Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 I keep wondering when the department of justice will do an investigation of the NFL (due to monopoly) http://weakonomics.com/2013/04/26/the-nfl-is-the-purest-monopoly-in-the-world/
machine gun kelly Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Absolutely wrong. Players have ten years to start going back to school without losing credits they earned. There is also absolutely nothing preventing them from continuing their education while in the nfl. The mere act of "staying in school" means nothing to how well they do after college, the last time I looked they don't give you a job because you graduated. The desire and forethought to plan for life after football is way more complicated than "I have a degree so I'll be ok". Guys - If you read my statement, i didn't say anyone should mandate the players graduate. My opinion is it is a mistake not to graduate. If they can do it in their off season, fine, but unfortunately too many players outspend their income and when it's over, they eventually run out of cash. Of three of the Bucs players that lived next to me or in my neighborhood (all three are out now), two of them have spent it all. You can't make people make good decisions, and it is their right to screw up. One of my neighbors was a RB down here, and had 5 cars. One of them was a Rolls Royce. Too bad as he is a really nice guy, but has blown all of his money from the game.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 Guys - If you read my statement, i didn't say anyone should mandate the players graduate. My opinion is it is a mistake not to graduate. If they can do it in their off season, fine, but unfortunately too many players outspend their income and when it's over, they eventually run out of cash. Of three of the Bucs players that lived next to me or in my neighborhood (all three are out now), two of them have spent it all. You can't make people make good decisions, and it is their right to screw up. One of my neighbors was a RB down here, and had 5 cars. One of them was a Rolls Royce. Too bad as he is a really nice guy, but has blown all of his money from the game. I don't disagree with any of that. I think that the solution though comes with the NFL helping these player's manage their money. Maybe they have a list of financial advisors recommended by the NFL? If you give some kid who came from nothing $2M at age 19 he would have no idea what to do with it. The people that he trusts the most have no idea what to do with it either. I am 34 years old and have an MBA and if you gave me $2M right now I would not know the best place for it. I would probably turn it over to my financial guy but he is a friend from when we were younger. I don't know if he is very good at his job. The players need the guidance and mentorship from those who do know what to do with that kind of money. The league has tried (and all leagues have) recently to help with this. The NFL is certainly in the roughest situation though. The player's get paid less than in other sports and their contracts are not guaranteed. It is much easier for an NFL player to go broke than it is for an NBA or MLB player.
machine gun kelly Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 So they should wait and risk injury? They have a chance to make a lot of money and in many cases they come from nothing. I couldn't disagree more that they should be required to graduate. Maybe the NFL and NFLPA can negotiate a portion of the salary cap that is a mandatory retirement plan? That makes some sense. As an example if the players get 47% of the shared revenue each year, the other 3% is conservatively invested and divided evenly amongst all NFL players. The roughly 1,800 players play in the NFL each year would be entitled to their share. If the cap is $154M each year league shared revenues are roughly $310M or so. That would mean that 3% per player would come to roughly $171K per year in the retirement fund. Even if it is 1.5% it would be $85.5k. Again, these are rough numbers but if the NFLPA is really concerned about their players well being it makes some sense. Take a low end on the salary, but push for a couple of points on the retirement. Kirby, they do have a decent retirement program, and is measured by how long they played, and so on. It's older players that get next to nothing. If memory serves, any player from prior to 1993 really got screwed compared to these guys. I appreciate your thoughts on their retirement issue. The sad part is so many people giving these kids bad advice, and they revolve their entire future on a game where the average player makes it 3.5 years. Even the studs like our Sammy Watkins as an example, is one knee injury away from the end of his football career. I certainly hope that never happens to a player, but it happens. The good news is i have worked for years with guys who are ex-NFL players who have made it in medical device sales. They make a great living, and work hard. It's a nice pearl on a resume, because it speaks to their competitive nature, work ethic, and desire for success.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 Kirby, they do have a decent retirement program, and is measured by how long they played, and so on. It's older players that get next to nothing. If memory serves, any player from prior to 1993 really got screwed compared to these guys. I appreciate your thoughts on their retirement issue. The sad part is so many people giving these kids bad advice, and they revolve their entire future on a game where the average player makes it 3.5 years. Even the studs like our Sammy Watkins as an example, is one knee injury away from the end of his football career. I certainly hope that never happens to a player, but it happens. The good news is i have worked for years with guys who are ex-NFL players who have made it in medical device sales. They make a great living, and work hard. It's a nice pearl on a resume, because it speaks to their competitive nature, work ethic, and desire for success. It is funny that you say this because I have a really good friend that was an NFL player that is in medical device sales. He was like the ultimate bubble guy. He was on 7 teams in 6 years. Basically bounced around from PS to PS. He is 35 now and making a good bit of money. He is a smart guy though and sort of an exception to the rule. I agree with everything that you are saying. I guess that my thought was based on the average player playing 3.5 years. If you use the numbers earlier at 3.5 years you are talking about $600K in retirement for that player (plus health insurance). I don't know what the plan is and as bad as this sounds it is probably too late for the former guys. If they can help these guys now to avoid situations like the one that you referenced earlier it would be a good thing.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I don't disagree with any of that. I think that the solution though comes with the NFL helping these player's manage their money. Maybe they have a list of financial advisors recommended by the NFL? If you give some kid who came from nothing $2M at age 19 he would have no idea what to do with it. The people that he trusts the most have no idea what to do with it either. I am 34 years old and have an MBA and if you gave me $2M right now I would not know the best place for it. I would probably turn it over to my financial guy but he is a friend from when we were younger. I don't know if he is very good at his job. The players need the guidance and mentorship from those who do know what to do with that kind of money. The league has tried (and all leagues have) recently to help with this. The NFL is certainly in the roughest situation though. The player's get paid less than in other sports and their contracts are not guaranteed. It is much easier for an NFL player to go broke than it is for an NBA or MLB player. Woah! The corollary to the players getting paid less than the NBA and MLB players is that the NFL pays almost as many players as those two leagues combined.
