Rex won't change

[vegas55]

I was and am all for retaining Rex as our coach - continuity is something this team desperately needs. But I do have reservations, the least of which is that Rex will never embrace analytics, will forever be "gut feeling" type of coach. Big mistake, but hey most NFL coaches are in the same boat. It's troubling though how very little attention he pays to game management. His replay review system was so completely inadequate that it boggles the mind. All of his NFL head coaching experience and that was the best he could do - almost as bad as leaving your starting QB in the fourth quarter of a meaningless preseason game, getting him hurt and then explaining that you were going for the win. Just so little attention paid to the strategic big picture.

 

The most troubling aspect of his coaching is the ground and pound philosophy. The only way that works is if you have a great defense, that is, a once in a decade defense which maintains its excellence year after year. It's the hardest thing in the NFL to do. Seattle has it. 49ers had it for a bit, but could not maintain it. Problem with ground and pound is even in those games where your team plays great football, that philosophy keeps the games close score wise, and any wacky thing can happen in the closing minutes of a close NFL game. In the NFL, you HAVE to win the games where you play extremely well. It's too often a crapshoot in close games, where the better team often loses. A consistently great D helps close the deal, but you can't count on that year after year. The perfect example was the Houston game this year. Home game, QB plays great, zero turnovers, superior talent level, good not great defensive play. Bills played great, at home, and with less than two minutes to go the score is tied. Anything could have happened, easily could have lost. Because g & p kept the game close. And that was Hoyer at QB, not Brady.

 

And I know what the response is going to be - you have to have that strong running game. It's all you ever hear from WNY media. Whaley is the same way, he comes from "that Steelers tradition" of strong run game. Hey Doug check out the modern version of the Steelers. If you think their running game is getting them to the playoffs, you are not watching their games.

 

The Bills had the best run game in the NFL in 2015, top three in 2013 but were lousy in the run game in 2014. It was in 2014 they won the most games. And here's the point to answer before you predictably jump on this post and trumpet the wonders of a great run game - you cannot, for over a decade now, have rule change after rule change favoring the pass game, no rule changes helping the run game, and then continue to emphasize the run game the same way it was done 10 years ago. Ignoring the way the game has been artificially changed is a great way to keep missing the playoffs

[KD in CA]

Hey Doug check out the modern version of the Steelers. If you think their running game is getting them to the playoffs, you are not watching their games.

 

Last year it was the Bills running game that got them to the playoffs.

Edited February 16, 2016 by KD in CT

[John from Riverside]

For better or worse.....that is how this team has been biult.

 

The problem is the D dropped....what....20 spots last year? THAT is why they did not make the playoffs.

[YoloinOhio]

The Bills didn't choose to be a run based offense over a pass based offense because they think it's more effective. Those chose that out of necessity with the Bills 2015 personnel. If they would have been able to obtain a QB like Roethlisberger in the offseason like those "modern day Steelers," I'm sure they would have utilized a pass based offense. Even if Orton hadn't retired, they would have probably stuck with that. Last year, Marrone switched from a run based offense to a pass heavy offense when Orton started playing relatively well. It isn't Rex's "preference." He is trying to win with the QB he has.

 

TT is the best QB he's ever had and Watkins is the best WR he's ever had. Maybe as those two continue to develop their games together, things open up a lot more. Roman is the guy who has always been more of a run based OC but he also has never had a great passer. They are both working with what they have.

Edited February 16, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[ChanOverChin]

With better players on defense along with players who truly buy-in to the Ryan system the defense will be just fine. The D doesn't have to be #1 overall. Top 10 even top 15 will suffice. Getting K. Williams and A. Williams back for a full season and having McKelvin for a full season won't hurt either.

 

What the Bills really need is a better QB..............in order to be able to make the playoffs and advance towards the SB. Roman worked miracles with what he had on offense last year (esp. w/ McCoy, Clay, Henderson, and Harvin missing so much time). There is a reason why the Bills had the #1 rushing attack. It's because they are not ready to rely on Taylor to win games for them.

 

Taylor was a very pleasant surprise (I love what he did for us), but the Bills MUST find a better QB to get to where they want to be.

