good news on the ralph..

[zonabb]

I've maintained all along that a new stadium makes zero sense for the Pegulas under current economic conditions, that is limited growth. Don't confuse billions in tax breaks, tax credits, and other forms of corporate welfare to build new buildings as a so-called resurgence. Buffalo is still shedding population, experiencing increasing poverty, and widespread urban decline. The region isn't doing much better. So there's no market to build a new stadium and jack up tickets prices. More importantly, absent increasing wealth in the region across the demographic spectrum, the Pegulas realize the most profitable stadium is the one with zero debt service. The reality is that even with state and local money, the Pegulas realize they'd have to outlay hundreds of millions with little return. Staying at the Ralph makes the most sense and the NFL is going to have to realize that in many small markets, mega stadiums as a tool to squeeze the populace of more money aren't the answer.

 

Last point on eminent domain...that's a slippery slope with some very tough political optics. The Bills need the local government to act as condemnor, meaning Orchard Park or the City of Buffalo. I'm not sure either of those two entities would like to take someone's property and give it to a billionaire. I think realistically, the Pegulas are going to have to overpay for properties if they choose to get into acquisition. Also, it's the fastest way, takings can run through the legal system especially slowly when am owner(s) refuses to sell.

Hopefully they stay at the Ralph.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

 

Just curious, why not build next to the Ralph ?

Because the cost is basically the same as building downtown.

[Mr. WEO]

Harsh... but maybe not inaccurate. The emoticon may be spot on.

 

Frankly, Bflo is in the bottom 5 teams economically. No shame in that.

 

I would vote for any Ralph renovation that keeps it at about the 28th stadium, by national standards.

 

We don't need the excess. But I don't want the Ralph to be the crappiest stadium. That would be bad for the region.

 

Why would having the worst stadium be bad for the region? Is it bad for the region now?

 

Arrowhead and Lambeau field have both underwent massive " full renovation" in recent years instead of being replaced. The same type of full renovation was on the table for the Ralph at about double the cost of the renovations that were done. Blame the county exec and others for that. Otherwise there might be no conversation necessary. They opted for the less expensive " window dressing " improvements.

 

 

Actually you should thank them for that. They opted for the less expensive option to save taxpayers money. Imagine if they dropped another 150 million and then Pegula decides to build a stadium downtown. Erie would be left paying off a demolished stadium for years. Ask St. Louis how that tastes...

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Please explain what you read in the report that would exclude building a new stadium next to the Ralph.

The lack of development opportunities around the stadium. Cost for an open air stadium was close. Edited February 15, 2016 by TheTruthHurts

[RalphOP83]

The mud lot?

Yes

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Here is the report for those that never read it.

 

http://wivb.com/2015/01/18/study-lists-four-potential-stadium-sites-for-the-buffalo-bills/

[papazoid]

this is no news.....they said nothing .....other than we have lots of time to worry about that down the road.

 

they basically bought themselves 3-4 years of avoiding detailed answers.

 

 

it'll be about the year 2020 before serious talks start about who is contributing/paying what. Cuomo may or may not be governor. the current lease expires in 2023 and 1 year options/extensions can easily be done.

 

i'd say 2025 is the earliest for a new stadium.

[Chandler#81]

A downtown dome would suck...

Tell me again, what the temp was here yesterday. MINUS 12? I was at the Jets finale and follow up Raider playoff games -coldest 2 games in team history. Give me a couch, a beer, sammiches delivered by scantily-clad lasses, a bathroom and a big jumbotron in a Dome!

[Billschinatown]

Tell me again, what the temp was here yesterday. MINUS 12? I was at the Jets finale and follow up Raider playoff games -coldest 2 games in team history. Give me a couch, a beer, sammiches delivered by scantily-clad lasses, a bathroom and a big jumbotron in a Dome!

 

I think that if you feel that way everyone else should feel that way. I think that you're right. I think that there's nothing to be said for live sporting events. Big screen nation baby.

[papazoid]

retractable roof

[jr1]

hoverboard charging stations

[PromoTheRobot]

 

I think that if you feel that way everyone else should feel that way. I think that you're right. I think that there's nothing to be said for live sporting events. Big screen nation baby.

I respect all viewpoints and opinions as long as they agree with mine.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Why is it good news that the Bills will not have a new stadium anytime soon? This is 2016. The Ralph opened in 1973. That is a LONG TIME ago. After San Diego and Oakland either get new stadiums or move, the Ralph will be the oldest stadium in the league. (Kansas City, Chicago and Green Bay have made major renovations) Why is that anything to be proud of? Everyone seems to be so caught up in all the tailgating. I haven't lived in Buffalo for years, but have been back for my share of games, and have enjoyed the tailgating. But do you not think that the fans party it up in every other city in America that has football, both pro and college? Of course they do. And there will be partying at any new stadium that is built as well. But seriously a lot of you sound like the tailgating is as important if not more important to whether we win or not. Have any of you been to Met Life Stadium in New Jersey? Take the Path train from Penn Station out to the New Jersey's swamps. The Giants fans are just as passionate chanting on the trains heading to the game. Partying in a huge wind swept parking lot is not one step from Nirvana. I can get my partying at a lot of other places other than a football stadium parking lot. I just want a winner on the field. And a shiny new toy in the form of a new stadium would be a nice complement.

