FireChan Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 You would know. Huh? I'm not a free agent. Your right.....we will get some guys here simply because they like Rex Ryan Players coach remember? That's true. Some guys love him.
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 it wouldn't be at the expense of either of the Olinemen, but could be at the expense of Kyle Williams. Or Corbin Bryant. 3-4 mill is not a lot, regardless. or Nigel bradham, or restructure Leo and let Boobie go. I agree...which is why I dont see the bills coming up with big money for a Nose We just dont have it.....I dont think we are as in dire straights as some like to think on here..... but Moves will have to be made to sign Glenn, Cog, our draft picks, and some b list free agents (which is what we REALLY should be looking at) I am just not a fan of Corbin Bryant......he doenst come up big when we need him to and to me frankly is very replacable If that is all it took to land a good nose tackle.....sign me up Is Carrington a FA again?
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2016 Author Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) It's not a lot, which is true. But, what's missing from the argument is their current cap situation. Right now, they are basically cap neutral. They essentially have NO cap space to play with. That's of course including Mario on the roster, but cutting him gets them only $12m. All I'm saying is that this "wish list" player isn't likely IMO. The Bills aren't going to simply start selling off their roster to make space. Corbin Bryant isn't under contract right now. So he saves nothing by NOT signing him. He's a free agent. Kyle would save you $5m by letting him go, but then you still have to replace him with someone else. If the Bills weren't in the worst cap situation of any team in the NFL right now (which they are), I could easily see paying for Harrison. Makes sense. Right now, it just doesn't. i don't personally want to cut Kyle but if they did, his replacement on the line is Harrison. There is enough salary cap discussion in other threads so I won't get into that here, but they are likely going to add a NT in either FA or the draft and Kyle isn't a great fit for this scheme. Edited February 16, 2016 by YoloinOhio
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 It's not a lot, which is true. But, what's missing from the argument is their current cap situation. Right now, they are basically cap neutral. They essentially have NO cap space to play with. That's of course including Mario on the roster, but cutting him gets them only $12m. All I'm saying is that this "wish list" player isn't likely IMO. The Bills aren't going to simply start selling off their roster to make space. Corbin Bryant isn't under contract right now. So he saves nothing by NOT signing him. He's a free agent. Kyle would save you $5m by letting him go, but then you still have to replace him with someone else. If the Bills weren't in the worst cap situation of any team in the NFL right now (which they are), I could easily see paying for Harrison. Makes sense. Right now, it just doesn't. you may have forgotten the potential increase of the cap to about 153?
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 i don't personally want to cut Kyle but if they did, his replacement on the line is Harrison. There is enough salary cap discussion in other threads so I won't get into that here, but they are likely going to add a NT in either FA or the draft and Kyle isn't a great fit for this scheme. I am not sure about that Kyle going if a Nose is brought in NT's dont play every snap.......so on pass rush downs lining up Williams on the line would be ideal. Wish we could get him to take a pay cut
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 They're saying $3-4 million a year is what a guy like him would cost. I don't see the Bills throwing more money at the defensive line when clearly they have to address the offensive line first. Glenn and Incognito are the priority right now. I'll put it this way: 3-4 million is less than what Sammy cost his first year. Also, the way that veteran contracts are done typically have steadily increasing value. For example, Lawson's contract was $4M/year, but his cap hit season 1 waa $2.4. Also, Carpenter (master of missed PAT) and Urbik, our backup RG, each are coming in with cap savings of $1.75M. Considering all of the other holes (LB, RT, WR, S maybe) if we can plug in a decent vet to solidify the Dline, I'm for it. We can fill in backup G and K with third day picks or waver wire pickups.
