Gugny Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Fluffy statistics are whatever statistics that do not back up Gungy's point of view. Or they're really great performances leading to the 16th straight year of no playoffs.
Saxum Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 1 - not sure what EJ has to do with Taylor's long term deal but I'll answer. If Taylor was EJ's size, I would definitely feel better about him. I don't like smaller Qbs. 95% of the time, they don't substain. 2 - I hated our defense but it was far from horrendous. It was the main reason we won the Tennessee and Dallas games. Our offense was brutal in both of those games. There is no need to rush into a deal. He needs another year to prove it. Our offense was built around him not throwing a lot which doesn't thrill me if I'm giving a qb $15 million/ year. I know you hate him, but at this point, Taylor is closer to Manuel (minus the turnovers which is huge) than he is Rodgers. He will get paid if he produces with more on his plate. He was a game manager who was capable of big plays. TT took a contract which paid him less for ability to compete for starter's position, an opportunity he was not getting elsewhere so I get impression he is a gambler with self confidence so Bills should be looking at offering him a short-term incentive-based contract but also be willing to use an early draft pick on QB to back him up if he either decides to look elsewhere, hold out or is injured. Tyler is more than manager which is shown by the accuracy on deep balls but he needs to work with QB coach during offseason who understands how to maximize his skill set in NFL.
3rdand12 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Fluffy statistics are whatever statistics that do not back up Gungy's point of view. Yes I think many posters have a allergy to facts. Perhaps I am not fannish enough for I try to look at both sides of every debate and am willing to change my point of view when there are facts do not fit. An example is E=mc2 except when in very, high gravity fields; there were some scientists for years who would refuse to look at any evidence to contrary and had a physics professor who would put questions on that formula and mark off anyone who provides any answer in which it was not an absolute. I think you have made the point, that theories although viable at one time are meant to be dissected as new information becomes available. The evolution of thinking is fluid. As is knowledge. As Copernicus may have suggested. " its all about the shade of the lense Brah " Or they're really great performances leading to the 16th straight year of no playoffs. well there is that . Tyrod is an upgrade form EJM and then Snortin' Orton. Can he continue his ascension ? I think he can lead. Stay tuned is all i can suggest for each and all of us.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Noooooooooo ! Wait to make sure he doesn't stink next year. Suck it up. This is a good move.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 TT took a contract which paid him less for ability to compete for starter's position, an opportunity he was not getting elsewhere so I get impression he is a gambler with self confidence so Bills should be looking at offering him a short-term incentive-based contract but also be willing to use an early draft pick on QB to back him up if he either decides to look elsewhere, hold out or is injured. Tyler is more than manager which is shown by the accuracy on deep balls but he needs to work with QB coach during offseason who understands how to maximize his skill set in NFL. Taylor got paid like a backup qb, which he was. We have options if does take the next step. We can tag him or sign him halfway through the season if he is showing himself to be a franchise qb. You really think he will turn down a huge payday 8 games into the season? I doubt it. And his numbers were essentially Alex Smith's, the definition of game manager. We beat one team with a winning record. I would consider a guy a franchise type guy if I could see him winning a shootout against a top qb. At this point, I don't see Taylor as that guy. No reason he can't but he's not there yet. Why rush into a dumb contract? To get Fitzed again (who I did like)? How many Fins fans are thrilled they locked up Tannehill for big money?
Prickly Pete Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 An example is E=mc2 except when in very, high gravity fields; there were some scientists for years who would refuse to look at any evidence to contrary and had a physics professor who would put questions on that formula and mark off anyone who provides any answer in which it was not an absolute. yeah, I was thinking the same thing...it's just like that.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Suck it up. This is a good move. Yea I know. Anytime you can sign a guy who throws for 216 ypg its a big win.
