Mario Williams released

[Best Player Available]

I am sure that Mario's agent is well aware of the league GM views of him above and that was the whole reason for the "I'll take a pay cut to stay with my family in buffalo" stuff from last week.

Why you may be specululating a bit here. it's hard not to believe you haven't hit the nail on the head with your comment. Full damage control by his agent. By the time 94 made that pay cut comment it was already way too late. And he knew it, the fans knew it,and the whole FO knew it.

 

No doubt he will have interest and probably get a decent contract somewhere. In Buffalo he quit on his teammates, the fans, and more importantly himself. he will be remembered more for quitting than his few years of dominating play. Why he wasn't benched last year is a head scratcher.that falls on Ryan. And all the coaches that let it continue. Well managed teams simply do not put up with that crap. The Bills have a ways to go and it's more than players.

 

Were only in it for the money--- Frank Zappa

[CommonCents]

Why you may be specululating a bit here. it's hard not to believe you haven't hit the nail on the head with your comment. Full damage control by his agent. By the time 94 made that pay cut comment it was already way too late. And he knew it, the fans knew it,and the whole FO knew it.

 

No doubt he will have interest and probably get a decent contract somewhere. In Buffalo he quit on his teammates, the fans, and more importantly himself. he will be remembered more for quitting than his few years of dominating play. Why he wasn't benched last year is a head scratcher.that falls on Ryan. And all the coaches that let it continue. Well managed teams simply do not put up with that crap. The Bills have a ways to go and it's more than players.

 

Were only in it for the money--- Frank Zappa

Pretty much sums it up.

[3rdand12]

Why you may be specululating a bit here. it's hard not to believe you haven't hit the nail on the head with your comment. Full damage control by his agent. By the time 94 made that pay cut comment it was already way too late. And he knew it, the fans knew it,and the whole FO knew it.

 

No doubt he will have interest and probably get a decent contract somewhere. In Buffalo he quit on his teammates, the fans, and more importantly himself. he will be remembered more for quitting than his few years of dominating play. Why he wasn't benched last year is a head scratcher.that falls on Ryan. And all the coaches that let it continue. Well managed teams simply do not put up with that crap. The Bills have a ways to go and it's more than players.

 

Were only in it for the money--- Frank Zappa

any one who can quote Zappa is my new BFF.

 

mudshark, and weasels ate my brain, come to mind for some odd reason.

and screw his fridge and the horse it rode it upon. or would that be a pygmy pony?

[Bill from NYC]

 

There's no irony whatsoever in my post, and "knucklehead" is a playful insult -- certainly you know that.

 

Edit: and while I enjoy many of Bill's posts and know he's a huge Bills fan, I don't think his opinions carry any more credibility or weight than others who have been watching this team for decades.

The term "knucklehead" was funny.

 

The edit was not imo because it implies that I am or anyone else is suggesting otherwise. But, make no mistake.....Bills Fans are in a unique situation. Many of us will absolutely cling to any little thing in order to pretend that thinks are OK at OBD. In this case, it's the premise that Rex was a decent coach a few years ago. But facts are facts. The team went down more than 60% in sacks. This "great defensive mind" had a worse record than Marrone, a coach that nobody wants, despite huge offensive improvement, especially at quarterback.

 

If everybody spent hours on end trying to prove to or convince other fans that things are working out well with Rex, this site would suck. It would be a place for science fiction more than for serious football discussion. I mean really, how much idiocy must one witness before putting down the pom-poms?

 

And you are correct. I am a huge fan and a proud one!!! And, I DO see hope in terms of Mr. Pegula owning the team. I do however think that progress will be stunted until he gets rid of the ineffective people on the payroll. He should start with Brandon and work his way down.

 

Just my opinion, NOT an all knowing, phony, stat driven proclamation.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Bill from NYC

[eball]

The term "knucklehead" was funny.

 

The edit was not imo because it implies that I am or anyone else is suggesting otherwise. But, make no mistake.....Bills Fans are in a unique situation. Many of us will absolutely cling to any little thing in order to pretend that thinks are OK at OBD. In this case, it's the premise that Rex was a decent coach a few years ago. But facts are facts. The team went down more than 60% in sacks. This great defensive mind" had a worse record than Marrone, a coach that nobody wants, despite huge offensive improvement, especially at quarterback.

 

If everybody spent hours on end trying to prove to or convince other fans that things are working out well with Rex, this site would suck. It would be a place for science fiction more than for serious football discussion. I mean really, how much idiocy must one witness before putting down the pom-poms?

 

And you are correct. I am a huge fan and a proud one!!! And, I DO see hope in terms of Mr. Pegula owning the team. I do however think that progress will be stunted until he gets rid of the ineffective people on the payroll. He should start with Brandon and work his way down.