[John from Riverside]

With better players on defense along with players who truly buy-in to the Ryan system the defense will be just fine. The D doesn't have to be #1 overall. Top 10 even top 15 will suffice. Getting K. Williams and A. Williams back for a full season and having McKelvin for a full season won't hurt either.

 

What the Bills really need is a better QB..............in order to be able to make the playoffs and advance towards the SB. Roman worked miracles with what he had on offense last year (esp. w/ McCoy, Clay, Henderson, and Harvin missing so much time). There is a reason why the Bills had the #1 rushing attack. It's because they are not ready to rely on Taylor to win games for them.

 

Taylor was a very pleasant surprise (I love what he did for us), but the Bills MUST find a better QB to get to where they want to be.

Why?

[hondo in seattle]

I'm not sure Rex is a ground and pound guy. I don't think he's such a micromanager that he wouldn't let Roman open up an aerial attack. I think he's been a pound & ground guy in the past out of necessity. Look at his QBs over the years.

 

I think Yolo nails it. And I think you gotta put some of this on DW, too. Whaley couldn't find a premiere QB to build the offense around. So he did the next best thing, he got us a premiere back in Shady. And Roman built the offense around Shady.

[Ronin]

For better or worse.....that is how this team has been biult.

 

The problem is the D dropped....what....20 spots last year? THAT is why they did not make the playoffs.

 

That's exactly right. The O was better by over 2 ppg while the D was worse by over 4 ppg. Had this D performed like last season's D I see no reason why we could not have been 12-4, perhaps a game better, with at least one victory, maybe both, over the Pats.

 

The problem?

 

Rex. He was supposed to be a D guru. Instead he merely proved the NY media 100% correct. I also think he's lost his heart to coach. He said upon coming here that this is his last coaching gig. I don't see the hunger in him for a championship that I see in other coaches. Pure speculation, but IMO he's already said F-it, I've got my 20-some million, what can they do to me but fire me, and if they do I'll take the contract money and run. If he's not going to get another coaching job he'll get every dime.

 

This nonsense about his D schemes being so complex is ludicrous. I'm not arguing that that's not so, but given that it is so, it's terminally impractical in today's NFL where teams are fortunate to keep their units together for two, much less three or four years. It's an uphill battle with attrition, and the now storied "continuity" since every time a key player changes there's no continuity and it threatens to derail the "understanding" of the D for the entire unit.

 

This season we had quite seasoned top-notch defensive players that excelled last season stating that it took them a full season to merely begin to understand Ryan's schemes. That is impractical these days. Maybe in the 80's it would have worked when you could keep a team together for the lack of free agency, but not today where players change teams like we change channels it's something that won't work. As it was in NY Ryan's scoring D's only got worse, regressing from, rather plummeting from, 1st to 24th on his watch from '09 to '14. It dropped permanently from 6th to 20th from Ryan's 2nd to 3rd seasons after having dropped from 1st to 6th from his 1st to 2nd seasons.

 

Is it really that suprising that ours dropped from 4th to 15th this past year? Seems to me we can expect it to drop a few more spots this season where, if history holds, it'll linger and still regress a little until Ryan's no longer the coach.

 

That's what the facts tell us.

I'm not sure Rex is a ground and pound guy. I don't think he's such a micromanager that he wouldn't let Roman open up an aerial attack. I think he's been a pound & ground guy in the past out of necessity.

 

I think he's a guy that's just so full of himself that he can't see clearly. He's obsessed with talk over walk and has been ever since he's been a head coach.

 

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results ...

[billsfan_34]

Who cares anymore? If we win im pleasantly surprised and when we lose I expect it. 17 years it will be- bet on it. If I am wrong then great were in the playoffs but trends and history tells me otherwise. And dont say I dont aupport them- seasons since incubation in my family and im now carrying the torch.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The Bills didn't choose to be a run based offense over a pass based offense because they think it's more effective. Those chose that out of necessity with the Bills 2015 personnel. If they would have been able to obtain a QB like Roethlisberger in the offseason like those "modern day Steelers," I'm sure they would have utilized a pass based offense. Even if Orton hadn't retired, they would have probably stuck with that. Last year, Marrone switched from a run based offense to a pass heavy offense when Orton started playing relatively well. It isn't Rex's "preference." He is trying to win with the QB he has.

