BillsVet Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 And we still can't win. But this time we're doing it near the cap ceiling and not the cap floor! And I don't think it's all Whaley's fault, but he gets his share of the blame for being GM. As jahnyc said, Rex was pushing for players and he's not the one I want calling the shots. Whaley was interested in placating the new HC and demonstrating he was a team player. The problem was this resulted in a cap situation looking pretty rough down the road. Of course, when you're worried about winning in 2015 to ostensibly save your job, future seasons don't matter.
Mij yllek Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25497873/undeterred-by-their-cap-issues-the-bills-plan-is-to-keep-spending
YoloinOhio Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25497873/undeterred-by-their-cap-issues-the-bills-plan-is-to-keep-spending interesting. Thanks for posting. If we believe lacanfora, Boobie is gone, Kyle is staying, TT won't be extended yet,and they are going to play games with the cap to get the roster they want. The bilal Powell stuff has to be a guess based on last year, unless McCoy gets a lengthy suspension.
jahnyc Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 I don't buy the argument that we should not worry about the cap because we always be able to create cap flexibility. We are fortunate to have owners that are willing to spend, but it feels like we are trying to prop up a slightly above average team. Sometimes there is not much of a choice to overspend (i.e., Glenn) to keep a player, particularly when there is no replacement on the roster (combined in our case with the uncertainty at right tackle), but there is no doubt we are creating some long term issues since other teams will be able to out spend us for players and the cap will not go up enough each year to give us the room that we will need. We are spending as if we are on the cusp of making the Superbowl. I do not see it. Rather, I see a team that potentially can improve from its record last year, but still will not be competitive with the top teams in the NFL and will face a more difficult schedule than last year.
BarleyNY Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) I don't buy the argument that we should not worry about the cap because we always be able to create cap flexibility. We are fortunate to have owners that are willing to spend, but it feels like we are trying to prop up a slightly above average team. Sometimes there is not much of a choice to overspend (i.e., Glenn) to keep a player, particularly when there is no replacement on the roster (combined in our case with the uncertainty at right tackle), but there is no doubt we are creating some long term issues since other teams will be able to out spend us for players and the cap will not go up enough each year to give us the room that we will need. We are spending as if we are on the cusp of making the Superbowl. I do not see it. Rather, I see a team that potentially can improve from its record last year, but still will not be competitive with the top teams in the NFL and will face a more difficult schedule than last year. Agreed. Last offseason that was pretty much what I said. Spending as they did would really only have make sense for something like a championship run. The spending is already starting to create issues. If some corrective control isn't exercised then it'll get worse, not better. Edited February 28, 2016 by BarleyNY
Deranged Rhino Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 I don't buy the argument that we should not worry about the cap because we always be able to create cap flexibility. We are fortunate to have owners that are willing to spend, but it feels like we are trying to prop up a slightly above average team. Sometimes there is not much of a choice to overspend (i.e., Glenn) to keep a player, particularly when there is no replacement on the roster (combined in our case with the uncertainty at right tackle), but there is no doubt we are creating some long term issues since other teams will be able to out spend us for players and the cap will not go up enough each year to give us the room that we will need. We are spending as if we are on the cusp of making the Superbowl. I do not see it. Rather, I see a team that potentially can improve from its record last year, but still will not be competitive with the top teams in the NFL and will face a more difficult schedule than last year. I don't think the argument is that the team doesn't have to worry about the cap, more so the fans. The cap is fluid (as others have pointed out, it's continuing to go up each year), every NFL team employs cap guys whose jobs focus on creating contracts with the team's future cap situation in mind, but teams still have to be mindful. Your point about OBD trying to prop up a slightly above average team is interesting but I'm not sure I agree. Someone earlier (Bandit or Nucci maybe? I forget who and apologize in advance for butchering it in the following) pointed out that most teams have 7 or 8 players at their core and build around that. Whaley's plan seems to be building around a core of Watkins, Dareus, McCoy, Hughes, Gilmore, Glenn, Clay, (and possibly) Taylor. That's not a terrible core to build around, especially if Taylor takes a step forward this season. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of stopping them from locking the rest of the guys in that group up either. I also wouldn't call what the Bills are doing this off season as a spending spree -- that happened last year. This year it's about retaining their own, which it seems like they're going to be able to do with some room to spare.
