Mario Williams released

[section122]

 

After Further Review: Here's the proof that Mario Williams quit on the Bills

 

 

The Dolphins "highlight" has to be the most alarming. The constant defense was that he only checked out after the Jax game. As this shows it started long before that.

 

 

I don't recall too many Rex critics arguing that Mario didn't quit. Any who did are wrong. The scheme utilised him poorly but from the bye on he wasnt even trying.

 

Oops here it is again. One of these highlights was from the Fins game that was before the bye. He dogged it all year long which is in concert with Ty Dunne's article quoting a player saying it started in tc. That would lean more on Mario had already made up his mind more so than the scheme is at fault.

[C.Biscuit97]

I am sure that Mario's agent is well aware of the league GM views of him above and that was the whole reason for the "I'll take a pay cut to stay with my family in buffalo" stuff from last week.

Yolo, Mario is going to get paid. Everyone on that defense minus Manny and the cbs got worse. That is a giant concern going forward.

 

A top 5 unit has become a question mark in one season. And we just got rid of an all pro talent at one of the premium positions in football. Good times.

 

But the Ryans are having a blast going to Sabres games!

[YoloinOhio]

Do you also disagree with the suggestion that Ryan should have benched Mario for poor preference?

yes, because his backup was IK. Had Jarius Wynn been healthy that's a different story. But 1/2 speed Mario is better than full speed IK simply because the opponent still will commit resources and game planning toward him based on his abilities, and that impacts the rest of the defense. And IK isn't even NFL caliber IMO.

 

If it was college then bench him. It's not, so I'm not into teaching lessons if it means reducing the possibility of winning.

Edited March 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[C.Biscuit97]

yes, because his backup was IK. Had Jarius Wynn been healthy that's a different story. But 1/2 speed Mario is better than full speed IK simply because the opponent still will commit resources and game planning toward him based on his abilities. And IK isn't even NFL caliber IMO.

 

If it was college then bench him. It's not, so I'm not into teaching lessons if it means reducing the possibility of winning.

Do you think Belichick would have bench him if he thought he quit? I can't stand Belichick but there's not a doubt in my mind he would. He holds players accountable.

 

And Rex brought that clown in. He wanted to troll the Jets. So cool. Man this season sucked.

Edited March 3, 2016 by C.Biscuit97

[section122]

If it is this obvious to others that he "quit", why didn't our gutless coach bench him? If they thought he was quitting, it is a huge red flag that they took no action.

 

I was a huge fan of the Rex hire. But man did he suck this season and all of the weaknesses I heard about him came to light.

 

The Bills need a coach to hold players accountable and not be their buddy.

gutless is nothing more than hyperbole. Maybe he hoped the effort would come. Maybe Rex thought that as the season went on Mario would realize the quitter label would be troublesome for him, maybe Rex thought a $100 million player couldn't possibly dog it all year long, maybe Rex thought that Mario was his best option, maybe Rex didn't want to play IK more than he absolutely had to. Rex should have benched him, that we are in total agreement. The reason why he didn't we can only guess at. The most common defense and one I can't disagree too strongly with is who else were they going to play? Lavar Edwards or IK Enkempali?

 

Having coached in the past it is a delicate thing to handle your best player that doesn't give full effort. I always favored try hard players over elite talent that dogged it. Then again I was coaching u19 boys travel soccer teams not millionaire professional men. I didn't have millions of people judging my every decision lol.

[Jauronimo]

Do you think Belichick would have bench him if he thought he quit? I can't stand Belichick but there's not a doubt in my mind he would. He holds players accountable.

 

And Rex brought that clown in. He wanted to troll the Jets. So cool. Man this season sucked.

Belichek would have cut the mother-f@#$er! I don't mean release him , he would have stabbed Mario in the face and genitals and bathed in the blood.

[C.Biscuit97]

Belichek would have cut the mother-f@#$er! I don't mean release him , he would have stabbed Mario in the face and genitals and bathed in the blood.

