Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 This is probably a deal breaker for the Bills. He said he wants to win, not actually win-- so I think he would be okay here.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Yep...gotta love and respect the guy for his contributions. At the same time, this organization needs to think progressively; get with the thought process that it's better to part ways with an aging vet one year too soon than one year too late. The argument FOR keeping Rex and his underperforming defense is that it has been time tested to be a better system than the one that Schwartz ran so well in his one year in Buffalo. That being the case, and with $ needs elsewhere, it's time to move on from Kyle Williams. IMO he is a better player than "Snax" or even Ngata at this point but a bad fit for Rex pass-rusher unfriendly front and Kyle is also too old to provide much long term help in the event that Rex is fired and a more pass rusher friendly system is put in place by new coaching in 2017.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) He is probably going to cost more then we want to pay a Nose..... There will be other legit NT's that will be cheaper in free agency better than paying $95 mil for a NT. Anyhow it is a must to get one of these to move Dareus back to 3 The argument FOR keeping Rex and his underperforming defense is that it has been time tested to be a better system than the one that Schwartz ran so well in his one year in Buffalo. That being the case, and with $ needs elsewhere, it's time to move on from Kyle Williams. IMO he is a better player than "Snax" or even Ngata at this point but a bad fit for Rex pass-rusher unfriendly front and Kyle is also too old to provide much long term help in the event that Rex is fired and a more pass rusher friendly system is put in place by new coaching in 2017. I could see restructung him and playing a front with Dareus, NT to be named, Kyle, plus get another OLB that can pass rush and cover a la jerry and test Lawson at ILB a little more. He looked interesting there in the last game. Edited February 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood
BADOLBILZ Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 better than paying $95 mil for a NT. Anyhow it is a must to get one of these to move Dareus back to 3 I could see restructung him and playing a front with Dareus, NT to be named, Kyle, plus get another OLB that can pass rush and cover a la jerry and test Lawson at ILB a little more. He looked interesting there in the last game. Really need length and power at the DE positions in Rex D. The explanations of Rex D can get complicated with all the talk about the various techniques but at it's core Rex D is a two-gap front. The DL are expected to square up their blocker and be able to release and tackle ball carriers to their right or left. That kills pass rushers like Kyle Williams, who are all about choosing 1 gap and attacking it. I know the Bills said the right things about his play in Rex D this year but he wasn't good and with Rex promising to be truer to his system this season he is a total misfit on first and second down. I don't mind the idea of Lawson inside just not sure he is stout enough.
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 Write-up on Harrison and other potential FA DL fits http://www.wgr550.com/pages/22480704.php?contentType=4&contentId=18451868
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Really need length and power at the DE positions in Rex D. The explanations of Rex D can get complicated with all the talk about the various techniques but at it's core Rex D is a two-gap front. The DL are expected to square up their blocker and be able to release and tackle ball carriers to their right or left. That kills pass rushers like Kyle Williams, who are all about choosing 1 gap and attacking it. I know the Bills said the right things about his play in Rex D this year but he wasn't good and with Rex promising to be truer to his system this season he is a total misfit on first and second down. I don't mind the idea of Lawson inside just not sure he is stout enough. Interesting... I'm trying to think back to some of the better fronts In this or similar scheme, other than Taylor as a late career free agent, I'm not reminded of any prototypical long DEs in this scheme. (Blaming memory here, not that there were not some of these guys) Ravens when running a similar scheme had dwan Edwards at one end, a big NT (maybe Cody?) and Ngata at other end. Suggs played Hughes role and they had of course a very good and a great ILB... Agree on stoutness of Lawson,but once you load up on space eaters, at least one of your ILBs can be lighter as long as they can run hash to hash and cover. Thought never even dawned on me either until I saw him play there vs jets wk 17. And it just worked. Edited February 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Interesting... I'm trying to think back to some of the better fronts In this or similar scheme, other than Taylor as a late career free agent, I'm not reminded of any prototypical long DEs in this scheme. (Blaming memory here, not that there were not some of these guys) Ravens when running a similar scheme had dwan Edwards at one end, a big NT (maybe Cody?) and Ngata at other end. Suggs played Hughes role and they had of course a very good and a great ILB... Agree on stoutness of Lawson,but once you load up on space eaters, at least one of your ILBs can be lighter as long as they can run hash to hash and cover. Thought never even dawned on me either until I saw him play there vs jets wk 17. And it just worked. I believe Kelly Gregg was NT. A Kyle Williams type body.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I believe Kelly Gregg was NT. A Kyle Williams type body. They were similar in height and weight, but Gregg had longer arms (32-1/2"). Kyle has exceptionally short arms--30". He's been able to overcome it because of great hand placement and quickness off the ball...it's tougher to hide in a 2-gapping system though.