John from Riverside Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 interesting. Thanks for posting. If we believe lacanfora, Boobie is gone, Kyle is staying, TT won't be extended yet,and they are going to play games with the cap to get the roster they want. The bilal Powell stuff has to be a guess based on last year, unless McCoy gets a lengthy suspension. I honestly think Kyle Williams is in real jeapordy if we go DL in this defensive rich draft That 8 million dollar cap hit for a aging player is a LOT
TheBillsBlues Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Yes the Bills are in dire straights with the cap but here are the three most important things they need to do to get their cap situation under control and to have the best possible offseason that they can. http://buffalowdown.com/2016/02/27/three-buffalo-bills-offseason-priorities/ Edited February 28, 2016 by TheBillsBlues
nucci Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Yes the Bills are in dire straight with the cap but here are the three most important things they need to do to get their cap situation under control and to have the best possible offseason that they can. http://buffalowdown.com/2016/02/27/three-buffalo-bills-offseason-priorities/ No, they are not. They have already created space and will make moves to get more. They will be able to make offers to whomever they choose.
BarleyNY Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) I honestly think Kyle Williams is in real jeapordy if we go DL in this defensive rich draft That 8 million dollar cap hit for a aging player is a LOT Kyle's roster bonus of $500k is due by 3/13 so the Bills would want to make a decision on him before then. They can't really wait to see whom they draft first. Kyle is probably creating the most interesting situation this off-season as far as I am concerned. What happens with him hinges on so many different things. Fit in defense, health, contract ($6.5M savings if released before 3/13). Think about this: Kyle's release would likely be in addition to Mario's and Bradham is unlikely to return. That would be a loss of three of the front seven players. That's huge turnover especially when you consider that at least two (and probably all three) of them were marquee players. Edited February 28, 2016 by BarleyNY
TheBillsBlues Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 No, they are not. They have already created space and will make moves to get more. They will be able to make offers to whomever they choose. I may have been being a bit dramatic when I said they were in dire straights but they still have limited cap space even after restructuring Clay. They cannot afford anyone they want but they will be able to target a couple of players after they resign their own.
nucci Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 I may have been being a bit dramatic when I said they were in dire straights but they still have limited cap space even after restructuring Clay. They cannot afford anyone they want but they will be able to target a couple of players after they resign their own. Which is all they need to do. Also, very few top players make it to free agency so having $40-50M in cap space isn't always great. This team has enough talent to win and will re-sign their best players....it's the coaching I'm more concerned with. Remember, we now have Rob Ryan on the staff
TheBillsBlues Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Which is all they need to do. Also, very few top players make it to free agency so having $40-50M in cap space isn't always great. This team has enough talent to win and will re-sign their best players....it's the coaching I'm more concerned with. Remember, we now have Rob Ryan on the staff I am not unhappy with them not having cap space. I don't think free agents are the best way to build a team. The draft is the best place for that so I like the fact they don't have too many holes and can try to fill them mostly in the draft. Should be interesting with Rob and Rex this season. Edited February 28, 2016 by TheBillsBlues
nucci Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 I am not unhappy that with them not having cap space. I don't think free agents are the best way to build a team. The draft is the best place for that so I like the fact they don't have too many holes and can try to fill them mostly in the draft. Should be interesting with Rob and Rex this season. Interesting is a good description.