And then wore his bloody clothes on the sidelines!

gutless is nothing more than hyperbole. Maybe he hoped the effort would come. Maybe Rex thought that as the season went on Mario would realize the quitter label would be troublesome for him, maybe Rex thought a $100 million player couldn't possibly dog it all year long, maybe Rex thought that Mario was his best option, maybe Rex didn't want to play IK more than he absolutely had to. Rex should have benched him, that we are in total agreement. The reason why he didn't we can only guess at. The most common defense and one I can't disagree too strongly with is who else were they going to play? Lavar Edwards or IK Enkempali?

 

Having coached in the past it is a delicate thing to handle your best player that doesn't give full effort. I always favored try hard players over elite talent that dogged it. Then again I was coaching u19 boys travel soccer teams not millionaire professional men. I didn't have millions of people judging my every decision lol.

You're right. Gutless is probably too strong. I just think a huge issue with Rex is he doesn't hold his players accountable. Think of all the brain dead penalties we had this year and he just made excuses for them.

 

And as a coach, if you don't bench a guy who "quit", what message are you sending to the rest of the lockerroom?

[section122]

Yolo, Mario is going to get paid. Everyone on that defense minus Manny and the cbs got worse. That is a giant concern going forward.

 

A top 5 unit has become a question mark in one season. And we just got rid of an all pro talent at one of the premium positions in football. Good times.

 

But the Ryans are having a blast going to Sabres games!

You are way too smart of a fan to put this simply on Ryan. Everyone on the defense got worse because their numbers didn't equal 2014 and that is soley Rex's fault?

 

Kyle Williams 6 games in 2015 15 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing a pro bowl dt for more than half the season not effect the defense at all?

 

Aaron Williams 3 games in 2015 15 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing your best safety for 3/4 of the season not effect the defense at all?

 

Stephon Gilmore 12 games in 2015 14 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing your #1 Cb for an extra 2 games not effect the defense at all?

 

Nigel Bradham 11 games in 2015 14 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing one of your best lbs and being forced to start UDFA not effect the defense at all?

 

That is 28 games missed just from 4 MAJOR contributors to the 2014 defense. That doesn't include losing Searcy to FA, Wynn to IR, and McKelvin to his injury recovery. It also doesn't include the half assing of Mario for the ENTIRE year. The defense wasn't as good as any of us hoped but to lay it solely at Rex's feet is lazy at best and doesn't account for all of the other variables.

 

For as bad as Rex supposedly is he coached the Jets (with one of the worst cb situations in the league) to 6th in 2014 - 2 behind the Bills, 11th in 2013 - 1 behind the Bills running Pettine's/his defense, 8th in 2012, 5th in 2011, 3rd in 2010).

So what is more likely? He is a terrible coach that doesn't know how to coach defense? Or injuries and learning a new scheme played a large part in the regression of the defense?

And then wore his bloody clothes on the sidelines!

 

You're right. Gutless is probably too strong. I just think a huge issue with Rex is he doesn't hold his players accountable. Think of all the brain dead penalties we had this year and he just made excuses for them.

 

And as a coach, if you don't bench a guy who "quit", what message are you sending to the rest of the lockerroom?

 

This team has made brain dead penalties for too long to place them at Rex's feet lol. I do agree that he doesn't publicly hold them accountable and it appears privately either. I can't disagree with any of your post. There comes a certain point where you are defencing your guys anymore you are excusing and thus allowing their behavior. I wonder if he will learn from this but don't think he will as he has been doing it this way for so long. He leans on his leaders to do that. When the leader of the d line is the biggest culprit of dogging it he didn't appear to have an answer. Ray Lewis held people in check in Baltimore and likely David Harris (although less demonstratively) in NY. Kyle Williams loss looms large in this role and I think the first NE game was evidence that Aaron Williams wasn't ready to be that guy yet either.

[C.Biscuit97]

You are way too smart of a fan to put this simply on Ryan. Everyone on the defense got worse because their numbers didn't equal 2014 and that is soley Rex's fault?

 

Kyle Williams 6 games in 2015 15 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing a pro bowl dt for more than half the season not effect the defense at all?

 

Aaron Williams 3 games in 2015 15 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing your best safety for 3/4 of the season not effect the defense at all?

 

Stephon Gilmore 12 games in 2015 14 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing your #1 Cb for an extra 2 games not effect the defense at all?