section122 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Taylor got paid like a backup qb, which he was. We have options if does take the next step. We can tag him or sign him halfway through the season if he is showing himself to be a franchise qb. You really think he will turn down a huge payday 8 games into the season? I doubt it. And his numbers were essentially Alex Smith's, the definition of game manager. We beat one team with a winning record. I would consider a guy a franchise type guy if I could see him winning a shootout against a top qb. At this point, I don't see Taylor as that guy. No reason he can't but he's not there yet. Why rush into a dumb contract? To get Fitzed again (who I did like)? How many Fins fans are thrilled they locked up Tannehill for big money? I would prefer to avoid the tag situation altogether. Franchise tag for a qb is north of 20 million. I wouldn't want to pay that to Tyrod unless he straps the Bills on his back. Not play well enough to win but be the difference and reason they win. I would prefer floating him a few extra million next year and add an additional year. Then the contract can be renegotiated if the circumstances you describe happen. This would allow the team to avoid using the tag and be insurance for both sides. All of this of course is assuming that Tyrod is interested in talking deal, if he wants to bet on himself the Bills have no choice but to let him play out next year. All of this said I wouldn't be working on this until I had the rest of the off season taken care of. I like that they floated it but don't want to see them do it too quickly this off season. Yea I know. Anytime you can sign a guy who throws for 216 ypg its a big win. Russell Wilson signed his deal last off season for 4 years 87.5 million. He threw for 217 ypg, same amount of tds in 2 more games, and had a slightly lower completion % than Tyrod had this year. Over his career to that point He averaged 207.3 ypg. Was it a mistake for the Seahawks to sign him? IF and it is a big IF Tyrod is resigned it will be because of what they think he will be not what he is right now. Unless you think he is a finished product.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Yea I know. Anytime you can sign a guy who throws for 216 ypg its a big win. It is hard to argue that he isn't the best Bills QB since, at worst, Bledsoe. You can also argue Flutie but it is possible the Tyrod is the best Bills QB since Kelly. There is no reason to think that he won't improve. In his first year starting his QB rating was 7th in the league. We have been over this a million times but selectively picking passing yards to try to prove a point is pretty ridiculous. He was 5th in the league in YPA. What that means is if every QB had the same number of passing attempts he would have been 5th in the league in yards. The Bills are a run first team though and led the league in rushing. TT played a major role in that too. Cam Newton was the only QB to rush for more yards. Look, there is no need to be bitter that he turned out to be a way better player than the guy that you hitched your wagon too. There is no shame in that. You don't need to try to discredit his accomplishments to make you less wrong about EJ. It doesn't work that way. I was fine with the Whitner pick. He wasn't my 1st choice but I liked the player. We are all wrong sometimes. If you need to see more before agreeing to an extension fine. To act like he isn't the best option in over a decade is asinine.
3rdand12 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 yeah, I was thinking the same thing...it's just like that. string theory and chaotic mathematics are your specialty too! Fantastico! Quantum physics is so 90s. don't you agree? you avatar speaks Druid to me but whatevs. all good. takes a village and all that. I would prefer to avoid the tag situation altogether. Franchise tag for a qb is north of 20 million. I wouldn't want to pay that to Tyrod unless he straps the Bills on his back. Not play well enough to win but be the difference and reason they win. I would prefer floating him a few extra million next year and add an additional year. Then the contract can be renegotiated if the circumstances you describe happen. This would allow the team to avoid using the tag and be insurance for both sides. All of this of course is assuming that Tyrod is interested in talking deal, if he wants to bet on himself the Bills have no choice but to let him play out next year. All of this said I wouldn't be working on this until I had the rest of the off season taken care of. I like that they floated it but don't want to see them do it too quickly this off season. Russell Wilson signed his deal last off season for 4 years 87.5 million. He threw for 217 ypg, same amount of tds in 2 more games, and had a slightly lower completion % than Tyrod had this year. Over his career to that point He averaged 207.3 ypg. Was it a mistake for the Seahawks to sign him? IF and it is a big IF Tyrod is resigned it will be because of what they think he will be not what he is right now. Unless you think he is a finished product. This is where i get queasy. I hope they are just pushing it out another year or so. This bridge thing that some have mentioned. If he works out next year he will need to get paid soon enough. By someone