3rdand12 Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 I am not unhappy with them not having cap space. I don't think free agents are the best way to build a team. The draft is the best place for that so I like the fact they don't have too many holes and can try to fill them mostly in the draft. Should be interesting with Rob and Rex this season. As long s they can sign the players they drafted and have done well for them I think Bills are managing well. Next couple years Bills need to continue to draft ell and bring up their own , so to speak. Ryan brothers? No question it will be interesting. I expect it to be quite a bit of fun honestly. Has this ever happened in sports? Twins coaching on the same team. and both outgoing characters at that? I think it's freakin awesome if only for the uniqueness of the event. Bills sure as heck keep it interesting, that is a fair statement. Classic Laugh In material!! well done Ruth Buzzi beating Arte over the head with her purse as he played the dirty old man would have worked too.
simpleman Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Kyle's roster bonus of $500k is due by 3/13 so the Bills would want to make a decision on him before then. They can't really wait to see whom they draft first. Kyle is probably creating the most interesting situation this off-season as far as I am concerned. What happens with him hinges on so many different things. Fit in defense, health, contract ($6.5M savings if released before 3/13). Think about this: Kyle's release would likely be in addition to Mario's and Bradham is unlikely to return. That would be a loss of three of the front seven players. That's huge turnover especially when you consider that at least two (and probably all three) of them were marquee players. I never thought of Bradham as a marquee player. In fact Walter rates him as the number 17th FA OLB.
What a Tuel Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Not sure if this has been posted. I agree with the conclusion of the article that criticism of our cap management is often coming down from a cursory glance that we are the same old bills despite trying to improve through expensive additions, and a total cap number that isn't representative of the whole picture, especially the post 2016 future http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-analysis-all-22/2016/2/27/11120330/buffalo-bills-2016-salary-cap-criticism-joe-banner-anonymous-nfc-gm?utm_campaign=buffalorumblings&utm_content=article%2525253Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook Edited February 29, 2016 by What a Tuel
BarleyNY Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 Not sure if this has been posted. I agree with the conclusion of the article that criticism of our cap management is often coming down from a cursory glance that we are the same old bills despite trying to improve through expensive additions, and a total cap number that isn't representative of the whole picture, especially the post 2016 future http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-analysis-all-22/2016/2/27/11120330/buffalo-bills-2016-salary-cap-criticism-joe-banner-anonymous-nfc-gm?utm_campaign=buffalorumblings&utm_content=article%25253Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook I have to disagree with buffalorumblings' reasoning and conclusion. The Bills' situation is definitely worse than they would lead people to believe. It is, however, not quite as bad as many have portrayed it. It sure was not the worst in the league. The Saints' situation was horrific and they've been hemmoraging talent to get healthy cap-wise. The Bills' situation is manageable, but there'll be sacrifices needed to get the cap in order. The article basically quoted a few people who made over-the-top comments and said "don't worry, it's not that bad." True, it's not crazy bad, but it's not don't-worry-about-it good either. Cap health and proper use of cap space is much, much more about value (wins) for cap space used (money spent) and the ability to retain and add talent. The Bills spent big and have gotten mediocrity for it. That's poor value. They're also very unlikely to see a net gain in talent on their roster this offseason due to cuts of players like Mario and the difficulty they'll have even keeping their own free agents, much less adding talent that way. The article's writer seemed to think that just because the Bills CAN get under the cap, then everything is okay. That's not the litmus test, how bad it hurts a team to get under the cap is.
dayman Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 I have to disagree with buffalorumblings' reasoning and conclusion. The Bills' situation is definitely worse than they would lead people to believe. It is, however, not quite as bad as many have portrayed it. It sure was not the worst in the league. The Saints' situation was horrific and they've been hemmoraging talent to get healthy cap-wise. The Bills' situation is manageable, but there'll be sacrifices needed to get the cap in order. The article basically quoted a few people who made over-the-top comments and said "don't worry, it's not that bad." True, it's not crazy bad, but it's not don't-worry-about-it good either. Cap health and proper use of cap space is much, much more about value (wins) for cap space used (money spent) and the ability to retain and add talent. The Bills spent big and have gotten mediocrity for it. That's poor value. They're also very unlikely to see a net gain in talent on their roster this offseason due to cuts of players like Mario and the difficulty they'll have even keeping their own free agents, much less adding talent that way. The article's writer seemed to think that just because the Bills CAN get under the cap, then everything is okay. That's not the litmus test, how bad it hurts a team to get under the cap is. If you don't have a franchise QB you damn well better be aggressive with the cap. I'm surprised so many Bills fans are so willing to look differently at moves they once liked and moves that did help us (even if we didn't make the playoffs).
Recommended Posts