Mario Williams released

[YoloinOhio]

As always, I respect your point of view. It's hard to excuse a player quitting. At the same point, it seems Mario was right about the defense. Rex's scheme killed a great group.

 

It's so hard to find great pass rushers that I almost would rather have a new coach and Mario than keep Rex. But you could argue that Rex's hands off approach allowed Mario to mail it in.

 

Next year will be very interesting. Rex will get his players and Mario will move on. It will be telling to see who has the better year. Words can't express how down I am on Rex's 1st year but still, go Bills.

 

With all due respect Yolo, I think you are making too many excuses for Rex. If a player quits and you are seeing it, you bench him no doubt. If other guys are seeing you aren't holding guys who are quitting accountable, what message is getting sent? Perhaps the reason we had so many terrible penalties was because Rex had zero accountability.

 

And Belichick cut Spikes for missing a meeting before a playoff game.

he didn't cut him, he put him on IR and then didn't re-sign him in FA. I realize the many times Belichik has held players accountable for things like being late. I said I don't know of a time he's had a player of that caliber not try on the field and/or quit on the team, Perhaps he has. I do know he willingly signed one who did.

 

I'm not making any excuses. I just don't see it the same way. Because I wouldn't have put IK out there instead if I was the coach either. My job is to win games, I can send messages in other ways. If Jarius Wynn had been available, maybe I would sit him down. it's just my own opinion.

Edited March 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

As always, I respect your point of view. It's hard to excuse a player quitting. At the same point, it seems Mario was right about the defense. Rex's scheme killed a great group.

 

It's so hard to find great pass rushers that I almost would rather have a new coach and Mario than keep Rex. But you could argue that Rex's hands off approach allowed Mario to mail it in.

 

Next year will be very interesting. Rex will get his players and Mario will move on. It will be telling to see who has the better year. Words can't express how down I am on Rex's 1st year but still, go Bills.

 

With all due respect Yolo, I think you are making too many excuses for Rex. If a player quits and you are seeing it, you bench him no doubt. If other guys are seeing you aren't holding guys who are quitting accountable, what message is getting sent? Perhaps the reason we had so many terrible penalties was because Rex had zero accountability.

 

And Belichick cut Spikes for missing a meeting before a playoff game.

The respect is mutual, Biscuit.

 

But imo, the biggest tragedy about Mario's decision is that, physically and athletically, he has the gifts to excel in that scheme. Nothing he was asked to do was beyond his capability. Perhaps knowing that is what led Ryan to be less apt to bench him. And from a teammate's perspective, it must have been infuriating. A defense is only as good as its weakest link and Mario made himself that much too often. Other players' ability to perform assignments was impacted by his play. There is no escaping that.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[The Big Cat]

he didn't cut him, he put him on IR and then didn't re-sign him in FA. I realize the many times Belichik has held players accountable for things like being late. I said I don't know of a time he's had a player of that caliber not try on the field and/or quit on the team, Perhaps he has. I do know he willingly signed one who did.

 

I'm not making any excuses. I just don't see it the same way. Because I wouldn't have put IK out there instead if I was the coach either. My job is to win games, I can send messages in other ways. it's just my own opinion.

 

Rex's logic to play Mario eludes me. But that doesn't mean I know for sure he was right or wrong to keep playing the guy. I do know that in some respects, I half-hearted Mario was still better than IK or any other available option.

 

I also know, however, that in retrospect, Sammy's call for a player--regardless of who you are--to be cut if you're not doing job...boy...wonder who he might have been talking about...? And if he was talking about Mario, then perhaps the locker room cache did exist to send a message that way.

 

Again, though, to what extent, I don't know. I'm not sure it would have made a difference in the W/L column for the better. It may have cost them a game, though.

[boyst]

Didn't Mario have 5 sacks his last year in Houston and pull a similar stunt to what he just did in 2015? You sure it's the coach and not the player? He should have sat him but his replacement was IK whom would have a hard time starting for Adam Sandler's team in The Longest Yard.