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 They were similar in height and weight, but Gregg had longer arms (32-1/2"). Kyle has exceptionally short arms--30". He's been able to overcome it because of great hand placement and quickness off the ball...it's tougher to hide in a 2-gapping system though. Plus it takes away from what Kyle is really good at....... I dont think Kyle is NEARLY as effective when he is told to just hold gap control and not go after the QB.....
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 They were similar in height and weight, but Gregg had longer arms (32-1/2"). Kyle has exceptionally short arms--30". He's been able to overcome it because of great hand placement and quickness off the ball...it's tougher to hide in a 2-gapping system though. Oh I know. Just saying that Rex had an undersized NT.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Plus it takes away from what Kyle is really good at....... I dont think Kyle is NEARLY as effective when he is told to just hold gap control and not go after the QB..... Absolutely. Oh I know. Just saying that Rex had an undersized NT. Ah yes...indeed he did. Dallas did the same for a long time with Jay Ratliff and then Jason Hatcher after him. It can work, but like you say, it takes a certain type.
Manther Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I'll put it this way: 3-4 million is less than what Sammy cost his first year. Also, the way that veteran contracts are done typically have steadily increasing value. For example, Lawson's contract was $4M/year, but his cap hit season 1 waa $2.4. Also, Carpenter (master of missed PAT) and Urbik, our backup RG, each are coming in with cap savings of $1.75M. Considering all of the other holes (LB, RT, WR, S maybe) if we can plug in a decent vet to solidify the Dline, I'm for it. We can fill in backup G and K with third day picks or waver wire pickups. Some valid points. However, remember cutting the kicker and back up centre need to be replaced. At those replacements count against the cap.
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I honestly would not understand cutting Urbik The guy fills in just fine as a starter....he can play both OG and C postitions.....and frankly he just doesnt cost that much. Unless we are replacing him with a draft pick (unless some unbelievable talent falls into later rounds I just dont get it) There are guys like Leodis who are NOT worth what they are getting paid.....I would look there first
Manther Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Yep...gotta love and respect the guy for his contributions. At the same time, this organization needs to think progressively; get with the thought process that it's better to part ways with an aging vet one year too soon than one year too late. Yep and yep The argument FOR keeping Rex and his underperforming defense is that it has been time tested to be a better system than the one that Schwartz ran so well in his one year in Buffalo. That being the case, and with $ needs elsewhere, it's time to move on from Kyle Williams. IMO he is a better player than "Snax" or even Ngata at this point but a bad fit for Rex pass-rusher unfriendly front and Kyle is also too old to provide much long term help in the event that Rex is fired and a more pass rusher friendly system is put in place by new coaching in 2017. I agree with you on the 2nd and 3rd paragraph. But, was there ANY need for the first? It has no relevance to the thread or anything it? I honestly would not understand cutting Urbik The guy fills in just fine as a starter....he can play both OG and C postitions.....and frankly he just doesnt cost that much. Unless we are replacing him with a draft pick (unless some unbelievable talent falls into later rounds I just dont get it) There are guys like Leodis who are NOT worth what they are getting paid.....I would look there first I totally agree. There really isn't a benefit to cutting Urbik. Just downside. By the time you replace the back up centre and pay him...maybe you save $500 K tops! You know Urbik can play centre and guard. IMO anyone who says cut him doesn't realize that $1.75 M is not a net savings and probably also a down grade at the position. It's like saying if we only had 47 players on our 53 we can save cap space!?