jahbonas Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Does anyone here even care that we just got $2 million added to our cap?
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 Woah! The corollary to the players getting paid less than the NBA and MLB players is that the NFL pays almost as many players as those two leagues combined. Right, I was more getting at their guaranteed salaries. If you sign a deal in the NBA for 4 years and $44M dollars you are getting $44M dollars. If you sign a deal in the NFL for 4 years and $44M with $16M fully guaranteed your contract is really $16M with the ability to earn another $28M.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Right, I was more getting at their guaranteed salaries. If you sign a deal in the NBA for 4 years and $44M dollars you are getting $44M dollars. If you sign a deal in the NFL for 4 years and $44M with $16M fully guaranteed your contract is really $16M with the ability to earn another $28M. And again, that's a product of how many players there are in the league. If the NFL went fully guaranteed with their contracts, they just wouldn't sign guys to 4yr $44M. They'd sign them to 4 yrs, $16M with escalators.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 And again, that's a product of how many players there are in the league. If the NFL went fully guaranteed with their contracts, they just wouldn't sign guys to 4yr $44M. They'd sign them to 4 yrs, $16M with escalators. I kind of agree. The NFL contract are basically that. Players sign these deals knowing that they are never going to see the $20M in the last year of the deal. It's also a product of how weak the NFLPA is and the hard cap. Teams in those other sports live with bad contracts all of the time. The NHL has a hard cap and guaranteed contracts. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts it would really separate the good and bad front offices. Now, if you make a mistake you bite the bullet and release the guy. Contracts like Tannehill's would destroy a team.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) I kind of agree. The NFL contract are basically that. Players sign these deals knowing that they are never going to see the $20M in the last year of the deal. It's also a product of how weak the NFLPA is and the hard cap. Teams in those other sports live with bad contracts all of the time. The NHL has a hard cap and guaranteed contracts. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts it would really separate the good and bad front offices. Now, if you make a mistake you bite the bullet and release the guy. Contracts like Tannehill's would destroy a team. It makes those leagues weaker. The NBA (I know they have a soft cap) is a terrible league. The good teams and players are entertaining, but they are virtually 1/5 of the field. The rest of the league has no chance and everyone knows it. Partly that's due to a lack of talent, and the that one good player out of 5 can have on a team, but still. The other part is bad contracts that have actually ruined careers and eras. You could make the argument that the Amar'e Stoudemire contract ruined what was left of Carmelo Anthony's prime, bringing a East contender to its knees, and basically ruining the East in terms of competition. Lebron is going to the Finals, it's a certainty. No team is good enough, they're either crippled by garbage contracts (Channing Frye, Derrick Rose) or crippled by terrible talent (PHI, NY, every other team in the East?). At least with the NFL, a great defense can sometimes upset a franchise QB. In the NBA, you either have a super star, or you will never ever come close to winning a championship. Edited February 23, 2016 by FireChan
May Day 10 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 This is why I'm happy to see players decide to leave early... and even things like aaron Maybin who put one over.
KD in CA Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Does anyone here even care that we just got $2 million added to our cap? What, and dent the narrative the Bills are in cap hell and have no chance to sign anyone?
