Josina Anderson: Mario open to pay cut to stay with Bills

[JohnC]

Motivation and focus is another thing with Rex.

 

He has it with some games and lacks it with others and it trickles down to the rest of the team.

If your coach lacks it then it isn't surprising that the team lacks it.

[The Big Cat]

1st to 31st in sacks with the same personnel.

 

Rex SUCKED in 2015. Get over it. 2016 is a new year. Let's hope everyone gets on the same page and we find a pass rush and the defense improves.

 

It WAS NOT the same personnel. That's categorically and unquestionably false. And if your premise revolves around it being true, I would encourage you to reconsider.

 

 

 

What would you consider a successful season for the 2016 Bills defense?

 

Would it go by overall ranking, PPG, YPG, sacks?

 

How about improving from 31st to 29th in sacks? Will you tell us all we should recognize Rex's genius if that happens?

 

Should Rex be measured against any objective criteria like those or should we find players to blame if the whole thing craters like Rex's last 5 or 6 years running?

 

If the defense is ranked 25th next year and we make the playoffs, I won't care and neither will you.

Give up man.

 

It's like talking to a wall.

 

At least I'm a wall grounded in reality.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

How often have you considered alternative explanations?

 

 

I have engaged and put counter argument. Your response was to tell me you didn't know why I supported the team if it made me miserable.... so I'll be off now going to see if I can get a Broncos jersey online.... cos they are the champs right?

[Jauronimo]

 

It WAS NOT the same personnel. That's categorically and unquestionably false. And if your premise revolves around it being true, I would encourage you to reconsider.

 

 

If the defense is ranked 25th next year and we make the playoffs, I won't care and neither will you.

 

At least I'm a wall grounded in reality.

Personnel wise, the defensive unit was about as consistent from the prior season as you're going to get in the NFL. Lost Spikes and Searcy, gained Darby. Returned 8 starters anyway you slice it and that doesn't include McKelvin or Graham. All 4 starting linemen, 2 starting LBs, one corner, and one safety. Losing a 2 down at best run stuffer and a decent safety isn't a major change in the unit.

[The Big Cat]

 

I have engaged and put counter argument. Your response was to tell me you didn't know why I supported the team if it made me miserable.... so I'll be off now going to see if I can get a Broncos jersey online.... cos they are the champs right?

 

 

You keep characterizing my argument as binary. I imagine since yours is, you assume everyone else see things as either or. I don't. And none of my positions here would suggest I do. I can't help you understand that. But here, I'll give it a whirl.

 

Reasons why I think the Bills underperformed in 2015 in order:

1. Lack of talent/experience at QB
2. Injuries
3. Lack of talent at LB/S
4. Difficulty adapting to scheme/adapting scheme to players

Reasons you think Bills underperformed in 2015 in order:

1. Rex sux

[4merper4mer]

 

It WAS NOT the same personnel. That's categorically and unquestionably false. And if your premise revolves around it being true, I would encourage you to reconsider.

 

 

 

Sack master Searcy left. The Titans sack total must have skyrocketed....let me check. Yup. They went from 39 sacks to 39 sacks.

 

 

If the defense is ranked 25th next year and we make the playoffs, I won't care and neither will you.

 

 

 

Although that is true, that is not what I asked. Denver won the Super Bowl but I doubt very many people would say their offense had a successful season. I also don't think people would say Antonio Brown had a bad season because the Steelers didn't. There must be some objective measurement by which a defense can be judged right?

[The Big Cat]

The Front four WAS the same personnel... Up until week 7 when Kyles got hurt. Still up to that point they were towards the bottom of the league in sacks.

 

Hahaha, and again reality rears its ugly head. Williams got injured halfway through week 6.

 

Otherwise, if you're not changing your argument from PERSONNEL WAS THE SAME! to FOUR OF THE 11 PLAYERS WERE THE SAME! Okay, sure. Got me there. But that's not what we were discussing.

[The Big Cat]

 

Sack master Searcy left. The Titans sack total must have skyrocketed....let me check. Yup. They went from 39 sacks to 39 sacks.

 

 

 

 

Although that is true, that is not what I asked. Denver won the Super Bowl but I doubt very many people would say their offense had a successful season. I also don't think people would say Antonio Brown had a bad season because the Steelers didn't. There must be some objective measurement by which a defense can be judged right?

 

I honestly don't know. Rex's defenses have rarely put up gaudy stats. So where they rank statistically seems secondary to whether or not they were effective. And I would argue they were effective more often than not last year, and I'll point you again to the analysis I did that showed how long stretches of offensive inactivity MUST be considered when looking at what impacted wins and losses most last year.

 

Rex's defense will be good enough to win games in 2016, I believe this to be true and I believe it was the case last year. Whether or not we have a winning season and/or make the playoffs will be MAINLY the result of TT improving.

 

So, your question to me about what the defense has to do to make us a winner is a losing proposition. Because if TT plays like he did last year, they'll HAVE to be top-8 to even sniff the playoffs.

