3rdand12 Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 One of the big myths is that McCoy is critical to our success. He isn't, but then again, most RBs aren't. well that is in question in Greg Romans offense isn't it? But he might be an anomaly. If'n you do not have a franchise QB you sure as hell better be effective running the ball
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 One of the big myths is that McCoy is critical to our success. He isn't, but then again, most RBs aren't. I disagree
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 One of the big myths is that McCoy is critical to our success. He isn't, but then again, most RBs aren't.He is different. He can do things that others can't. It's like saying Woods is fine when Watkins is out. The team is better when Watkins plays. McCoy is one of the best backs in the league. He can make plays that other backs aren't capable of making. Anyone can run when the line play is really good. McCoy makes plays on his own. He's a different talent.
klos63 Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 If we didn't sign A Williams to an extension, or agree to the option on gilmore or resign Dareus or trade for McCoy and kept Fred, didn't add a year to Kyle Williams deal, we'd be in pretty good cap situation, especially after releasing Mario. And everyone would be happy, right? No more cap issues.
FireChan Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 you should see my change jar! darned good post nothing like the brochures except that pesky issue of burning down the city of Philly in a drunken #champagnerage while plooking McNesby's fat wife. Philly is old school and still has the gallows set up for weekend revelry. gotta string up something! he aint no joke. Before the line came together he was making plays. make a guy miss in a phone booth. and i was a detractor i dont get why some return to this so often. are we talking about the draft here. what does the last paragraph have to do with this dialogue ? not trying to be wienerschnitzel here but gee. Maybe the EJ thing has played out finally. yep he killed it, Fred Jackson style a coupla times. Thats when my my attitude turned on the Diva. He plays for real I am not sure if you are playing Devils advocate here. But if you are not, why would you think Leseans efforts were not commendable when taken into context? He has the 4th biggest RB contract, so my expectations are equally high. Placing 12th in an injured season is okay, but I'm not jumping for joy about it. It's similar to Eric Wood. If you're going to get paid like a super star, you better perform like one. I disagree 5-7 with McCoy, 3-1 without him.
3rdand12 Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 He has the 4th biggest RB contract, so my expectations are equally high. Placing 12th in an injured season is okay, but I'm not jumping for joy about it. It's similar to Eric Wood. If you're going to get paid like a super star, you better perform like one. Like Clay, i agree. it is fair to have high expectations of these guys. Neither of them achieved what i expected for differing reasons. Lets see what the second year brings under Roman and both healthy. Clay has knee issues agin i will be pissed. Lesean is a good fit in Buffalo, especially with a decent rotation in karlos and gillislee now. he should be able to shine ( if we can keep the damned line together )
BillsVet Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 The Bills were fast and loose with resources in 2015 and it will hinder them this off-season. I've seen plenty of people talk about whom to release but don't provide an option on replacing them or seem to realize it'll cost them a 2016 resources. Cutting Mario, McKelvin, Graham perhaps to create space has to require finding another player. And once again, for about the 10th year in a row, the Bills enter the draft needing a 1st and 2nd rounder to contribute right away. So, if their roster building strategy is so elite, what can't they build a team which doesn't require rookies to perform out of the box? It's because the front office is still reckless with their limited resources. And that shows up every regular season.
klos63 Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 The Bills were fast and loose with resources in 2015 and it will hinder them this off-season. I've seen plenty of people talk about whom to release but don't provide an option on replacing them or seem to realize it'll cost them a 2016 resources. Cutting Mario, McKelvin, Graham perhaps to create space has to require finding another player. And once again, for about the 10th year in a row, the Bills enter the draft needing a 1st and 2nd rounder to contribute right away. So, if their roster building strategy is so elite, what can't they build a team which doesn't require rookies to perform out of the box? It's because the front office is still reckless with their limited resources. And that shows up every regular season. I would think very few teams have the luxury of not needing their top 2 picks to contribute right away if they expect to be a better team than last year.