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 It makes those leagues weaker. The NBA (I know they have a soft cap) is a terrible league. The good teams and players are entertaining, but they are virtually 1/5 of the field. The rest of the league has no chance and everyone knows it. Partly that's due to a lack of talent, and the that one good player out of 5 can have on a team, but still. The other part is bad contracts that have actually ruined careers and eras. You could make the argument that the Amar'e Stoudemire contract ruined what was left of Carmelo Anthony's prime, bringing a East contender to its knees, and basically ruining the East in terms of competition. Lebron is going to the Finals, it's a certainty. No team is good enough, they're either crippled by garbage contracts (Channing Frye, Derrick Rose) or crippled by terrible talent (PHI, NY, every other team in the East?). At least with the NFL, a great defense can sometimes upset a franchise QB. In the NBA, you either have a super star, or you will never ever come close to winning a championship. Oh, I totally disagree on the NBA. The league is at an all-time high. The franchise values have doubled in the last 5 years and the cap is set to go up $20M next year and another $20M the following year. The league is rolling at the moment. In terms of the bad contracts they should hinder you. If you want to give Amare that deal you have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. You shouldn't be given a reprieve because you made a bad decision. They gave the teams the ability to amnesty a player in the last CBA (assuming they were under contract prior). It allowed you out of a bad deal. You still had to pay them but could free the cap space.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Oh, I totally disagree on the NBA. The league is at an all-time high. The franchise values have doubled in the last 5 years and the cap is set to go up $20M next year and another $20M the following year. The league is rolling at the moment. In terms of the bad contracts they should hinder you. If you want to give Amare that deal you have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. You shouldn't be given a reprieve because you made a bad decision. They gave the teams the ability to amnesty a player in the last CBA (assuming they were under contract prior). It allowed you out of a bad deal. You still had to pay them but could free the cap space. If the NFL was ever going to go the guaranteed route, they would need to include amnesty as well. Without it, you are right, bad $100M contracts for QBs would put teams underwater for 6 years. The more I think about it, I'd actually love a soft cap similar to the NBA in the NFL. A lot of the things the NBA does just seems more fluid and exciting. Exceptions, Bird Rights, MLE. I'd like to see more of that in the NFL. The league is at an all-time high due to the success of League Pass and their willingness to "take over" social media. The NFL and MLB try to shut down folks tweeting videos of big plays or awesome highlights. The NBA encourages it. And the tv deals. But I think the competition is poor in the NBA, and I'll tell you why. There are no true rivalry's. Before this season, who would you have called Lebron's rival? Who would you call Durant's rival? Or Steph Curry's? The only true "we hate them and they hate us" rivalry is the Clippers vs GS and SA. The rest of the league just mosies along. There hasn't been a true championship contender in the East beside the Lebrons since the Big 3 in Boston, who won it 7 years ago. The competition stinks.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 If the NFL was ever going to go the guaranteed route, they would need to include amnesty as well. Without it, you are right, bad $100M contracts for QBs would put teams underwater for 6 years. The more I think about it, I'd actually love a soft cap similar to the NBA in the NFL. A lot of the things the NBA does just seems more fluid and exciting. Exceptions, Bird Rights, MLE. I'd like to see more of that in the NFL. The league is at an all-time high due to the success of League Pass and their willingness to "take over" social media. The NFL and MLB try to shut down folks tweeting videos of big plays or awesome highlights. The NBA encourages it. And the tv deals. But I think the competition is poor in the NBA, and I'll tell you why. There are no true rivalry's. Before this season, who would you have called Lebron's rival? Who would you call Durant's rival? Or Steph Curry's? The only true "we hate them and they hate us" rivalry is the Clippers vs GS and SA. The rest of the league just mosies along. There hasn't been a true championship contender in the East beside the Lebrons since the Big 3 in Boston, who won it 7 years ago. The competition stinks. Agree with all of that and it's an interesting thought. The other thing that the NBA has that no one else does is the massive international appeal. They have managed to get in China and India as well as the rest of the world. The rivalries are a little down but the playoffs will spark that (especially in the west).
Nanker Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Let's see. $50 million over three years. $16,666,66.66 per year - for the entire League. 32 teams in the league is $520,833.31 per team. 65 players on a team on average $8,012.82 per player, or roughly the bar tab for one Shady Champagne party at Recess.
machine gun kelly Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 It's interesting when you do the math, $156,000,000 x 32 teams is $4,992,000,000 if all teams signed to the cap. I know they don't but still a heck of a lot of money for 1,696 players. As far as guaranteed contracts, that would be a killer in the only sport that is this risky in terms of injuries. There are injuries in every sport, but nothing compared to the NFL. Can you imagine as an example, if the $40 million dollar contract for McCoy was guaranteed, and he gets a career ending injury last year in September? Two games cost the Bills $40 mil. The NFL knows it would be suicide.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 It's interesting when you do the math, $156,000,000 x 32 teams is $4,992,000,000 if all teams signed to the cap. I know they don't but still a heck of a lot of money for 1,696 players. As far as guaranteed contracts, that would be a killer in the only sport that is this risky in terms of injuries. There are injuries in every sport, but nothing compared to the NFL. Can you imagine as an example, if the $40 million dollar contract for McCoy was guaranteed, and he gets a career ending injury last year in September? Two games cost the Bills $40 mil. The NFL knows it would be suicide. I think FireChan has some really interesting thoughts on that. If you had buyouts and amnesty provisions it could work. Just as they have the franchise tag it would be cool if you had 1 amnesty per year (for example). You would be given some breathing room for a bad contract but can't do away with a bunch (like New Orleans has tried to do). There would have to be some injury clauses as well but he has some interesting thoughts.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I think FireChan has some really interesting thoughts on that. If you had buyouts and amnesty provisions it could work. Just as they have the franchise tag it would be cool if you had 1 amnesty per year (for example). You would be given some breathing room for a bad contract but can't do away with a bunch (like New Orleans has tried to do). There would have to be some injury clauses as well but he has some interesting thoughts. It would make the game more competitive too. Imagine if the Saints could've halved their dead cap money the last couple of years? Brees would probably be competing for Super Bowls in his twilight years, rather than dragging a garbage team to 6 wins.
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