BillsVet Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Teams managed well have cap flexibility to handle the unexpected. It's why GMs and their personnel people get paid so well. Incognito outplayed his 1 year deal and has one final chance to earn a NFL paycheck, so I'd expect him to make high demands. Naturally, the Bills have almost zero leverage because they're razor thin at guard and RI's agent knows this full well. If the Bills use the draft again to replace departed players, either UFAs or those players released for cap reasons, it should signal the personnel folks are incompetent.
thebandit27 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Richie was not a standard street FA. Perhaps not, but he was still a guy that hadn't played a down of football in 20 months when they signed him. The point is that ever year there are serviceable guards available for relatively low investments. this is going to piss off half of us no matter what happens. Without speaking to dollars, this is more of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush kinda situation. We was what he did under Roman and Kromer, next to Glenn and Wood. He did pretty darned alright. I am not qualified to talk dollars or contract I hear you, and I would indeed like to keep him. The problem is that the salary cap is built for teams to afford ~6 premium contracts total. Right now, offensively, we're paying McCoy, Glenn, and Dareus. We're close to premium on Wood and Aaron Williams as well. Knowing that we need to pay Sammy, a QB (perhaps it'll be Tyrod), and Gilmore coming up, some tough decisions need to be made, and guard is not a premium position for investment. My guess is that Aaron will eventually go once Gilmore's new contract kicks in and Wood will be asked to restructure as well.
FireChan Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Perhaps not, but he was still a guy that hadn't played a down of football in 20 months when they signed him. The point is that ever year there are serviceable guards available for relatively low investments. I hear you, and I would indeed like to keep him. The problem is that the salary cap is built for teams to afford ~6 premium contracts total. Right now, offensively, we're paying McCoy, Glenn, and Dareus. We're close to premium on Wood and Aaron Williams as well. Knowing that we need to pay Sammy, a QB (perhaps it'll be Tyrod), and Gilmore coming up, some tough decisions need to be made, and guard is not a premium position for investment. My guess is that Aaron will eventually go once Gilmore's new contract kicks in and Wood will be asked to restructure as well. Really? Who were the serviceable guards available for low investments in 2014? Or 2013? Or hell, besides Richie in 2015? Not to come at you, but this is the team that signed Chris Williams for $13M with $3.5M GTD, and we cut him in one year. I find the "easy to find" line touted quite a bit, even when the Bills have spent 2 years trotting out garbage at G. Either it's not that easy to find a serviceable replacement, or the guys looking are totally incompetent. Edited March 2, 2016 by FireChan
eball Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 I have no idea what's going on behind closed doors, but since Richie did apparently enjoy playing in Buffalo and does recognize it was the Bills who gave him a shot, I think it would be reasonable for the Bills to tell Richie, "go out and test the market, but come back to us before you sign somewhere else and we'll see if we can make it work (or very close to it)".
apuszczalowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Why are they low balling a guy they can resign for 5-6 million?? He's worth more than the 1 million they are saving...they can RE-sign him for 5-6million? Really? You know what he is asking for? When did you start working in the Bills front office?
thebandit27 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Really? Who were the serviceable guards available for low investments in 2014? Or 2013? Or hell, besides Richie in 2015? Not to come at you, but this is the team that signed Chris Williams for $13M with $3.5M GTD, and we cut him in one year. I find the "easy to find" line touted quite a bit, even when the Bills have spent 2 years trotting out garbage at G. Either it's not that easy to find a serviceable replacement, or the guys looking are totally incompetent. 2013 Matt Slauson - Chi ($3.2M per) Donald Thomas - Ind ($3.5M per) Ramon Foster - Pit ($1.9M per) 2014 Geoff Schwartz - NYG ($4M per) Jon Asamoah - Atl ($4.5M per) Shawn Lauvao - Was ($4.1M per) Last year there was Richie, Willie Colon, Jah Reid, and a few others. This year you've got Evan Mathis, Brandon Brooks, Geoff Scwhartz (again), Alex Boone, and Jahri Evans. Obviously, we can draw the line about what's "low investment" wherever you'd like, but my point is simply that they need to hold the line on Richie's value.