 

Nigel Bradham 11 games in 2015 14 in 2014. Does that effect the defense? Or does missing one of your best lbs and being forced to start UDFA not effect the defense at all?

 

That is 28 games missed just from 4 MAJOR contributors to the 2014 defense. That doesn't include losing Searcy to FA, Wynn to IR, and McKelvin to his injury recovery. It also doesn't include the half assing of Mario for the ENTIRE year. The defense wasn't as good as any of us hoped but to lay it solely at Rex's feet is lazy at best and doesn't account for all of the other variables.

 

For as bad as Rex supposedly is he coached the Jets (with one of the worst cb situations in the league) to 6th in 2014 - 2 behind the Bills, 11th in 2013 - 1 behind the Bills running Pettine's/his defense, 8th in 2012, 5th in 2011, 3rd in 2010).

So what is more likely? He is a terrible coach that doesn't know how to coach defense? Or injuries and learning a new scheme played a large part in the regression of the defense?

I Appreciate the compliment and I definitely am very down on everything Rex right now. But I respect your post.

 

But we had injuries in 2014. Kiko, who we thought was a god, missed the whole season. McKelvin, our starter missed games. Kyle Williams missed a game.

 

Injuries happen. But we got torched by Brady with everyone healthy. And my main concern is Rex couldn't take advantage of our elite talent he inherited. You don't need to blitz like crazy when you have a great d line.

 

There were some very concerning things about last year's defense. It was an undisplinced, stupid group. And I blame the head coach for a lot of that. You need to pull guys you take penalties that hurt the team. If a guy quits, you pull him. You can't tolerate players thinking that stuff is ok.

 

Mario will be the whole scapegoat for last season. But he was far from the only guy critical of the defense. Dareus was making similar comments in training camp.

[The Big Cat]

I Appreciate the compliment and I definitely am very down on everything Rex right now. But I respect your post.

 

But we had injuries in 2014. Kiko, who we thought was a god, missed the whole season. McKelvin, our starter missed games. Kyle Williams missed a game.

 

Injuries happen. But we got torched by Brady with everyone healthy. And my main concern is Rex couldn't take advantage of our elite talent he inherited. You don't need to blitz like crazy when you have a great d line.

 

There were some very concerning things about last year's defense. It was an undisplinced, stupid group. And I blame the head coach for a lot of that. You need to pull guys you take penalties that hurt the team. If a guy quits, you pull him. You can't tolerate players thinking that stuff is ok.

 

Mario will be the whole scapegoat for last season. But he was far from the only guy critical of the defense. Dareus was making similar comments in training camp.

 

We got torched by Brady in 2014 when everyone was healthy too.

Also, I don't think anybody's blaming Mario for the lost season on defense.

 

From my observations, anyone not blaming Rex and Rex alone understands a confluence of factors (including Rex) led to the setback, Mario included, injuries included.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

We got torched by Brady in 2014 when everyone was healthy too.

 

Also, I don't think anybody's blaming Mario for the lost season on defense.

 

From my observations, anyone not blaming Rex and Rex alone understands a confluence of factors (including Rex) led to the setback, Mario included, injuries included.

And we beat Aaron Rodgers without scoring an offensive td.

 

But our defense was just good in 2015 as it was in 2014. No reason for worry. Everything is fine!

[The Big Cat]

But our defense was just good in 2015 as it was in 2014. No reason for worry. Everything is fine!

 

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT

[section122]

I Appreciate the compliment and I definitely am very down on everything Rex right now. But I respect your post.

 

But we had injuries in 2014. Kiko, who we thought was a god, missed the whole season. McKelvin, our starter missed games. Kyle Williams missed a game.

 

Injuries happen. But we got torched by Brady with everyone healthy. And my main concern is Rex couldn't take advantage of our elite talent he inherited. You don't need to blitz like crazy when you have a great d line.

 

There were some very concerning things about last year's defense. It was an undisplinced, stupid group. And I blame the head coach for a lot of that. You need to pull guys you take penalties that hurt the team. If a guy quits, you pull him. You can't tolerate players thinking that stuff is ok.