thebandit27 Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 Such as? Not sure what the going rate will be for each, but off the top of my head, here's a list of guys that can play the 0-tech that will be FAs: Damon Harrison Haloti Ngata Brandon Mebane Ian Williams Steve McLendon Terrence Knighton BJ Raji It's not a lot, which is true. But, what's missing from the argument is their current cap situation. Right now, they are basically cap neutral. They essentially have NO cap space to play with. That's of course including Mario on the roster, but cutting him gets them only $12m. All I'm saying is that this "wish list" player isn't likely IMO. The Bills aren't going to simply start selling off their roster to make space. Corbin Bryant isn't under contract right now. So he saves nothing by NOT signing him. He's a free agent. Kyle would save you $5m by letting him go, but then you still have to replace him with someone else. If the Bills weren't in the worst cap situation of any team in the NFL right now (which they are), I could easily see paying for Harrison. Makes sense. Right now, it just doesn't. I just don't see how the cap situation is so bad when their top 51 aren't even over the projected 2016 cap ($155M at last reporting) once all the 2015 carryover is rolled up? And yes, I would be in favor of letting Kyle Williams go (maybe even a trade for a day 3 pick) if it meant getting younger and bigger on the interior.
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2016 Author Posted February 16, 2016 I am not sure about that Kyle going if a Nose is brought in NT's dont play every snap.......so on pass rush downs lining up Williams on the line would be ideal. Wish we could get him to take a pay cut i feel bad even saying this as I don't want to cut Kyle (personally) but they could rotate in Jarius Wynn or Carrington, or draft a DL who is versatile inside and outside.
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 i feel bad even saying this as I don't want to cut Kyle (personally) but they could rotate in Jarius Wynn or Carrington, or draft a DL who is versatile inside and outside. I know me to I get a feeling that Kyle Williams is going to be asked to take a pay cut (not a restructure) and if he says yes he stays if not they release him and bring in a guy Wynn (who was very good for us) or Carrington (who at least matched Mario's production) Tough decisions coming I think.....
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 It's not a lot, which is true. But, what's missing from the argument is their current cap situation. Right now, they are basically cap neutral. They essentially have NO cap space to play with. That's of course including Mario on the roster, but cutting him gets them only $12m. All I'm saying is that this "wish list" player isn't likely IMO. The Bills aren't going to simply start selling off their roster to make space. Corbin Bryant isn't under contract right now. So he saves nothing by NOT signing him. He's a free agent. Kyle would save you $5m by letting him go, but then you still have to replace him with someone else. If the Bills weren't in the worst cap situation of any team in the NFL right now (which they are), I could easily see paying for Harrison. Makes sense. Right now, it just doesn't. I'm surprised the Bills haven't done anything yet when it comes to cap flexibility paycuts, restructuring or cuts. I think there some tough decisions to make but with our cap being so tight players coming off injury like Kyle and Aaron should be easy targets for paycuts or flat out release. We can't wait around to see if Kyle is still explosive or if Aaron can play at all considering there cap #'s. Here's my list of paycut players. These players will either get cut or take pay cuts. Mario Mckelvin Lawson Felton Carp Graham Dixon Urbik Restructure/Extension Candidates Clay Gilmore Wood. With these cap savings the Bills can add players that fit our systems better and we can also get younger at the same time. Kyle I believe has seen his best days and will be more of a situational player moving forward I'd rather have a dominating NT like Harrison for less money plus this move frees up Dareus to move all over the line and to play a more natural 5Tech spot in the 3/4 D. The Bills also need 2 new starting Safeties, I'm talking bout real safeties not corners playing that role. Graham was horrible last yr taking bad angles and missing tackles. We we're getting killed on rub/pick plays because of bad safety play. Which lead to horrible sack numbers because teams got rid of the ball faster.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Cut Mario Williams and Kyle Williams. Sign Quentin Coples, Damon Harrison, and Haloti Ngata. Harrison - 4 years $25 million Coples - 2 years $7 million Ngata - 3 years $15 million