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) It is hard to argue that he isn't the best Bills QB since, at worst, Bledsoe. You can also argue Flutie but it is possible the Tyrod is the best Bills QB since Kelly. There is no reason to think that he won't improve. In his first year starting his QB rating was 7th in the league. We have been over this a million times but selectively picking passing yards to try to prove a point is pretty ridiculous. He was 5th in the league in YPA. What that means is if every QB had the same number of passing attempts he would have been 5th in the league in yards. The Bills are a run first team though and led the league in rushing. TT played a major role in that too. Cam Newton was the only QB to rush for more yards. Look, there is no need to be bitter that he turned out to be a way better player than the guy that you hitched your wagon too. There is no shame in that. You don't need to try to discredit his accomplishments to make you less wrong about EJ. It doesn't work that way. I was fine with the Whitner pick. He wasn't my 1st choice but I liked the player. We are all wrong sometimes. If you need to see more before agreeing to an extension fine. To act like he isn't the best option in over a decade is asinine. I'd argue Fitz was better but played on a much worse offense team. Tyrod is a big play waiting to happen but we were 2nd worse in 3 and outs (which hurts a defense). He was a game manager and didn't turn the ball over. There are plenty things to be excited about. But we are talking about paying a guy big time money as qb where we tried to limit the amount of times we threw the ball. Think about that for a second. Far too many under 200 yard passing days and squeaking out wins against Kellen Moore. Smart teams don't freak out over 14 games. If worst case scenario, we have to tag him, so be it. I'd rather be more sure about a guy and pay him $20 million and hope to work out a long term deal than have another Fitz situation. P.s. Saying he's the best qb since Bledsoe is a silly reason to pay someone. It's like saying this average looking girl is better than all the terrible looking ones I dated before her so I should just marry her. Edited February 26, 2016 by C.Biscuit97
Maury Ballstein Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) It is hard to argue that he isn't the best Bills QB since, at worst, Bledsoe. You can also argue Flutie but it is possible the Tyrod is the best Bills QB since Kelly. There is no reason to think that he won't improve. In his first year starting his QB rating was 7th in the league. We have been over this a million times but selectively picking passing yards to try to prove a point is pretty ridiculous. He was 5th in the league in YPA. What that means is if every QB had the same number of passing attempts he would have been 5th in the league in yards. The Bills are a run first team though and led the league in rushing. TT played a major role in that too. Cam Newton was the only QB to rush for more yards. Look, there is no need to be bitter that he turned out to be a way better player than the guy that you hitched your wagon too. There is no shame in that. You don't need to try to discredit his accomplishments to make you less wrong about EJ. It doesn't work that way. I was fine with the Whitner pick. He wasn't my 1st choice but I liked the player. We are all wrong sometimes. If you need to see more before agreeing to an extension fine. To act like he isn't the best option in over a decade is asinine. He went full Trenative vs the pats and then got pantsed vs Bradford and Cousins with the season on the line. I'll hold my praise for a bit. Comparing him to Ej, losman etc is a cool exercise i guess. It wasn't that long ago. He's okay. He's better than Hoyer, Fitz, And Kellen Moore I'll sign off on that. Watkins had to hold a press conference to demand the ball after being ignored by this amazing qb of ours. Just throw it to 14 all the time, easy street. Hopefully he studies some Cousins tape and gets rid of the damn ball next season. Watkins 2nd half vs Chiefs still has me scratching my head. Edited February 27, 2016 by Ryan L Billz
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I'd argue Fitz was better but played on a much worse offense team. Tyrod is a big play waiting to happen but we were 2nd worse in 3 and outs (which hurts a defense). He was a game manager and didn't turn the ball over. There are plenty things to be excited about. But we are talking about paying a guy big time money as qb where we tried to limit the amount of times we threw the ball. Think about that for a second. Far too many under 200 yard passing days and squeaking out wins against Kellen Moore. Smart teams don't freak out over 14 games. If worst case scenario, we have to tag him, so be it. I'd rather be more sure about a guy and pay him $20 million and hope to work out a long term deal than have another Fitz situation. P.s. Saying he's the best qb since Bledsoe is a silly reason to pay someone. It's like saying this average looking girl is better than all the terrible looking ones I dated before her so I should just marry her. He didn't throw a lot because that's not how Roman builds an offense. The yards are directly related to number of attempts. It is like saying, "Watkins only had 40 yards and Beckham had 150." If Watkins was only targeted once and Beckham 18 times he should have more yards. That was the kind of stuff Beckham was doing late in his rookie year. It is a product of opportunity. The yardage argument can be thrown out in the discussion for that reason. He gets 7.99 yards per attempt. Maybe if his attempts shot up his yards per attempt would go with it but we don't know that for sure. He can throw the ball down the field so maybe it will. I'm not rushing to sign him to an extension to be clear. I'm okay with it either way. I was just responding to a point that someone was trying to make that yards per game is how to judge a QB. It isn't. How many plays do they make? How many mistakes do they make? How efficient are they? All of those things make up a good QB. He makes a lot of plays, he makes very few mistakes and he is efficient. With that being said, his game has some holes. He didn't use the middle of the field until the last game of the year. He tried too hard at times to make the big play instead of the right play. Those are things that can be improved upon. There is absolutely reason to be optimistic. He had started 14 games in this league now and was good enough to be the 7th rated passer and earn a Pro Bowl trip. Say what you want about the Pro Bowl but it is an accomplishment. We have been looking for a competent QB forever as you noted. Last year we got good QB play and he has a chance to be even better. The skill set is there and always has been. The production was there when given the opportunity. It remains to be seen if he becomes a great QB but he is at worst a middle of the league guy which is an upgrade from where we've been.