 

Mario is who he is, that was in place long before Rex ever came here. I can remember Rex and Dennis Thurman touting up Mario during OTA's as a specimen who could do it....if he only wanted.

it can be both.

 

it can be the coach and the player.

 

some times when you work with different people you have to find ways to motivate them, help them focus, help them learn, etc. it comes with good management ability. rex and mario likely did not jive well due to differences in personality, among other things, but a good leader and manager - which is what a coach is to embody - can overcome these conflicts to get the most out of about anyone.

 

rex isnt' that leader.

 

further, a good leader also knows when its time to pull the plug. rex weakened his stance in keeping mario in there. if he was my coach i'd be upset that he kept mario in. having 10 players trying and 1 not on the field, as is accused, is terrible. why would i want to be on the field with mario? eventualyl i will question why my coach put him there.

[C.Biscuit97]

Didn't Mario have 5 sacks his last year in Houston and pull a similar stunt to what he just did in 2015? You sure it's the coach and not the player? He should have sat him but his replacement was IK whom would have a hard time starting for Adam Sandler's team in The Longest Yard.

 

Mario is who he is, that was in place long before Rex ever came here. I can remember Rex and Dennis Thurman touting up Mario during OTA's as a specimen who could do it....if he only wanted.

Mario had 5 sacks his last year in Houston and tore his pec in the 5th game. He missed the rest of the season.

 

And before Rex came here, he was a 2nd team all pro DE who was helping out folks during the November Storm.

[Jauronimo]

Didn't Mario have 5 sacks his last year in Houston and pull a similar stunt to what he just did in 2015? You sure it's the coach and not the player? He should have sat him but his replacement was IK whom would have a hard time starting for Adam Sandler's team in The Longest Yard.

 

Mario is who he is, that was in place long before Rex ever came here. I can remember Rex and Dennis Thurman touting up Mario during OTA's as a specimen who could do it....if he only wanted.

Yeah. 5 sacks in 5 games before heading to IR.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Rex's logic to play Mario eludes me. But that doesn't mean I know for sure he was right or wrong to keep playing the guy. I do know that in some respects, I half-hearted Mario was still better than IK or any other available option.

 

I also know, however, that in retrospect, Sammy's call for a player--regardless of who you are--to be cut if you're not doing job...boy...wonder who he might have been talking about...? And if he was talking about Mario, then perhaps the locker room cache did exist to send a message that way.

 

Again, though, to what extent, I don't know. I'm not sure it would have made a difference in the W/L column for the better. It may have cost them a game, though.

Was that the Same Sammy calling out the offense and play calling in the media? Seems like a theme on this team this year.

 

But this happens all the time in NE and Seattle.

The respect is mutual, Biscuit.

 

But imo, the biggest tragedy about Mario's decision is that, physically and athletically, he has the gifts to excel in that scheme. Nothing he was asked to do was beyond his capability. Perhaps knowing that is what led Ryan to be less apt to bench him. And from a teammate's perspective, it must have been infuriating. A defense is only as good as its weakest link and Mario made himself that much too often. Other players' ability to perform assignments was impacted by his play. There is no escaping that.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Haha. I see Mario as similar to Julius Peppers and I think Mario is the best all around DE. They both are known for taking plays off. But are you a better team with a Mario or Peppers? I think you are without a doubt.

[Fan in Chicago]

Being honest about the shortcomings if either, is not an endorsement of the other.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Wise words, dog. Very wise.

[Nihilarian]

You guys talking about the coaches holding the players accountable...and yet they all had no issue whatsoever with Mario's play in the 2015 season. In fact,

 

"Ryan. Defensive coordinator Dennis Thurman. Defensive line coach Karl Dunbar. Coaches have supported Williams all season long – possibly to a fault. Their message has never wavered.

Dunbar, all smiles, praised the veteran on Thursday.

Asked how one of this generation’s best pass rushers can last 54 snaps without one tackle, one hit, one sack, Dunbar reiterated they’re pleased with Williams’ play.