 

Mario will be the whole scapegoat for last season. But he was far from the only guy critical of the defense. Dareus was making similar comments in training camp.

Big Cat has answered a lot including me at least not completely excusing Rex from the performance of the D. I am just proposing that he was one of the factors not the only factor. I think Mario quitting was huge and Rex's lack of response was also an issue. I think holding up getting torched by Brady is a poor example as Brady regularly does that to Buffalo including in 2014. The last game of the year in 2014 is being discounted due to the sitting players including Brady at half. I will say this though and it is pure conjecture on my part - Rex gave the league the blueprint to beat the Pats* this year. When The Bills and Pats played a 2nd time the Pats got their record to 10-0. After that game they finished 3-5. Injuries did play a part but Rex certainly laid a blueprint down in holding them to 20 points. That was their lowest points scored all year to that point and was the 2nd least allowed all year (Den 18 in AFCCG). The defense wasn't as good in 2015 as 2014 and Rex admitted part of that was trying to play 2 defenses instead of his. I think the injuries played a huge role in that as well. As for Kiko this year showed how him missing in 2014 wasn't as big a deal as we thought as he wasn't as good as any of us thought.

 

Dareus made similar comments in tc then manned up and played hard. Nobody is questioning his effort. Mario quitting and having questionable ethic for a 2nd team is going to be a problem for him going forward. He will certainly get paid but I don't think he will be as sought after this go around as he was last time. His contract certainly won't be anywhere near what it was last time.

[GunnerBill]

 

ops here it is again. One of these highlights was from the Fins game that was before the bye. He dogged it all year long which is in concert with Ty Dunne's article quoting a player saying it started in tc. That would lean more on Mario had already made up his mind more so than the scheme is at fault.

 

He may have had plays off in the first half of the year - but taking individual plays out of context proves absolutely zero. I have been back and watched every singe Bills snap since the season finished. I have watched every single snap in the games we lost twice. There is a very noticeable drop off in effort post Jacksonville. Very noticeable. Disagree if you like but I implore to go and watch as I did. The evidence is there. I believe the numbers support it also.

 

Not saying he was perfect before but for the most part he was trying.

[YoloinOhio]

Do you think Belichick would have bench him if he thought he quit? I can't stand Belichick but there's not a doubt in my mind he would. He holds players accountable.

 

And Rex brought that clown in. He wanted to troll the Jets. So cool. Man this season sucked.

i don't know what Belichik would have done because I don't know if he has had a player of that caliber quit on the team. The only reference point I can think of with Belichik is when LaGarrette Blount publicly quit (literally walked off of the field during a MNF game) on the Steelers, after complaining about playing time, was cut the next day, and Belichik promptly signed him.

 

Every coach wants to win over anything else. If the player who is on the field is better than the alternative, they aren't going to willingly take them off the field. We see this all the time. Sadly the Bills had too many injuries on the DL to have a decent alternative for Mario. The message it sends to the locker room is that Rex wants to win games. I didn't see anyone else quitting, so I don't think the message was its ok to quit. It seemed to me everyone was fully aware of what was going on. The player quotes said it all. They held Mario accountable for his own actions, and didn't hold the coaches accountable for him not trying.

 

Holding them accountable for other things makes sense. But not this. IMO.

Edited March 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

If it is this obvious to others that he "quit", why didn't our gutless coach bench him? If they thought he was quitting, it is a huge red flag that they took no action.

 

I was a huge fan of the Rex hire. But man did he suck this season and all of the weaknesses I heard about him came to light.

 

The Bills need a coach to hold players accountable and not be their buddy.

Rex should have taken control of the situation. No excuse for letting a deliberately ineffectual player remain in the lineup. None.

 

But at least you realize that there are parallel tracks here. Players that quit and poor coaches can exist at the same time. Being honest about the shortcomings if either, is not an endorsement of the other.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eball]

Belichek would have cut the mother-f@#$er! I don't mean release him , he would have stabbed Mario in the face and genitals and bathed in the blood.

Sounds very Donahoe-like.

[boyst]

This is still, imo, mostly on Rex. a good coach is a good manager. anyone with management experience knows how to get the best out of their personnel regardless of the situation. rex failed. miserably on this in many accounts.