Saxum Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 P.s. Saying he's the best qb since Bledsoe is a silly reason to pay someone. It's like saying this average looking girl is better than all the terrible looking ones I dated before her so I should just marry her. No any girl who is willing to marry you should not be married; she proved to you she has bad taste.
Charles Romes Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) What does he make now? $2M for one more yr. I would extend to $14M 2 yrs, $5M guaranteed. Gives TT assurance against a career ending injury, Bills more time to see if he's the one. Edited February 26, 2016 by Charles Romes
Saxum Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I'd argue Fitz was better but played on a much worse offense team. Tyrod is a big play waiting to happen but we were 2nd worse in 3 and outs (which hurts a defense). He was a game manager and didn't turn the ball over. There are plenty things to be excited about. But we are talking about paying a guy big time money as qb where we tried to limit the amount of times we threw the ball. Think about that for a second. Far too many under 200 yard passing days and squeaking out wins against Kellen Moore. Smart teams don't freak out over 14 games. If worst case scenario, we have to tag him, so be it. I'd rather be more sure about a guy and pay him $20 million and hope to work out a long term deal than have another Fitz situation. Fritz is a game manager but Tyrod is not; a game manager can beat you slowly with paper cuts taking what defense gives you. Tyrod's weakness is the short game and it was compounded by lack of practice with WRs and RBs who kept getting injured in camp. I agree about not tagging and paying Tyrod $20M though for he can not carry a team at this point.
8-8 Forever? Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Most likely a reasonable deal that protects them. yep. nothing dumb getting done. why not talk now. if it doenst work out then we wait... TT has often mentioned how much he looked at Flacco as a mentor. I wonder if, given how Flacco made a bet on himself in a contract year instead of signing an early extension (and won), that plays into what TT is thinking at this time? Would he rather do a safer bridge deal or risk it and see if he can really cash in next year? Clearly there is more risk though for him than there was for Flacco, who was going to get a sizable contract either way as a 1st round pick who had been to the playoffs already. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/25/bills-to-delve-more-into-tyrod-taylor-extension-talks-this-week/ eeeeeeeyep
FireChan Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 It is hard to argue that he isn't the best Bills QB since, at worst, Bledsoe. You can also argue Flutie but it is possible the Tyrod is the best Bills QB since Kelly Orton. There is no reason to think that he won't improve. In his first year starting his QB rating was 7th in the league. We have been over this a million times but selectively picking passing yards to try to prove a point is pretty ridiculous. He was 5th in the league in YPA. What that means is if every QB had the same number of passing attempts he would have been 5th in the league in yards. The Bills are a run first team though and led the league in rushing. TT played a major role in that too. Cam Newton was the only QB to rush for more yards. Look, there is no need to be bitter that he turned out to be a way better player than the guy that you hitched your wagon too. There is no shame in that. You don't need to try to discredit his accomplishments to make you less wrong about EJ. It doesn't work that way. I was fine with the Whitner pick. He wasn't my 1st choice but I liked the player. We are all wrong sometimes. If you need to see more before agreeing to an extension fine. To act like he isn't the best option in over a decade is asinine. FTFY.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 FTFY.I liked Orton a lot more than most but Tyrod is way better. He made more plays and less mistakes.
FireChan Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 I liked Orton a lot more than most but Tyrod is way better. He made more plays and less mistakes. Perhaps, but IMO Orton was a better field general and leader in the huddle, and going through his reads. As you'd expect from a 10+ year vet vs. first year starter. I think you could argue Orton wins more games than Tyrod in 2015.
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