Webster Guy Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Should have been a 3 year deal from the beginning with incentives. He was desperate to sign on somewhere, that's when you use leverage Doug. Now he has all the leverage, and he's 33 coming off a pro bowl year as a FA. I would take the most cash if I were him, just because he's probably only got 2 seasons left until he starts breaking down. Sadly, this might come down to keeping Kyle or keeping Richie.
eball Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Should have been a 3 year deal from the beginning with incentives. He was desperate to sign on somewhere, that's when you use leverage Doug. Now he has all the leverage, and he's 33 coming off a pro bowl year as a FA. I would take the most cash if I were him, just because he's probably only got 2 seasons left until he starts breaking down. Sadly, this might come down to keeping Kyle or keeping Richie. Dude, Incognito was the riskiest of risks last year. You and everyone else would have been howling to fire Whaley if he had committed to more than one season. Put the pipe down.
TheFunPolice Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 I don't blame Richie for wanting to cash in now. This is it for him. He missed a solid 2 years of his career when he was in his prime earning years. You can't expect him to play at this level more than 1-2 more seasons at age 33. He likely wants to make up some missed cash, because after this contract he's pretty much going to be done. I would pay him $5 million for 2 years and no more than that personally.
3rdand12 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Really? Who were the serviceable guards available for low investments in 2014? Or 2013? Or hell, besides Richie in 2015? Not to come at you, but this is the team that signed Chris Williams for $13M with $3.5M GTD, and we cut him in one year. I find the "easy to find" line touted quite a bit, even when the Bills have spent 2 years trotting out garbage at G. Either it's not that easy to find a serviceable replacement, or the guys looking are totally incompetent. My point was that Bills don't seem to have that skill set !! I have no idea what's going on behind closed doors, but since Richie did apparently enjoy playing in Buffalo and does recognize it was the Bills who gave him a shot, I think it would be reasonable for the Bills to tell Richie, "go out and test the market, but come back to us before you sign somewhere else and we'll see if we can make it work (or very close to it)". Best we can hope for eh , Eball ?
YoloinOhio Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Dude, Incognito was the riskiest of risks last year. You and everyone else would have been howling to fire Whaley if he had committed to more than one season. Put the pipe down. i thought the same thing when I read that post. A 3 year contract would have looked ridiculous at the time. The Bills were roundly criticized for even signing him at all. And I don't think we can really criticize the terms of that contract or the upcoming deal without knowing what took place during the negotiations last year and what is taking place now. We are all just guessing. Edited March 2, 2016 by YoloinOhio
papazoid Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 ritchie deseves 2 years / $10 mil GUARANTEED with incentives at a minimum. sign a 3 yr / $20 mil deal where the 3rd year can be voided.
thebandit27 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 ritchie deseves 2 years / $10 mil GUARANTEED with incentives at a minimum. sign a 3 yr / $20 mil deal where the 3rd year can be voided. What is this based on? You want to pay him more than any other 33-year old FA guard has ever been paid, and you want to do it based on one year of play?
TheFunPolice Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 2 yrs/$10 million. Guarantee the entire contract.
White Linen Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 I have no idea what's going on behind closed doors, but since Richie did apparently enjoy playing in Buffalo and does recognize it was the Bills who gave him a shot, I think it would be reasonable for the Bills to tell Richie, "go out and test the market, but come back to us before you sign somewhere else and we'll see if we can make it work (or very close to it)". Even in this scenario how would our front office verify that he's in fact getting the offers his agent tells us? Tough situation - where we'd have to call their bluff at that time too.
thebandit27 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 2 yrs/$10 million. Guarantee the entire contract. Well, I've been preaching the fully-guaranteed route for a few weeks now. I wouldn't hand him $10M fully-guaranteed though. I don't think he should get more guaranteed money than Boling, who got $5M gtd last offseason at 26 years old. I would say the max value I'd hand out in a fully-guaranteed contract to Richie is $8M over two years.
3rdand12 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Well, I've been preaching the fully-guaranteed route for a few weeks now. I wouldn't hand him $10M fully-guaranteed though. I don't think he should get more guaranteed money than Boling, who got $5M gtd last offseason at 26 years old. I would say the max value I'd hand out in a fully-guaranteed contract to Richie is $8M over two years. Okay. I like that Bandit! looking forward to comparing that to the offer sheet. start the guarantee at five at let it get walked up !
iinii Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Markets are volatile to say the least and as we know with the draft, all it takes is one. Read "Lords of the Realm"
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 @MatthewFairburn Pardon the Interruption: Richie Incognito owes Buffalo Bills nothing http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2016/03/pardon_the_interruption_richie_incognito_owes_buffalo_bills_nothing.html
eball Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Even in this scenario how would our front office verify that he's in fact getting the offers his agent tells us? Tough situation - where we'd have to call their bluff at that time too. Agents can't afford to lie to teams.
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