 

Just my opinion, NOT an all knowing, phony, stat driven proclamation.

 

Glad you weren't insulted, my friend. I think my point is only that the conversation has largely devolved into a "Rex sucks" vs. "Rex failed last year but he hasn't forgotten how to coach defense" debate, and we can't really decide that question until the team hits the field this fall. The fact that Mario quit on his team isn't an indictment of Rex, it's an indictment of Mario's character.

[BarleyNY]

Glad you weren't insulted, my friend. I think my point is only that the conversation has largely devolved into a "Rex sucks" vs. "Rex failed last year but he hasn't forgotten how to coach defense" debate, and we can't really decide that question until the team hits the field this fall. The fact that Mario quit on his team isn't an indictment of Rex, it's an indictment of Mario's character.

I'm so sick of the Mario "quitting" narrative. The man played in the league for 10 seasons and never had any question of his effort on the field until the very end of last season. That was after his requests regarding his use and scheme had fallen on deaf ears and strong rumors of his impending release were already in the news. Summing up the situation as "he quit" doesn't really capture the situation.

 

But your point about waiting to see the team when they hit the field this year before deciding about Rex certainly has some validity. But I'll be watching closely because what I saw last season was a defensive head coach who utilized a scheme that matched pretty much nobody on his front 7. And I saw that defense suffer for it. Next season I'll be watching to see if the scheme has changed and what the results are, but before that I'll be looking to see what players are swapped out and for whom. That'll give a good indication of the direction the defense is headed.

[Bill from NYC]

 

Glad you weren't insulted, my friend. I think my point is only that the conversation has largely devolved into a "Rex sucks" vs. "Rex failed last year but he hasn't forgotten how to coach defense" debate, and we can't really decide that question until the team hits the field this fall. The fact that Mario quit on his team isn't an indictment of Rex, it's an indictment of Mario's character.

I have no problem at all with the above. Under no conditions was it excusable for Mario to quit.

 

That said, what I saw last year was very strange, SO strange that I am unable to come to a conclusion that Rex didn't totally lose whatever coaching ability he appears to have once possessed. In this sense, I see it as somewhat natural that the thread spun off in this direction.

 

Remember, we were going to be "bullies," right? Instead, Rex had 100 million dollar, brutal pass rushers spinning, dancing, and running into coverage, including 350 or more pound Marcel Dareus. I need to watch a return to aggressive, non-Jauron football before I am sold on what has happened to this defense, and my hopes were set back when they hired Rex's brother.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[26CornerBlitz]

@PFWeekly

The Way We Hear It: #Cowboys, Giants, Bucs interested in Mario Williams, Charles Johnson http://shawurl.com/2g4i

[eball]

I'm so sick of the Mario "quitting" narrative. The man played in the league for 10 seasons and never had any question of his effort on the field until the very end of last season. That was after his requests regarding his use and scheme had fallen on deaf ears and strong rumors of his impending release were already in the news. Summing up the situation as "he quit" doesn't really capture the situation.

 

 

Dead. Wrong. Reports of Mario "quitting" go back to training camp, and even when the Bills signed him there were whispers regarding his motivation if everything didn't go his way.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Let your eyes be the judge. No words necessary.

[BarleyNY]

Dead. Wrong. Reports of Mario "quitting" go back to training camp, and even when the Bills signed him there were whispers regarding his motivation if everything didn't go his way.

That's ridiculous. Please show me so e examples of these concerns from that time.

 

And if people suggest a wait-and-see-how-Rex-does-this-season approach for him, then I suggest the same for Mario. I suspect he will be back to form if used properly.

Edited March 4, 2016 by BarleyNY

[FireChan]

 

Let your eyes be the judge. No words necessary.

Mario blew up the play. What are you talking about?

[Dorkington]

Even Jerry and Marcell stopped on that play, bleh.

 

*edit, a lot of players pulled up/watched prematurely, what the hell.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Dorkington

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'm so sick of the Mario "quitting" narrative. The man played in the league for 10 seasons and never had any question of his effort on the field until the very end of last season. That was after his requests regarding his use and scheme had fallen on deaf ears and strong rumors of his impending release were already in the news. Summing up the situation as "he quit" doesn't really capture the situation.

 

This link was posted in another thread but is a propos here:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/25503327/after-further-review-heres-the-proof-that-mario-williams-quit-on-bills

Prisco quotes 3 GMs as saying that Mario's effort on tape was very bad - not "at the very end of the season, after...." ....just bad. Prisco pulls up examples from the Dolphins game.

 

As far as the "fallen on deaf ears" thing.... it really isn't Mario (or any players) place to publically question the coaching and scheme. Make your case in the DL room or in private with the coaches. On the field, buy in shut up and play.

That's ridiculous. Please show me so e examples of these concerns from that time.

