BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 What I mean is that the way you make all this work is you draft at position that would cost you a lot of money to replace by free agents Meaning Yes we just let a 12 million dollar cap hit go with Mario Willaims........so you replace him with a 19th overall pick player and HOPE that you get better production from a younger player who doesnt throw a B word fit cuz his coach asks him to do things that are out of his comfort zone its a strong draft for D linemen......so we should probably take 2 We resign our own home grown quality players......we make decisions on players that wont fit the cap....and draft accordingly. If we draft correctly....the cap should never be a problem. Teams that draft well can always keep the cap reasonably in check. The Bills are not in a great spot from a talent and cap balance right now, so hitting in the draft is of even more importance than usual. While there are certainly some very talented players on the team, the wins just haven't been there to justify such high spending. There's not much to be done except to try to draft well and find deals in free agency. Planned or not, there's really no other reasonable way forward right now. The good news is that this is a great draft for defensive linemen. You're sure right about that.
3rdand12 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Agree...he had a budget before....now his budget is the cap Before, it was Ralph. true enough. But for years he was suspect. Glad i do not feel that way any longer. Now if Whaley could just get us some guards...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I think Overdorf got a bad rap over the years. He was just doing what RW and Littman instructed him to do. Now the handcuffs have been removed. i would certainly like to think so. For those of us who had a problem with Overdorf before, my thinking has turned. He seems to be rather diligent AND intelligent
3rdand12 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I think Overdorf got a bad rap over the years. He was just doing what RW and Littman instructed him to do. Now the handcuffs have been removed. and so was Littman lol. I wonder what Ralph, bless his soul thinks about all this
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 It was interesting that Littman walked as soon as the sale was done. Overdorf isn't perfect... but for a team that now has a roster that is pretty talented he is doing a decent enough job at managing the cap - Charles Clay apart.
John from Riverside Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Teams that draft well can always keep the cap reasonably in check. The Bills are not in a great spot from a talent and cap balance right now, so hitting in the draft is of even more importance than usual. While there are certainly some very talented players on the team, the wins just haven't been there to justify such high spending. There's not much to be done except to try to draft well and find deals in free agency. Planned or not, there's really no other reasonable way forward right now. The good news is that this is a great draft for defensive linemen. You're sure right about that. I am curious as to why you say we are not in a great spot from talent standpoint I think we have a lot of players other teams would love to have.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I think Overdorf got a bad rap over the years. He was just doing what RW and Littman instructed him to do. Now the handcuffs have been removed. 100%.
nucci Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 It was interesting that Littman walked as soon as the sale was done. Overdorf isn't perfect... but for a team that now has a roster that is pretty talented he is doing a decent enough job at managing the cap - Charles Clay apart. Clay was structured so the Dolphins could not match the 1st year salary...the contract was made to be restructured in the 2nd year....Overdorf actually did a great job with that contract
K-9 Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 Clay was structured so the Dolphins could not match the 1st year salary...the contract was made to be restructured in the 2nd year....Overdorf actually did a great job with that contract ^This. He also did a great job of analyzing the cap situation of the Dolphins as well. Every team has a cap guru and Overdorf is one of the best. Ironically, it was his experience of having to manage the cap within the constraints of an operating budget that helped him the most, imo. GO BILLS!!!
BillsVet Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 ^This. He also did a great job of analyzing the cap situation of the Dolphins as well. Every team has a cap guru and Overdorf is one of the best. Ironically, it was his experience of having to manage the cap within the constraints of an operating budget that helped him the most, imo. GO BILLS!!! Jim Overdorf is the same guy who apparently cannot conduct negotiations with more than 1 player. When Lee Evans was up in 2008 it meant Jason Peters had to take a seat while the former received an extension.
BarleyNY Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 I am curious as to why you say we are not in a great spot from talent standpoint I think we have a lot of players other teams would love to have. Every team has players other teams would love to have. But the Bills don't have enough talent overall to warrant their spending. They're spending like a team trying to keep a Super Bowl contender together, but have been average. It's not that they are devoid of talent, they're not. They just don't have the talent level or success to warrant where they are from a cap perspective. They're going to have to dig themselves out.