thurst44 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Cut Mario Williams and Kyle Williams. Sign Quentin Coples, Damon Harrison, and Haloti Ngata. Harrison - 4 years $25 million Coples - 2 years $7 million Ngata - 3 years $15 million It's not a coincidence that the running defense suddenly disappeared when Kyle got hurt. I highly doubt Kyle Williams is going anywhere, certainly not to make room for Quentin Coples. He loves it in Buffalo, and would probably renegotiate his contract, and there are many other places for them to find space (McKelvin, Boobie, Clay restructure, Urbik, Easley). Let's not hope the Bills make the same mistake they made when they released Pat Williams at roughly the same age.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Cut Mario Williams and Kyle Williams. Sign Quentin Coples, Damon Harrison, and Haloti Ngata. Harrison - 4 years $25 million Coples - 2 years $7 million Ngata - 3 years $15 million I wouldn't touch Coples I'd be fine with one of Harrison or Ngata; no need for both when you have Bryant and Charles to play the 5T/4i I think Harrison is going to want $5M-$6M per, so I'd go after Ngata. He's older and more likely to take a middling deal to come here. He's also a hit more versatile, having played all along the interior, whereas Harrison is almost exclusively a 0-tech. Either way, I agree that Mario and Kyle being shown the door is probably the best thing long-term.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I'd love to have Kyle as a nickel pass rush specialist replacing the NT, but only on a pay cut. Even then I'm not sure it makes sense. What a great Bill, though. Edited February 17, 2016 by Aaron
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I'd love to have Kyle as a nickel pass rush specialist replacing the NT, but only on a pay cut. Even then I'm not sure it makes sense. What a great Bill, though. Yep...gotta love and respect the guy for his contributions. At the same time, this organization needs to think progressively; get with the thought process that it's better to part ways with an aging vet one year too soon than one year too late.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Yep...gotta love and respect the guy for his contributions. At the same time, this organization needs to think progressively; get with the thought process that it's better to part ways with an aging vet one year too soon than one year too late. Agreed. Next offseason we may be in a similar place with Eric Wood, another fine Bill. Might not be a bad idea to prepare for such a thing a year ahead of time at a position with a steep learning curve.
aristocrat Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 i think he's gonna be a bit more than 4 mil...maybe as high as 8 mil. but we need a guy like that to plug that hole and allow dareus and kyle to rush.
Manther Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I'm in, def a big need. Prob won't be that expensiveI am not set on Harrison, but, lean towards him being the best fit. We do need a NT and FA is a good value salary for them usually. IMO we will sign a good one.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Agreed. Next offseason we may be in a similar place with Eric Wood, another fine Bill. Might not be a bad idea to prepare for such a thing a year ahead of time at a position with a steep learning curve. True...you may be able to give Wood a 2-year extension next offseason that's similar to the one given to Kyle Williams last year--gives him some up-front cash and allows the team to gain cap relief the following year. Basically gives them one more year to find his replacement. i think he's gonna be a bit more than 4 mil...maybe as high as 8 mil. but we need a guy like that to plug that hole and allow dareus and kyle to rush. $8M/year for a 2-down player would be wild to see...Dan Williams got $6.25M/year from the Raiders as mostly a 2-down guy, and he was a 1st round pick. I don't see Harrison getting that much as a former UDFA. $5M-$6M range makes sense to me. I am not set on Harrison, but, lean towards him being the best fit. We do need a NT and FA is a good value salary for them usually. IMO we will sign a good one. Indeed...NT is a value position in FA, plus there are as many as 7 guys with starting experience that are slated to be UFAs.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) It's not a coincidence that the running defense suddenly disappeared when Kyle got hurt. I highly doubt Kyle Williams is going anywhere, certainly not to make room for Quentin Coples. He loves it in Buffalo, and would probably renegotiate his contract, and there are many other places for them to find space (McKelvin, Boobie, Clay restructure, Urbik, Easley). Let's not hope the Bills make the same mistake they made when they released Pat Williams at roughly the same age. Im replacing Kyle with 2 huge run stuffers, Ngata and Harrison, that are veterans in the system. Plus signing a cheap 25 year old edge player with 30 starts in the system. Not only does the defense get better, you save cap. You can still make the moves you mentioned as well. Cutting Kyle Williams and signing Haloti Ngata is not the same as letting Pat Williams walk and starting Tim Anderson . Edited February 17, 2016 by TheTruthHurts
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