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 He has the 4th biggest RB contract, so my expectations are equally high. Placing 12th in an injured season is okay, but I'm not jumping for joy about it. It's similar to Eric Wood. If you're going to get paid like a super star, you better perform like one. 5-7 with McCoy, 3-1 without him. Ahhh so we are going to base it on wins......ok
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) I would think very few teams have the luxury of not needing their top 2 picks to contribute right away if they expect to be a better team than last year.Yeah, teams that need Malcolm Butler to contribute in the playoffs as a rookie never win Super Bowls. He has the 4th biggest RB contract, so my expectations are equally high. Placing 12th in an injured season is okay, but I'm not jumping for joy about it. It's similar to Eric Wood. If you're going to get paid like a super star, you better perform like one. 5-7 with McCoy, 3-1 without him. Who are the 11 backs that you'd rather have instead? Edited February 22, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Yeah, teams that need Malcolm Butler to contribute in the playoffs as a rookie never win Super Bowls. Who are the 11 backs that you'd rather have instead? I don't think that's what I said. Ahhh so we are going to base it on wins......ok What would you like to base success on? Edited February 22, 2016 by FireChan
nucci Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 The Bills were fast and loose with resources in 2015 and it will hinder them this off-season. I've seen plenty of people talk about whom to release but don't provide an option on replacing them or seem to realize it'll cost them a 2016 resources. Cutting Mario, McKelvin, Graham perhaps to create space has to require finding another player. And once again, for about the 10th year in a row, the Bills enter the draft needing a 1st and 2nd rounder to contribute right away. So, if their roster building strategy is so elite, what can't they build a team which doesn't require rookies to perform out of the box? It's because the front office is still reckless with their limited resources. And that shows up every regular season. Don't most teams expect a 1st and 2nd round pick to contribute right away?
QCity Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 He is different. He can do things that others can't. It's like saying Woods is fine when Watkins is out. The team is better when Watkins plays. McCoy is one of the best backs in the league. He can make plays that other backs aren't capable of making. Anyone can run when the line play is really good. McCoy makes plays on his own. He's a different talent. That's simply not true anymore. I've watched Shady his entire career and he's not even close to his former self. He devolved into an east-west runner in 2014 and as he sheds weight to maintain his speed, his odds of playing 16 games are very low (almost zero if he tries to run between the tackles). Your comparison to the Woods/Watkins dynamic is completely off base. Take a look around the league, the position is plug and play. Draft a young RB and give him 2 contracts MAX and replace him before 28. Last year a 5th round pick and a guy off the street smoked Shady in YPA -- it wasn't even close. Giving a RB a $40M contract in 2015 is unconscionable, and it emphasizes how out of touch our GM is with regards to modern NFL trends. They should have drafted a late-round compliment to Karlos Williams (or picked up a cheap FA) and invested a large portion of that money into the right side of the OL. Now you have your assets spread out over 2-3 players and it won't be sitting on the sidelines when your high-mileage RB inevitably gets hurt (and it will happen). As a bonus, our young QB might actually get some more time in the pocket.
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Take a look around the league, the position is plug and play. I thought it had been proven in Dave's thread the other week that this is a wide generalisation that simply isn't true? For some teams the position is plug an play for others it is not. The plug and play teams tend (though not exclusively) to have their Franchise QB established on the roster.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I thought it had been proven in Dave's thread the other week that this is a wide generalisation that simply isn't true? For some teams the position is plug an play for others it is not. The plug and play teams tend (though not exclusively) to have their Franchise QB established on the roster. Yeah- plug and play in New England. But every other playoff team has a guy or two that are pretty good, and that cost draft resources or something.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I don't think that's what I said. What would you like to base success on? No, but you said he has the 4th biggest RB contract and "placed 12th." You either are using be black and white of the rankings in which case he is 4th or 12th or you are kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth. The rankings are fine to use when they fit the narrative but if you don't have 11 backs ahead of him you don't believe that he "he placed 12th." I'm probably not doing a very good job of getting my point across so I apologize. It is tough to communicate what I am getting at. Too often on here we use one set of numbers to make a point but won't support that position. Either he finished 12th in rushing so "there were 11 better because the stats say so" or "the circumstances play a role in why 11 finished ahead of him." He is the 4th highest paid RB and I don't think that there are 4 better backs than him right now. I would say Peterson, Gurley and Bell (coming off of an injury and suspension). Freeman and Martin are pretty good too. McCoy is still right there near the top. He can do things that Frank Gore, Chris Ivory, Deangelo Williams, etc... cannot. Those guys finished with more yards.