 

mario's effort was a direct result of ryans poor management. simple as that. is it excusable for mario to have been a putz? no. but can you blame him? i don't. he wanted out and he knew another two years in this system and he would not be able to get anything decent for a contract. it was stay in buffalo and make good money for another few years with no stats or find your way out and get a good system and payday on your final contract.

 

 

 

@YardsPerPass

And the Sproles/Mario gif you all have been waiting for

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CWX0j0NWEAIyB1o.mp4

 

i don't even know what the complaint is with this? maybe i don't get it and someone can enlighten me.

 

was mario supposed to swallow him up whole Kirby style? was he supposed to shoot fire out of his eyes? you can't just run through a player and there is too much of a chance that the player could have chopped or gone low on him - remember Fred against JJ Watt?

[C.Biscuit97]

Rex should have taken control of the situation. No excuse for letting a deliberately ineffectual player remain in the lineup. None.

 

But at least you realize that there are parallel tracks here. Players that quit and poor coaches can exist at the same time. Being honest about the shortcomings if either, is not an endorsement of the other.

 

GO BILLS!!!

As always, I respect your point of view. It's hard to excuse a player quitting. At the same point, it seems Mario was right about the defense. Rex's scheme killed a great group.

 

It's so hard to find great pass rushers that I almost would rather have a new coach and Mario than keep Rex. But you could argue that Rex's hands off approach allowed Mario to mail it in.

 

Next year will be very interesting. Rex will get his players and Mario will move on. It will be telling to see who has the better year. Words can't express how down I am on Rex's 1st year but still, go Bills.

i don't know what Belichik would have done because I don't know if he has had a player of that caliber quit on the team. The only reference point I can think of with Belichik is when LaGarrette Blount publicly quit (literally walked off of the field during a MNF game) on the Steelers, after complaining about playing time, was cut the next day, and Belichik promptly signed him.

 

Every coach wants to win over anything else. If the player who is on the field is better than the alternative, they aren't going to willingly take them off the field. We see this all the time. Sadly the Bills had too many injuries on the DL to have a decent alternative for Mario. The message it sends to the locker room is that Rex wants to win games. I didn't see anyone else quitting, so I don't think the message was its ok to quit. It seemed to me everyone was fully aware of what was going on. The player quotes said it all. They held Mario accountable for his own actions, and didn't hold the coaches accountable for him not trying.

 

Holding them accountable for other things makes sense. But not this. IMO.

With all due respect Yolo, I think you are making too many excuses for Rex. If a player quits and you are seeing it, you bench him no doubt. If other guys are seeing you aren't holding guys who are quitting accountable, what message is getting sent? Perhaps the reason we had so many terrible penalties was because Rex had zero accountability.

 

And Belichick cut Spikes for missing a meeting before a playoff game.

Edited March 3, 2016 by C.Biscuit97

[CommonCents]

This is still, imo, mostly on Rex. a good coach is a good manager. anyone with management experience knows how to get the best out of their personnel regardless of the situation. rex failed. miserably on this in many accounts.

 

mario's effort was a direct result of ryans poor management. simple as that. is it excusable for mario to have been a putz? no. but can you blame him? i don't. he wanted out and he knew another two years in this system and he would not be able to get anything decent for a contract. it was stay in buffalo and make good money for another few years with no stats or find your way out and get a good system and payday on your final contract.

 

 

i don't even know what the complaint is with this? maybe i don't get it and someone can enlighten me.

 

was mario supposed to swallow him up whole Kirby style? was he supposed to shoot fire out of his eyes? you can't just run through a player and there is too much of a chance that the player could have chopped or gone low on him - remember Fred against JJ Watt?

 

Didn't Mario have 5 sacks his last year in Houston and pull a similar stunt to what he just did in 2015? You sure it's the coach and not the player? He should have sat him but his replacement was IK whom would have a hard time starting for Adam Sandler's team in The Longest Yard.

 

Mario is who he is, that was in place long before Rex ever came here. I can remember Rex and Dennis Thurman touting up Mario during OTA's as a specimen who could do it....if he only wanted.