 

Atlanta opened the Georgia Dome in 1992, and have a new stadium set to open for the 2017 season. It may not be Englewood, but it will be sweet nonetheless. Progress is exciting. Why should we be the dregs of the NFL? Our team hasn't made the playoffs in 16 seasons, and we also have a stadium from another era. It isn't a bad place to watch a game. But to be happy that we will not have a new stadium for up to another decade makes no sense whatsoever. Are many of you going to stay in an old run down house, just because you have a nice deck to have BBQ's on for three months of the year??? I didn't think so.

 

So wake up people of Western New York the millenium known as the 21st century started a long time ago. And it would behoove a lot of you to get a grander picture of where the world is going. Maybe when you watch games from Minnesota and Atlanta's new facilities in the upcoming seasons you might feel differently.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

So what your saying is if either the Chargers or Raiders do not move to LA or get a new stadium lined up this year the NFL will force them to move out of the country?

My London mention was meant as sarcasm regarding the greed of the NFL. Although some day soon I don't see as being that far fetched. That being said, I do think if the Chargers or Raiders don't get new stadiums lined up the NFL will try to push them out to a city/state that will help the owner fund a new stadium. Same thing will happen to us if a new stadium isn't built. Point is that I simply don't think there is a choice in to build or not to build a new stadium. Edited February 15, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Captain Hindsight]

I'm still amazed at how much people want from a stadium. A place to park, a beer/sofa/hot chocolate and a sandwich, a bathroom, and a decent sized jumbotron. There's a big family section if you'd like.

 

Its a 3 hour sporting event, and then you leave. What's the big deal about extra amenities. God we're getting wimpier by the day.

+1

I knew people that were pumped that Wifi was going to be available in the stadium.

 

My first thought was why? I'm there to watch the game, not Netflix

[plenzmd1]

Why is it good news that the Bills will not have a new stadium anytime soon? This is 2016. The Ralph opened in 1973. That is a LONG TIME ago. After San Diego and Oakland either get new stadiums or move, the Ralph will be the oldest stadium in the league. (Kansas City, Chicago and Green Bay have made major renovations) Why is that anything to be proud of? Everyone seems to be so caught up in all the tailgating. I haven't lived in Buffalo for years, but have been back for my share of games, and have enjoyed the tailgating. But do you not think that the fans party it up in every other city in America that has football, both pro and college? Of course they do. And there will be partying at any new stadium that is built as well. But seriously a lot of you sound like the tailgating is as important if not more important to whether we win or not. Have any of you been to Met Life Stadium in New Jersey? Take the Path train from Penn Station out to the New Jersey's swamps. The Giants fans are just as passionate chanting on the trains heading to the game. Partying in a huge wind swept parking lot is not one step from Nirvana. I can get my partying at a lot of other places other than a football stadium parking lot. I just want a winner on the field. And a shiny new toy in the form of a new stadium would be a nice complement.

 

Atlanta opened the Georgia Dome in 1992, and have a new stadium set to open for the 2017 season. It may not be Englewood, but it will be sweet nonetheless. Progress is exciting. Why should we be the dregs of the NFL? Our team hasn't made the playoffs in 16 seasons, and we also have a stadium from another era. It isn't a bad place to watch a game. But to be happy that we will not have a new stadium for up to another decade makes no sense whatsoever. Are many of you going to stay in an old run down house, just because you have a nice deck to have BBQ's on for three months of the year??? I didn't think so.

 

So wake up people of Western New York the millenium known as the 21st century started a long time ago. And it would behoove a lot of you to get a grander picture of where the world is going. Maybe when you watch games from Minnesota and Atlanta's new facilities in the upcoming seasons you might feel differently.

i am 53 and tailgating is absolutely a HUGE part of the experience for me. The game is a family and friends affair for us, all coming from all t different economic levels, and tailgaiting at the game makes hannging out with family and friends for 9 hours doable.

 

And new stadium does not mean better. I go quite often to the Bills games in Gillete, and the train ride from South Station to Foxborough sucks. That being said, i think the stadium is great, and i am not being sarcastic...if you can afford to sit in the lower bowl for at least $200 a ticket($160 lowest face) . Cause once you get above the 3 levels of suites and sit in the first row of the upper deck, you are at about row 36 in the Ralph. Newer does not make better. But damn, the concourses up there are nice and wide, and they have a bunch of different fried food than the Ralphs fried food...and you get to enjoy it the wind cause its always windy up there!