 

And if people suggest a wait-and-see-how-Rex-does-this-season approach for him, then I suggest the same for Mario. I suspect he will be back to form if used properly.

 

That may be so, but I suspect Mario will be signing a 1 year "prove it" deal for a lot less than $12.9M or at least up to $12.9M only with incentives. No one wants a big-bucks player who claims the right to decide how much effort he'll put out based upon whether he likes his role well enough or the D scheme or the phase of the moon or...

[BarleyNY]

 

Let your eyes be the judge. No words necessary.

Couple observations on that play. Mario's responsibility appeared to be the RB, which he got to quickly. He appeared to pick up Cousins with the ball after it was probably too late to get to him, but he didn't exactly chase the play either. He did his primary job and that was pretty much it. There was no extra effort. While that's not exactly quitting, it obviously isn't what you want from your players. Of course, this was from the end of the season too (3rd last game) and I've already mentioned that I knew Mario was dogging it - and why I thought he was. He was frustrated with his use specifically and the scheme in general, he knew he wasn't going to be a Bill next year and he was probably protecting his health for free agency. I'd have a much different opinion of the situation if I: A) didn't think he was correct about his misuse and scheme and B) had ever seen this behavior from him before. Mario was the Bills' best player for three seasons and never created any issues. When he was healthy and in a 4-3 for the Texans the same was true. So grabbing the pitchforks and torches and going after him doesn't make any sense to me.

 

If the Bills had hired Hue Jackson and Schwartz remained as DC we wouldn't be having this conversation. Mario would have still been lighting it up and the big issue would have been how to afford to keep him and the rest of the defense together. Scapegoating Mario is easy, but it ignores the real problem - a defensive scheme ill-suited to the talent on the front seven. Mario was an easy player to release, but there are others that don't fit the scheme that aren't. Dareus and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon due to their contracts, but they don't fit either. All of that money (and cap space) poured into a defense is being wasted. That's the real problem and it hasn't gone anywhere.

[Nihilarian]

Couple observations on that play. Mario's responsibility appeared to be the RB, which he got to quickly. He appeared to pick up Cousins with the ball after it was probably too late to get to him, but he didn't exactly chase the play either. He did his primary job and that was pretty much it. There was no extra effort. While that's not exactly quitting, it obviously isn't what you want from your players. Of course, this was from the end of the season too (3rd last game) and I've already mentioned that I knew Mario was dogging it - and why I thought he was. He was frustrated with his use specifically and the scheme in general, he knew he wasn't going to be a Bill next year and he was probably protecting his health for free agency. I'd have a much different opinion of the situation if I: A) didn't think he was correct about his misuse and scheme and B) had ever seen this behavior from him before. Mario was the Bills' best player for three seasons and never created any issues. When he was healthy and in a 4-3 for the Texans the same was true. So grabbing the pitchforks and torches and going after him doesn't make any sense to me.

 

If the Bills had hired Hue Jackson and Schwartz remained as DC we wouldn't be having this conversation. Mario would have still been lighting it up and the big issue would have been how to afford to keep him and the rest of the defense together. Scapegoating Mario is easy, but it ignores the real problem - a defensive scheme ill-suited to the talent on the front seven.

 

Mario was an easy player to release, but there are others that don't fit the scheme that aren't. Dareus and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon due to their contracts, but they don't fit either. All of that money (and cap space) poured into a defense is being wasted. That's the real problem and it hasn't gone anywhere.

Amen, brother!

 

Although I almost wonder if this past season's defensive scheme was contrived to make Mario look bad so it would make things easier to release him without the fanbase going berserk. Recall the 100+ thread of Bills fans anticipating his signing with Buffalo. Bills fans went nuts over his signing and most were so disappointed in the defense under Dave Wannstedt. Then we all revealed in Pettine's scheme that came in at #2 in sacks. For some reason now sacks don't seem to be a big deal with the fans base anymore and I can only suspect because that it's because #4 defense didn't take the team to the super bowl.

 

I also agree that if Hue Jackson had been hired (which is what I have read that Doug Whaley was pushing for) and the team had retained Jim Schwartz as DC for 2015. (Tyrod Taylor aside) I believe that this years team would have not only made the playoffs but put a serious claim on not only the division title but the AFC Championship title.

 

My greatest hope for this team is that these new owners finally hire that NFL experienced senior advisor / czar / team president of football operations to take Russ Brandon and the owners themselves out of the teams football decisions as neither are qualified to make those decisions!