PlayoffsPlease Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 So, you are a sage who knows Mario WILL return to form, but Aaron Williams WILL NOT return to form. And ages? Aaron Williams is 25, fercrissake. That is some Jerry Sullivan-esque worth twisted negativity. You also KNOW that McCoy is definitely done. If you match him up with elite RBs from now and from history, he actually fares pretty well in terms of yards and carries, and look at seasons that Lynch and Peterson have had around 30. He was an elite, top 3 back as of last year. Some RBs come back, some don't. As for dime-a-dozen players, Preston Brown has had one excellent season and one disastrous, but it's clearly the bad season which defines him after two years in the NFL. You rail against people for being fans and believing and for being blindly sure, then make your own assumptions as truth. I didn't say Mario will return to form. Whoever replaces him won't even likely be as good as he was in 2015. But in the real world, Aaron Williams is coming back from a paralysis injury that was close to career ending. Anyone with a half a brain realizes that is a dicier situation that coming back from an off year where you were cranky about scheme. He is different. He can do things that others can't. It's like saying Woods is fine when Watkins is out. The team is better when Watkins plays. McCoy is one of the best backs in the league. He can make plays that other backs aren't capable of making. Anyone can run when the line play is really good. McCoy makes plays on his own. He's a different talent. CJ Spiller made some runs that "other backs in the league can't". McCoy is a very high mileage running back who couldn't stay on the field to gain more than 800 odd yards last year. HIs YPC was solid, but not elite. He is a good back, that doesn't make him worth the cap space.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I didn't say Mario will return to form. Whoever replaces him won't even likely be as good as he was in 2015. But in the real world, Aaron Williams is coming back from a paralysis injury that was close to career ending. Anyone with a half a brain realizes that is a dicier situation that coming back from an off year where you were cranky about scheme. CJ Spiller made some runs that "other backs in the league can't". McCoy is a very high mileage running back who couldn't stay on the field to gain more than 800 odd yards last year. HIs YPC was solid, but not elite. He is a good back, that doesn't make him worth the cap space. Except, he was the lead back on the #1 rushing team in the league. He had 7 games in a row (or something like that) of 100+ yards from scrimmage. When healthy he is still a different player. Maybe he will fall off a cliff like Marshawn did but we don't know that yet.
BillsVet Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I would think very few teams have the luxury of not needing their top 2 picks to contribute right away if they expect to be a better team than last year. Buffalo's latest rebuild is now going into their 7th off-season and shows no signs of being over, i.e. making the playoffs. It's amazing that after rebuilding from 2010-2013 in 2014, the Bills needed their top 3 picks (including Kouandjio) to be starters. That trend continued in 2015 when their first and second picks needed to start and they'll again need at least the first rounder to produce out of the box. I don't see a vision to what they're doing. One year it's build through the draft and another it's spending big in UFA. That doesn't happen when teams frequently make good personnel decisions. For the record, the Bills drafted 3rd in 2011, preceded by Carolina, Denver, and followed by Cincinnati and Arizona. Those teams are pretty good while Buffalo languishes in NFL "purgatory" as Doug Whaley bemoans.
BarleyNY Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Except, he was the lead back on the #1 rushing team in the league. He had 7 games in a row (or something like that) of 100+ yards from scrimmage. When healthy he is still a different player. Maybe he will fall off a cliff like Marshawn did but we don't know that yet. The top rushing teams in the league are usually the ones with QBs who run a lot. Those running QBs inflate their team's rushing numbers quite a bit and that's certainly the case with the Bills. So don't put much stock in their team rushing rank.
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