Don't forget Brandon Spikes.... Who is currently unemployed.

Ah no. Kyle got injured half way through week 7.

 

And my point was the sacks/pressures/beating the **** out of the opposing QB which goes a longgggg way.

 

We did a ton of that in 2014 and very little to none of that in 2015. What changed?

 

Besides Spikes and Searcy? Lol.

 

Dude go back and look at the game logs. Jesus: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillKy20/gamelog/2015/

[eball]

One thing is clear to me -- Mario doesn't really care about whether or not the Bills win. He likes his teammates, he likes the area, and wants to be "comfortable." A coach who challenges him to do something different? Not interested. Mario knows best.

 

Bringing Mario to Buffalo was a good thing and he played some very good football for the Bills, but right now it's time for Mario to leave.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

 

You keep characterizing my argument as binary. I imagine since yours is, you assume everyone else see things as either or. I don't. And none of my positions here would suggest I do. I can't help you understand that. But here, I'll give it a whirl.

 

Reasons why I think the Bills underperformed in 2015 in order:

1. Lack of talent/experience at QB
2. Injuries
3. Lack of talent at LB/S
4. Difficulty adapting to scheme/adapting scheme to players

Reasons you think Bills underperformed in 2015 in order:

1. Rex sux

 

 

Which simply proves you haven't read any of my posts on the subject with any objectivity.

 

And if you really think the reason the defense was bad because of Tyrod... then I honestly do not know what to say.

[The Big Cat]

 

Which simply proves you haven't read any of my posts on the subject with any objectivity.

 

And if you really think the reason the defense was bad because of Tyrod... then I honestly do not know what to say.

 

Well, I never said the defense was bad because of Tyrod, so you'll have to please excuse my ongoing skepticism of your reality.

[3rdand12]

The D has to get better this year. No question about it. It starts up front and then immediately behind that front.

Agreed.

I watched too many times Kyle and even Mario yelling at Brown and Bradham to see if they knew the play. I have said Rex has no excuses this coming year. But neither will the players. And Rex is right in thinking Coach to player communication needs to improve a ton.

I take that to mean , not just each down.

 

Anyone consider Brown was not making the correct call? and that why the coaches were rushing the call in so late. We saw confusion in the secondary early in the season too. They settled down mostly. And moving Lawson , who is a very smart player helped too.

Ryan and Thurman did not fix it quick enough for sure. So the poor showing is on the coaches overall. They have to own it.

 

And i dont know if i sit Mario down or not. IK was next up. I have thought about that more than once.

One thing is clear to me -- Mario doesn't really care about whether or not the Bills win. He likes his teammates, he likes the area, and wants to be "comfortable." A coach who challenges him to do something different? Not interested. Mario knows best.

 

Bringing Mario to Buffalo was a good thing and he played some very good football for the Bills, but right now it's time for Mario to leave.

I still question if it was such a "good" thing. It was very exciting for all of us at the time.

And when the whole line was reigning terror it was awesome! But financially just not sure.

[GunnerBill]

 

Well, I never said the defense was bad because of Tyrod, so you'll have to please excuse my ongoing skepticism of your reality.

 

No but if we are talking about Mario then how the hell is the offense relevant.

 

You are contorting yourself into knots changing arguments left and centre and I'm not sure why.

[The Big Cat]

 

No but if we are talking about Mario then how the hell is the offense relevant.

 

You are contorting yourself into knots changing arguments left and centre and I'm not sure why.

 

I haven't changed my argument once.

[4merper4mer]

 

I honestly don't know. Rex's defenses have rarely put up gaudy stats. So where they rank statistically seems secondary to whether or not they were effective. And I would argue they were effective more often than not last year, and I'll point you again to the analysis I did that showed how long stretches of offensive inactivity MUST be considered when looking at what impacted wins and losses most last year.

 

Rex's defense will be good enough to win games in 2016, I believe this to be true and I believe it was the case last year. Whether or not we have a winning season and/or make the playoffs will be MAINLY the result of TT improving.

 

So, your question to me about what the defense has to do to make us a winner is a losing proposition. Because if TT plays like he did last year, they'll HAVE to be top-8 to even sniff the playoffs.

 

 

You still don't understand my question I guess. It should be easy to understand.

 

Is there any objective measurement or standard to which you'd hold the defense in order for you to consider them a success?

 

You can't blame the QB for the defenses failures for Pete's sake. You have to put a stake in the ground. That doesn't mean you can't make some assumptions about performance of the O. I understand if you want to say "points allowed on drives of 50 yards or more" meaning they weren't put in a bad position by a turnover or something, but you have to be realistic. If not, you can always find someone else to blame. Blaming Tyrod Taylor for the 2015 defense is no more realistic than crediting Kyle Orton for the success of the 2014 defense.