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I totally agree. There really isn't a benefit to cutting Urbik. Just downside. By the time you replace the back up centre and pay him...maybe you save $500 K tops! You know Urbik can play centre and guard. IMO anyone who says cut him doesn't realize that $1.75 M is not a net savings and probably also a down grade at the position. It's like saying if we only had 47 players on our 53 we can save cap space!? It becomes sensible to me only if you draft a center with an eye toward saving a bunch of cap money by releasing Wood next year, and using that money to help with Tyrod/Gilmore/Glenn. One good draft pick essentially makes two veterans expendable, one now and one next year, and you'd just need a cheap backup at that point. They'd also have to be fully comfortable with Miller at RG this year. Edited February 17, 2016 by Aaron
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 It becomes sensible to me only if you draft a center with an eye toward saving a bunch of cap money by releasing Wood next year, and using that money to help with Tyrod/Gilmore/Glenn. One good draft pick essentially makes two veterans expendable, one now and one next year, and you'd just need a cheap backup at that point. They'd also have to be fully comfortable with Miller at RG this year. Why would we release Wood when he is actually playing at a respectable level now? - Cog and Wood are good friends.....Wood is probably recruiting him as hard as the GM - They work good together - Wood is not that old People want to release players in hope that some crapshoot rook is going to be a better player.....that is a long leap to that next branch Aaron.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Why would we release Wood when he is actually playing at a respectable level now? - Cog and Wood are good friends.....Wood is probably recruiting him as hard as the GM - They work good together - Wood is not that old People want to release players in hope that some crapshoot rook is going to be a better player.....that is a long leap to that next branch Aaron. IMO a wise GM would view Wood as a year-to-year proposition. That's great he 'actually' (appropriate word) had a good year and stayed healthy this season, but will that be the case for the next 4 years? Who the heck knows? He also makes over 6 million on a team that needs to sign Tyrod/Gilmore/Glenn, plays in a power run scheme despite not being a drive blocker, and has only 2 yrs on his deal. And I said draft a center now with an eye toward cutting Wood next year. That is not cutting him for a crapshoot rookie, its cutting him for a player you've evaluated and developed in Roman's system for a full season. Everything you say is true, I disagree with absolutely none of it. Everything I've said is also true.
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 IMO a wise GM would view Wood as a year-to-year proposition. That's great he 'actually' (appropriate word) had a good year and stayed healthy this season, but will that be the case for the next 4 years? Who the heck knows? He also makes over 6 million on a team that needs to sign Tyrod/Gilmore/Glenn, plays in a power run scheme despite not being a drive blocker, and has only 2 yrs on his deal. And I said draft a center now with an eye toward cutting Wood next year. That is not cutting him for a crapshoot rookie, its cutting him for a player you've evaluated and developed in Roman's system for a full season. Everything you say is true, I disagree with absolutely none of it. Everything I've said is also true. Ok just think about this for a minute Cog is gonna be happy that a year later his buddy (who is playing well) is cut from the team right after signing a new contract? There is such a thing as continuity with O linemen. I get the drafting for future even when you have starters at present......the problem is we only have so many picks.
FireChan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Ok just think about this for a minute Cog is gonna be happy that a year later his buddy (who is playing well) is cut from the team right after signing a new contract? There is such a thing as continuity with O linemen. I get the drafting for future even when you have starters at present......the problem is we only have so many picks. It's a business John. You don't keep players because they are friends. I bet Ron Brooks had some buddies.
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