 

TT is the best QB he's ever had and Watkins is the best WR he's ever had. Maybe as those two continue to develop their games together, things open up a lot more. Roman is the guy who has always been more of a run based OC but he also has never had a great passer. They are both working with what they have.

 

This, +++++.

[Maury Ballstein]

Rex is king ! Rex Rex Rex !!

[Big Turk]

I was and am all for retaining Rex as our coach - continuity is something this team desperately needs. But I do have reservations, the least of which is that Rex will never embrace analytics, will forever be "gut feeling" type of coach. Big mistake, but hey most NFL coaches are in the same boat. It's troubling though how very little attention he pays to game management. His replay review system was so completely inadequate that it boggles the mind. All of his NFL head coaching experience and that was the best he could do - almost as bad as leaving your starting QB in the fourth quarter of a meaningless preseason game, getting him hurt and then explaining that you were going for the win. Just so little attention paid to the strategic big picture.

 

The most troubling aspect of his coaching is the ground and pound philosophy. The only way that works is if you have a great defense, that is, a once in a decade defense which maintains its excellence year after year. It's the hardest thing in the NFL to do. Seattle has it. 49ers had it for a bit, but could not maintain it. Problem with ground and pound is even in those games where your team plays great football, that philosophy keeps the games close score wise, and any wacky thing can happen in the closing minutes of a close NFL game. In the NFL, you HAVE to win the games where you play extremely well. It's too often a crapshoot in close games, where the better team often loses. A consistently great D helps close the deal, but you can't count on that year after year. The perfect example was the Houston game this year. Home game, QB plays great, zero turnovers, superior talent level, good not great defensive play. Bills played great, at home, and with less than two minutes to go the score is tied. Anything could have happened, easily could have lost. Because g & p kept the game close. And that was Hoyer at QB, not Brady.

 

And I know what the response is going to be - you have to have that strong running game. It's all you ever hear from WNY media. Whaley is the same way, he comes from "that Steelers tradition" of strong run game. Hey Doug check out the modern version of the Steelers. If you think their running game is getting them to the playoffs, you are not watching their games.

 

The Bills had the best run game in the NFL in 2015, top three in 2013 but were lousy in the run game in 2014. It was in 2014 they won the most games. And here's the point to answer before you predictably jump on this post and trumpet the wonders of a great run game - you cannot, for over a decade now, have rule change after rule change favoring the pass game, no rule changes helping the run game, and then continue to emphasize the run game the same way it was done 10 years ago. Ignoring the way the game has been artificially changed is a great way to keep missing the playoffs

Except we weren't really ground and pound.

 

Yeah we ran the ball a lot but we also threw deep off play action with one of the highest deep throw percentages and deep throw completion rates in the NFL. Those put points on the board quick. We have the ability to not only control the clock on the ground but also light teams up deep through the air...that is a very rare combination. We resemble both Seattle and Carolina in that way, two of the highest scoring teams in the league.

 

So yeah, some games will be close, but don't get it twisted, we can put points on the board. If you didn't see that this year, I'm not sure you were paying close enough attention.

Edited February 16, 2016 by matter2003

[billsfan_34]

 

This, +++++.

Rex made more coaching blunders than I can count- we lost at least 3 games because of his ineptness. Hated the hire still hate the hire and will always hate the hire- he sucks as a HC.

[The Big Cat]

 

Last year it was the Bills running game that got them to the playoffs.

 

Oh, and also, if Bell had stayed healthy, OP's argument goes right out the window since they probably wouldn't have needed the Bills win to eek in since the offense would have run through him. Also, they won three games with their starting QB on the sidelines...so...

 

Rex made more coaching blunders than I can count- we lost at least 3 games because of his ineptness. Hated the hire still hate the hire and will always hate the hire- he sucks as a HC.

 

Which games and how did his 'ineptness' result in a loss?

Edited February 16, 2016 by The Big Cat

[John from Riverside]

Rex made more coaching blunders than I can count- we lost at least 3 games because of his ineptness. Hated the hire still hate the hire and will always hate the hire- he sucks as a HC.

EVERY coach has coaching blunders over the course of a season.......

 

Im not defending him.....but lets not act like Rex Ryan is the only HC who has lost games this past year because of decisions he has made. When you combine injuries and bad decisions you lose games.