Edited February 26, 2016 by 4merper4mer

[Rockinon]

Nearly everyone is assuming that Mario will be gone, but this Clay restructure leaves the door open for other restructures to increase cap space. Not likely in Mario's case but the possibility is there now.

 

I keep thinking about how the Bills defeated the Jets at the end of the year. They cut the dogs loose and harassed that offensive line pretty good. Just wondering if the Bills aren't looking for a way to keep him and are perfectly happy letting the media think what ever they want.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Rockinon

[The Big Cat]

 

 

You still don't understand my question I guess. It should be easy to understand.

 

Is there any objective measurement or standard to which you'd hold the defense in order for you to consider them a success?

 

You can't blame the QB for the defenses failures for Pete's sake. You have to put a stake in the ground. That doesn't mean you can't make some assumptions about performance of the O. I understand if you want to say "points allowed on drives of 50 yards or more" meaning they weren't put in a bad position by a turnover or something, but you have to be realistic. If not, you can always find someone else to blame. Blaming Tyrod Taylor for the 2015 defense is no more realistic than crediting Kyle Orton for the success of the 2014 defense.

 

I understand the question perfectly. And I answered it. I think it's foolhardy to latch onto a stat and create a pass fail standard based on an arbitrary guess on what they should do. Doing so only gets you the result that you want.

 

And since Rex's defenses have been ranked in the top 10, but since posters don't want that to be true, they'll unearth other stats to disprove those stats and holler and scream about why that ranking doesn't tell the whole story, but theirs does.

 

So, for the sake of constructive dialogue, it's a losing proposition to "put a stake in the ground" when I don't know what changes they'll make to personnel in the offseason, but I do know that any measurement of success I propose will be roundly rejected by the same 3-5 people who seem to have the utmost difficulty with the concept that many factors contributed to a disappointing 2015.

[4merper4mer]

 

I understand the question perfectly. And I answered it. I think it's foolhardy to latch onto a stat and create a pass fail standard based on an arbitrary guess on what they should do. Doing so only gets you the result that you want.

 

And since Rex's defenses have been ranked in the top 10, but since posters don't want that to be true, they'll unearth other stats to disprove those stats and holler and scream about why that ranking doesn't tell the whole story, but theirs does.

 

So, for the sake of constructive dialogue, it's a losing proposition to "put a stake in the ground" when I don't know what changes they'll make to personnel in the offseason, but I do know that any measurement of success I propose will be roundly rejected by the same 3-5 people who seem to have the utmost difficulty with the concept that many factors contributed to a disappointing 2015.

 

If I read that right I get: Rex's detractors are biased but you're objective therefore you will not choose any objective measurement at all and stick to subjective assessments. Then why not just declare the 2016 a success right now? Awesome.

 

Listen, I get that no single stat proves anything. Make it as complex as you want but at least something that can be measured. If you don't want to do that make it simple like saying the Bills must be ranked in the top 30 in at least one defensive stat for the year to be considered a success.

 

I kind of agree that putting stats out there isn't the best way. For me the eyeball test told me all I needed to see about our 2015 defense. Some of the stats were worse than what I would have thought and some seemed better. But the defense sucked. And now Rex is already throwing players under the bus preemptively for 2016. That does not bode well.

[Dopey]

 

Engage with fantasy? It didn't happen.

Wow!

[The Big Cat]

 

If I read that right I get: Rex's detractors are biased but you're objective therefore you will not choose any objective measurement at all and stick to subjective assessments. Then why not just declare the 2016 a success right now? Awesome.

 

Listen, I get that no single stat proves anything. Make it as complex as you want but at least something that can be measured. If you don't want to do that make it simple like saying the Bills must be ranked in the top 30 in at least one defensive stat for the year to be considered a success.

 

I kind of agree that putting stats out there isn't the best way. For me the eyeball test told me all I needed to see about our 2015 defense. Some of the stats were worse than what I would have thought and some seemed better. But the defense sucked. And now Rex is already throwing players under the bus preemptively for 2016. That does not bode well.

 

It does seem as if Rex detractors are immovably bias, yes. And that I've been painted as somebody with zero qualms about the man and his coaching style shows how far one has to go to prove his hatred of the man. To me, those people come off as a tad illogical. Yes. I have no problem saying this.

 

Here's what I was thinking, but I have no data to support whether is reasonable or not: if by the end of the year, our opponents are held to 85% or less of what their season averages are for points and yards, then the defense will be a success. How's that?

Ok sorry.

 

He played through 6 games and had 1 sack.

 

Again, my point was the lack of pass rush all year which you ignored.

 

He didn't play through six games. He was injured during the Bengals game. He did not finish that game. We all have to be on the same page here about the way things actually happened.

 

Your point was that they fell in sack rankings with the same personnel. That's what you said.

If you meant for your point to be that there was a lack of pass rush, okay. I'm happy to discus why we think that is. I won't, however, profess to have THE answer. And your insistence that you do--that it's about Rex and nothing else, I think is silly.

Edited February 26, 2016 by The Big Cat