“He’s doing a good job of coming off the edge and the quarterback’s getting rid of the ball,” Dunbar said. “It’s kind of hard because the defense we play is predicated on what they give us and who’s going to be the hot guy. Yeah, you wish you had more tackles, you wish you had more sacks. But I think he’s helping our defense based upon the things he’s doing.”

Dunbar cited linebacker Manny Lawson’s hit on Dallas’ Kellen Moore – the team’s only registered QB hit in the game – as one such play. Williams covered tight end James Hanna out of the backfield, eliminating the hot read and Moore was walloped.

The coach asserts Williams “has been around the quarterback” and didn’t hesitate on if Williams has been giving his all.

“Yeah, I think so,” Dunbar said. “He’s out there doing the things we’ve asked him to do. … It’s a little bit different than what he’s done in the past, but I think it’s working for us.”

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/31/marios-swan-song-with-bills-is-near/

 

The coaches themselves had no problem with what Mario accomplished in 2015 mostly because they didn't ask him to pin his ears back and rush the passer. Instead, they asked him to be mostly a 5 technique DE in Ryan's 3-4 two gap scheme. If you don't comprehend what that entails simply google it.

 

The 2015 Buffalo Bills didn't finish 31st in sacks because of the players or their lack of effort. They finished that poorly because of the scheme the coaches decided to run all season. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

The sad reality here is Bills fans are attempting to reconcile the fact that the team just lost the 2nd best pass rushing DE in the entire 50+ year history of the franchise.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Nihilarian

[CommonCents]

it can be both.

 

it can be the coach and the player.

 

some times when you work with different people you have to find ways to motivate them, help them focus, help them learn, etc. it comes with good management ability. rex and mario likely did not jive well due to differences in personality, among other things, but a good leader and manager - which is what a coach is to embody - can overcome these conflicts to get the most out of about anyone.

 

rex isnt' that leader.

 

further, a good leader also knows when its time to pull the plug. rex weakened his stance in keeping mario in there. if he was my coach i'd be upset that he kept mario in. having 10 players trying and 1 not on the field, as is accused, is terrible. why would i want to be on the field with mario? eventualyl i will question why my coach put him there.

I agree on the benching part, I was in favor of cutting him after the Jets game which he stayed in the locker room. The motivation part is hard to pin on a coach for an individual player. When I think of that I always use Haynseworth and BB as an example...some guys just don't care. Mario has pulled that act a few times now on different teams.

[Jauronimo]

I agree on the benching part, I was in favor of cutting him after the Jets game which he stayed in the locker room. The motivation part is hard to pin on a coach for an individual player. When I think of that I always use Haynseworth and BB as an example...some guys just don't care. Mario has pulled that act a few times now on different teams.

No, he has not.

[CommonCents]

Yeah. 5 sacks in 5 games before heading to IR.

Yeah I stand corrected on that, I got that from Darren Woodsen who was doing a segment on FA's to sign. Sorry wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

[FireChan]

 

For the most part, absolutely.

 

I can't fathom why some people(in particular Big Cat) can't seem or don't want to admit to this.

 

It's not like its some sort of coincidence that EVERYONE'S production on the defense live went down dramatically.

 

However, he was not worth $19 million for what Rex asks him and other defensive lineman to do in his system. Cutting him was a no brainer.

You are talking past each other.

 

Big Cat has admitted the 2015 defense wad comparatively bad and a disappointment.

[Nihilarian]

 

For the most part, absolutely.

 

I can't fathom why some people(in particular Big Cat) can't seem or don't want to admit to this.

 

It's not like its some sort of coincidence that EVERYONE'S production on the defense live went down dramatically.

 

However, he was not worth $19 million for what Rex asks him and other defensive lineman to do in his system. Cutting him was a no brainer.

Plus, the sad fact is that the only guy that does fit in Rex Ryan's 3-4 is DE Jerry Hughes as the "edge pass rusher". Neither Kyle Willams or Marcell Dareus fit in his scheme as neither are nose tackles or DE's. So, all that money paid to Dareus and he isn't going to be getting 10 sacks unless Ryan changes his scheme and the way he uses those players.

