Kellen Moore – the team’s only registered QB hit in the game – as one such play. Williams covered tight end James Hanna out of the backfield, eliminating the hot read and Moore was walloped. The coach asserts Williams “has been around the quarterback” and didn’t hesitate on if Williams has been giving his all. “Yeah, I think so,” Dunbar said. “He’s out there doing the things we’ve asked him to do. … It’s a little bit different than what he’s done in the past, but I think it’s working for us.” http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/31/marios-swan-song-with-bills-is-near/ The Buffalo Bills coaches don't believe that Mario quit on the year! If you and others think differently then that's fine by me as everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't really get how you can argue that they didn't disappoint. My take is that the 2015 Buffalo Bills defense did more then just dissappoint last year! They were supposed to be great this past year. As in 85 Bears great, as in 2000 Ravens great as in 2013 Seahawks great, as in 2015 Denver Broncos great. Ryan himself stated he had never had this much talent on defense. Rex Ryan and his storied defense was an embarressment to Bills fans in 2015 and If anyone gave up on the year it was Ryan. Funny how there's no mention of him wanting to go to a winning program. Just show the man the money. That is rather sad to hear and it does change my opinion of him. Edited March 8, 2016 by Nihilarian
JohnC Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 That is rather sad to hear and it does change my opinion of him. I don't understand your stance of being disappointed in him because he wants to get as much money as possible. Maybe you are being sarcastic, or maybe not? But why do you think he signed with the Bills in the first place, a team noted for its historical malaise? It was for the money. I don't have much regard for Mario as a person. He is a mercenary. I say that not as a criticism. It is the right approach to take in a ruthless business. I'll say the same thing abut Incognito if he leaves for a better offer. For the most part the notion of player loyalty is a myth as it is for the notion of team loyalty. Each side of the table makes decisions for what is in their best interests. If Mario doesn't go to a team that gives him the best deal he is a fool. The one thing we know about Mario is that he acts in his own best interest. What else does anyone expect him to do?
YoloinOhio Posted March 8, 2016 Author Posted March 8, 2016 @profootballtalk Report: Mario Williams "not in play" for Giants http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/08/report-mario-williams-not-in-play-for-giants/
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