 

There were games when I thought RR was right on point with his decisions this past year as well.......the team went 8 and 8 not 2 and 14

[Nanker]

Rex made more coaching blunders than I can count- we lost at least 3 games because of his ineptness. Hated the hire still hate the hire and will always hate the hire- he sucks as a HC.

Don't hold back man. Tell us how you really feel about the guy.

 

The Bills didn't choose to be a run based offense over a pass based offense because they think it's more effective. Those chose that out of necessity with the Bills 2015 personnel. If they would have been able to obtain a QB like Roethlisberger in the offseason like those "modern day Steelers," I'm sure they would have utilized a pass based offense. Even if Orton hadn't retired, they would have probably stuck with that. Last year, Marrone switched from a run based offense to a pass heavy offense when Orton started playing relatively well. It isn't Rex's "preference." He is trying to win with the QB he has.

 

TT is the best QB he's ever had and Watkins is the best WR he's ever had. Maybe as those two continue to develop their games together, things open up a lot more. Roman is the guy who has always been more of a run based OC but he also has never had a great passer. They are both working with what they have.

And Clay is probably the best TE he's ever had to work with too. I think the O will be a lot more productive this season than it was last season, and it had some pretty good games.

[vegas55]

Except we weren't really ground and pound.

 

Yeah we ran the ball a lot but we also threw deep off play action with one of the highest deep throw percentages and deep throw completion rates in the NFL. Those put points on the board quick. We have the ability to not only control the clock on the ground but also light teams up deep through the air...that is a very rare combination. We resemble both Seattle and Carolina in that way, two of the highest scoring teams in the league.

 

So yeah, some games will be close, but don't get it twisted, we can put points on the board. If you didn't see that this year, I'm not sure you were paying close enough attention.

Wow "we weren't ground and pound" "yea we ran the ball a lot" - The Bills ran the ball more than anybody in the NFL. Ground and pound doesn't mean you run the ball on every play, nor does it have anything to do with the type of passes you throw. You do shorten the game, and you do keep the score close, regardless of how well you are playing. Sure if the D is fantastic that day and you get lots of turnovers you will roll some teams. Count on that happening every week and see so far that gets you. Or has gotten you.

 

And just as I predicted not one response to ignoring a decades worth of rule changes favoring the passing game. Maybe, just maybe if they pass a rule where you are not allowed to tackle a receiver after he catches the ball, then it might spur some to examine the wisdom of emphasizing the run game in an era where everything favors the pass.

[The Big Cat]

Don't hold back man. Tell us how you really feel about the guy.

 

And Clay is probably the best TE he's ever had to work with too. I think the O will be a lot more productive this season than it was last season, and it had some pretty good games.

 

It also had some serious stinkers that ultimately cost the team a victory: NYG, PHI and the second half of KC come to mind. Lest we forget that before TT pulled one from where the sun don't shine, the offense had accumulated 57 total yards through more than 2 and a half quarters against Tennessee.

 

I know everyone wants to burn RR at the stake and all, but the offense sure did their part to put a damper on things with their 31st ranked three and out percentage.

Edited February 16, 2016 by The Big Cat

[Beerball]

With better players on defense along with players who truly buy-in to the Ryan system the defense will be just fine. The D doesn't have to be #1 overall. Top 10 even top 15 will suffice. Getting K. Williams and A. Williams back for a full season and having McKelvin for a full season won't hurt either.

 

What the Bills really need is a better QB..............in order to be able to make the playoffs and advance towards the SB. Roman worked miracles with what he had on offense last year (esp. w/ McCoy, Clay, Henderson, and Harvin missing so much time). There is a reason why the Bills had the #1 rushing attack. It's because they are not ready to rely on Taylor to win games for them.

 

Taylor was a very pleasant surprise (I love what he did for us), but the Bills MUST find a better QB to get to where they want to be.

so what you're saying is that it takes much better talent to turn a top 5 defense into a bottom third defense?

[The Big Cat]

Couldn't disagree more. The HC has a run first menso what you're saying is that it takes much better talent to turn a top 5 defense into a bottom third defense?

 

And while he surely does, he hasn't exactly had the QB bullpen to be anything else (to Yolo's point)