[26CornerBlitz]

Couple observations on that play. Mario's responsibility appeared to be the RB, which he got to quickly. He appeared to pick up Cousins with the ball after it was probably too late to get to him, but he didn't exactly chase the play either. He did his primary job and that was pretty much it. There was no extra effort. While that's not exactly quitting, it obviously isn't what you want from your players. Of course, this was from the end of the season too (3rd last game) and I've already mentioned that I knew Mario was dogging it - and why I thought he was. He was frustrated with his use specifically and the scheme in general, he knew he wasn't going to be a Bill next year and he was probably protecting his health for free agency. I'd have a much different opinion of the situation if I: A) didn't think he was correct about his misuse and scheme and B) had ever seen this behavior from him before. Mario was the Bills' best player for three seasons and never created any issues. When he was healthy and in a 4-3 for the Texans the same was true. So grabbing the pitchforks and torches and going after him doesn't make any sense to me.

 

If the Bills had hired Hue Jackson and Schwartz remained as DC we wouldn't be having this conversation. Mario would have still been lighting it up and the big issue would have been how to afford to keep him and the rest of the defense together. Scapegoating Mario is easy, but it ignores the real problem - a defensive scheme ill-suited to the talent on the front seven. Mario was an easy player to release, but there are others that don't fit the scheme that aren't. Dareus and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon due to their contracts, but they don't fit either. All of that money (and cap space) poured into a defense is being wasted. That's the real problem and it hasn't gone anywhere.

 

Sure they do!

[Maury Ballstein]

Mario blew up the play. What are you talking about?

Probably the part where Kirk Cousins galloped right past him as he sat there.

 

Nice hit on that monster Matt Jones.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[Wayne Cubed]

Dareus and Hughes aren't going anywhere anytime soon due to their contracts, but they don't fit either.

 

This is a ridiculously incorrect statement. Hughes and Dareus fit the scheme perfectly. Hughes is the prototypical Rush End/LB in Rex's scheme and Dareus, when playing the 5-tech DE, is perfect for the scheme too. The problem with Dareus was when Kyle went down, Rex moved him to a 0-tech NT. They'll go searching for a NT in the offseason.

[BarleyNY]

This link was posted in another thread but is a propos here:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/25503327/after-further-review-heres-the-proof-that-mario-williams-quit-on-bills

Prisco quotes 3 GMs as saying that Mario's effort on tape was very bad - not "at the very end of the season, after...." ....just bad. Prisco pulls up examples from the Dolphins game.

 

As far as the "fallen on deaf ears" thing.... it really isn't Mario (or any players) place to publically question the coaching and scheme. Make your case in the DL room or in private with the coaches. On the field, buy in shut up and play.

 

That may be so, but I suspect Mario will be signing a 1 year "prove it" deal for a lot less than $12.9M or at least up to $12.9M only with incentives. No one wants a big-bucks player who claims the right to decide how much effort he'll put out based upon whether he likes his role well enough or the D scheme or the phase of the moon or...

On the former statement, it depends on what he was asked to do on the plays where he was "dancing". Believe it or not, sometimes defensive linemen have responsibilities other than rushing the passer. Sometimes their job is to maintain a pocket but not push it. That often goes hand in hand with asking them to try to deflect passes at the LOS, something Mario looked to be trying to do. Maybe he was given those kinds of responsibilities so often that he became frustrated. Or maybe he didn't like the scheme and dogged it all season. I don't know. But he sure seems to be more of a symptom of the Bills' ills than he was a cause. Would anyone care to respond to that? You know, the thing where the whole rest of the defense fell off so precipitously.

 

As for Mario's next deal, I'm less interested in that than I am in his production and fit with his next team. At worst, a low (for him) show-me deal will have substantial incentives. He will get paid if he performs. He might get paid regardless as there are a lot of team with huge amounts of cap space available. And I'm also very interested to see how the defense performs next season.

Amen, brother!

 

Although I almost wonder if this past season's defensive scheme was contrived to make Mario look bad so it would make things easier to release him without the fanbase going berserk. Recall the 100+ thread of Bills fans anticipating his signing with Buffalo. Bills fans went nuts over his signing and most were so disappointed in the defense under Dave Wannstedt. Then we all revealed in Pettine's scheme that came in at #2 in sacks. For some reason now sacks don't seem to be a big deal with the fans base anymore and I can only suspect because that it's because #4 defense didn't take the team to the super bowl.

 

I also agree that if Hue Jackson had been hired (which is what I have read that Doug Whaley was pushing for) and the team had retained Jim Schwartz as DC for 2015. (Tyrod Taylor aside) I believe that this years team would have not only made the playoffs but put a serious claim on not only the division title but the AFC Championship title.

 

My greatest hope for this team is that these new owners finally hire that NFL experienced senior advisor / czar / team president of football operations to take Russ Brandon and the owners themselves out of the teams football decisions as neither are qualified to make those decisions!

 

Man, I hope it goes that way too. It's reasonable to expect some growing pains with new NFL owners (even if they were already was an NHL owners). I hope the Pegulas learn from everything and come out better for it.