Thurman#1 Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Clay was structured so the Dolphins could not match the 1st year salary...the contract was made to be restructured in the 2nd year....Overdorf actually did a great job with that contract A good job in giving him a contract the Dolphins can't match. A really bad job in paying him more money than he was worth last year and in taking a huge risk by giving him, essentially, a massive signing bonus that means that we're stuck with him for years even if he doesn't work out due to the massive dead cap cost of letting him go after the re-negotiation. At this point, 64.5% of his contract is guaranteed, which is #1 in the league for TEs not on rookie deals. It's a huge risk, and so far he hasn't paid off like the 6th best TE in the league (his ranking in TEs average salary per year). His contract, McCoy's extension and Harvin's contract last year looked like mistakes to me at the time in terms of money. They're a lot of the reason this team is in cap trouble. Every team has players other teams would love to have. But the Bills don't have enough talent overall to warrant their spending. They're spending like a team trying to keep a Super Bowl contender together, but have been average. It's not that they are devoid of talent, they're not. They just don't have the talent level or success to warrant where they are from a cap perspective. They're going to have to dig themselves out. This, unfortunately. Every team has players other teams would love to have. But the Bills don't have enough talent overall to warrant their spending. They're spending like a team trying to keep a Super Bowl contender together, but have been average. It's not that they are devoid of talent, they're not. They just don't have the talent level or success to warrant where they are from a cap perspective. They're going to have to dig themselves out. Yup. Worst in the league is a stretch. But Whaley himself has admitted we're strapped. We probably wouldn't have cut McKelvin or Urbik if we weren't tight to the cap. Depth is important and we don't look like we'll be able to bring in depth because of cap issues. The people saying "We've cut these guys and freed up some cap room, so there's no problem," are avoiding looking at the problem, which is that the spending has yet to begin. It's like a guy who's in red for half his paycheck at the end of the month getting all psyched when the paycheck actually arrives on the 1st because he's back in the black. The problem for that guy is that the rent is still due, the car and fire insurance, the food bills, the utilities, the beer money and his girlfriend's birthday is coming up this month and you have to forget all that to get psyched that you're looking at a reasonable amount of black ink at the beginning of the pay period. Edited March 6, 2016 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Rodak, tweated that the bills are going to be 60m under the cap next year? is that Right? "Mike Rodak @mikerodak 1h 1 hour ago Mike Rodak Retweeted He's here Right now they’re projected to have around $60M in room. Where they stand will depend on Taylor/Glenn/Gilmore deals." Not a big deal. That's 9th worst in the league. The 3rd worst team has around $50 mill right now free in 2017. This is just what things look like this early. Every team will sign a bunch of extra contracts over the next few months and 2017 cap space will nosedive. We'll get a better idea of how things really look around the beginning of the 2016 season. By then you know most of the signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts we've given that will affect next year's cap. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/ Edited March 6, 2016 by Thurman#1
Virgil Posted March 6, 2016 Author Posted March 6, 2016 Every team has players other teams would love to have. But the Bills don't have enough talent overall to warrant their spending. They're spending like a team trying to keep a Super Bowl contender together, but have been average. It's not that they are devoid of talent, they're not. They just don't have the talent level or success to warrant where they are from a cap perspective. They're going to have to dig themselves out. This x10
26CornerBlitz Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 Every team has players other teams would love to have. But the Bills don't have enough talent overall to warrant their spending. They're spending like a team trying to keep a Super Bowl contender together, but have been average. It's not that they are devoid of talent, they're not. They just don't have the talent level or success to warrant where they are from a cap perspective. They're going to have to dig themselves out. I disagree. What the Bills lack is an established QB with a huge cap number. If you look elsewhere on the roster, they have quite a bit of talent that rivals the better teams in the NFL.
BarleyNY Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 I disagree. What the Bills lack is an established QB with a huge cap number. If you look elsewhere on the roster, they have quite a bit of talent that rivals the better teams in the NFL. A franchise QB is a big factor in a team's talent. Their recent records indicate that they've been average with an average amount of OVERALL talent compared to other teams. If they had an elite QB with a huge cap number, then they'd have less talent elsewhere because they couldn't afford some of the other expensive players. If their spending was in line with their record, then they'd have cap room to afford a franchise QB in addition to the current roster.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 A franchise QB is a big factor in a team's talent. Their recent records indicate that they've been average with an average amount of OVERALL talent compared to other teams. If they had an elite QB with a huge cap number, then they'd have less talent elsewhere because they couldn't afford some of the other expensive players. If their spending was in line with their record, then they'd have cap room to afford a franchise QB in addition to the current roster. That has nothing to do with the talent on the rest of the roster and that is the point I am making. If Tyrod continues to improve enough to warrant a big contract, I have no doubt that they will be able to afford it. When I look at the Bills overall roster, they have plenty of talent. Maybe you disagree and if so, that's just fine.
dayman Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 That has nothing to do with the talent on the rest of the roster and that is the point I am making. If Tyrod continues to improve enough to warrant a big contract, I have no doubt that they will be able to afford it. When I look at the Bills overall roster, they have plenty of talent. Maybe you disagree and if so, that's just fine. His point is that it has everything to do with talent on the rest of the roster b/c we wouldn't be able to go as hard at the rest of the roster if we carried a big QB contract. We've paid over value at a lot of positions and it's fine b/c we can...if we had Brees it would be different.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 His point is that it has everything to do with talent on the rest of the roster b/c we wouldn't be able to go as hard at the rest of the roster if we carried a big QB contract. We've paid over value at a lot of positions and it's fine b/c we can...if we had Brees it would be different. Like who?
3rdand12 Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Like who? this is where i get confused. who is this unattainable person or persons? we had the most expensive Dline in the league. but that is not needed really. so this year we put money into the O line and some folks don't like that either. Bills have money for TT and Gilmore next year. what is it Bills are lacking that they just cannot have? all teams must focus somewhere. and BTW how are Drew Brees Saints doing lately? How about the Giants and Eli. Edited March 6, 2016 by 3rdand12
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