 

Then, Dareus has been complaining publically since last season's training camp and it makes me wonder if he would have resigned with Buffalo if he knew how he would be used in Ryan's two gap scheme. He won't be happy again this year unless things change and that doesn't look likely.

[3rdand12]

my guess, he goes to philly to reunite with schwartz.

jim knows Mario. You sure?

Besides the obvious irony in saying 'knucklehead' and a request for moderation in the same sentence, did you just call Bill a knucklehead? Really?

term of endearment i am sure : )

[The Big Cat]

Was that the Same Sammy calling out the offense and play calling in the media? Seems like a theme on this team this year.

 

But this happens all the time in NE and Seattle.

 

Haha. I see Mario as similar to Julius Peppers and I think Mario is the best all around DE. They both are known for taking plays off. But are you a better team with a Mario or Peppers? I think you are without a doubt.

I don't know why you're treating comments to the media as a gotcha moment in your case against a coach who has explicitly stated he won't muzzle his guys. Sammy was also targeted something like two times over the course of two full games at the start of the season. he was absolutely correct in saying that was too few. I think your conveniently conflating targets from the quarterback with scheme and playcalling.

[3rdand12]

That was sickening to watch. He and FJ were my favorite players of the past few seasons. I remember watching plays like those highlighted in that article and trying to convince myself he was just asked to set the edge/line and play contain. I did not want to believe he completely quit out there and was allowed to keep his starting spot. I was hoping it wasn't true but that effort is indefensible. I have lost a lot respect for Mario. Feels sh#$%ty.

I just want folks to realize i told you so. I said it early and often. I kept watching him to believe my eyes. unreal i thought.

I hated to see it too

[FireChan]

I don't know why you're treating comments to the media as a gotcha moment in your case against a coach who has explicitly stated he won't muzzle his guys. Sammy was also targeted something like two times over the course of two full games at the start of the season. he was absolutely correct in saying that was too few. I think your conveniently conflating targets from the quarterback with scheme and playcalling.

Am I right in saying that you think Sammy was calling out Tyrod specifically?

[3rdand12]

If it is this obvious to others that he "quit", why didn't our gutless coach bench him? If they thought he was quitting, it is a huge red flag that they took no action.

 

I was a huge fan of the Rex hire. But man did he suck this season and all of the weaknesses I heard about him came to light.

 

The Bills need a coach to hold players accountable and not be their buddy.

quickly blame someone else has been the mantra.

 

Hey Rex, you f'd this up too btw!

I Appreciate the compliment and I definitely am very down on everything Rex right now. But I respect your post.

 

But we had injuries in 2014. Kiko, who we thought was a god, missed the whole season. McKelvin, our starter missed games. Kyle Williams missed a game.

 

Injuries happen. But we got torched by Brady with everyone healthy. And my main concern is Rex couldn't take advantage of our elite talent he inherited. You don't need to blitz like crazy when you have a great d line.

 

There were some very concerning things about last year's defense. It was an undisplinced, stupid group. And I blame the head coach for a lot of that. You need to pull guys you take penalties that hurt the team. If a guy quits, you pull him. You can't tolerate players thinking that stuff is ok.

 

Mario will be the whole scapegoat for last season. But he was far from the only guy critical of the defense. Dareus was making similar comments in training camp.

and he played representedly early on. He was sooo slow off the ball it was gross to watch

These guys talked themselves out of being their best

Am I right in saying that you think Sammy was calling out Tyrod specifically?

I thought it was Roman honestly

[YoloinOhio]

He doesn't need to kiss any fan's ass. I just thought it was an interesting contrast to Dixon, Gray, and Urbik who all found time to salute the fans upon learning of their release.

 

GO BILLS!!!

he finally tweeted.

 

He tweeted that everyone should go see the movie that Jerry Hughes' iced tea company invested in.

Edited March 4, 2016 by YoloinOhio