 

Try Fedex out for comfort someday...you will really see what a miserable, drunken fan experience can be like. And they have all the b ells and whistles you so crave...most likely the worst game day experience in the NFL.

 

All i am saying is the stadium is part of the experience , but not all of it. I want them to retro the Ralph, and I know I am a sentimentalist, but I also think tradition can be great. Ask almost any NFL fan where they want to see an NFL game outside of their own stadium, and universally it is Lambeau. Baseball fans all want to go to Fenway and Wrigley..sometimes tradition can count for something more than $$$$$.

Edited February 15, 2016 by plenzmd1

[dwight in philly]

i am 53 and tailgating is absolutely a HUGE part of the experience for me. The game is a family and friends affair for us, all coming from all t different economic levels, and tailgaiting at the game makes hannging out with family and friends for 9 hours doable.

 

And new stadium does not mean better. I go quite often to the Bills games in Gillete, and the train ride from South Station to Foxborough sucks. That being said, i think the stadium is great, and i am not being sarcastic...if you can afford to sit in the lower bowl for at least $200 a ticket($160 lowest face) . Cause once you get above the 3 levels of suites and sit in the first row of the upper deck, you are at about row 36 in the Ralph. Newer does not make better. But damn, the concourses up there are nice and wide, and they have a bunch of different fried food than the Ralphs fried food...and you get to enjoy it the wind cause its always windy up there!

 

Try Fedex out for comfort someday...you will really see what a miserable, drunken fan experience can be like. And they have all the b ells and whistles you so crave...most likely the worst game day experience in the NFL.

 

All i am saying is the stadium is part of the experience , but not all of it. I want them to retro the Ralph, and I know I am a sentimentalist, but I also think tradition can be great. Ask almost any NFL fan where they want to see an NFL game outside of their own stadium, and universally it is Lambeau. Baseball fans all want to go to Fenway and Wrigley..sometimes tradition can count for something more than $$$$$.

well said..

[coloradobillsfan]

But seriously a lot of you sound like the tailgating is as important if not more important to whether we win or not.

 

For the last 15 years I've been coming home to Buffalo for the game closest to Christmas, to be back with my friends and family that live in WNY.

Guess how the Bills are usually doing by this time of year?

So yeah, the tailgating is a pretty important factor to me attending a game that means pretty much nothing in the standings, aside from being occasional spoilers. The great times we have in the lots makes it worthwhile

[Mr. WEO]

My London mention was meant as sarcasm regarding the greed of the NFL. Although some day soon I don't see as being that far fetched. That being said, I do think if the Chargers or Raiders don't get new stadiums lined up the NFL will try to push them out to a city/state that will help the owner fund a new stadium. Same thing will happen to us if a new stadium isn't built. Point is that I simply don't think there is a choice in to build or not to build a new stadium.

 

Unless you live in a cave, you would know that the NFL actually has welcomed the Chargers to join the Rams in Kroenke's new stadium. And if they turn it down, the NFL will welcome the Raiders to LA in place of the Chargers.

 

Your sarcasm is really paranoia.

[May Day 10]

Why is it good news that the Bills will not have a new stadium anytime soon? This is 2016. The Ralph opened in 1973. That is a LONG TIME ago. After San Diego and Oakland either get new stadiums or move, the Ralph will be the oldest stadium in the league. (Kansas City, Chicago and Green Bay have made major renovations) Why is that anything to be proud of? Everyone seems to be so caught up in all the tailgating. I haven't lived in Buffalo for years, but have been back for my share of games, and have enjoyed the tailgating. But do you not think that the fans party it up in every other city in America that has football, both pro and college? Of course they do. And there will be partying at any new stadium that is built as well. But seriously a lot of you sound like the tailgating is as important if not more important to whether we win or not. Have any of you been to Met Life Stadium in New Jersey? Take the Path train from Penn Station out to the New Jersey's swamps. The Giants fans are just as passionate chanting on the trains heading to the game. Partying in a huge wind swept parking lot is not one step from Nirvana. I can get my partying at a lot of other places other than a football stadium parking lot. I just want a winner on the field. And a shiny new toy in the form of a new stadium would be a nice complement.

 

Atlanta opened the Georgia Dome in 1992, and have a new stadium set to open for the 2017 season. It may not be Englewood, but it will be sweet nonetheless. Progress is exciting. Why should we be the dregs of the NFL? Our team hasn't made the playoffs in 16 seasons, and we also have a stadium from another era. It isn't a bad place to watch a game. But to be happy that we will not have a new stadium for up to another decade makes no sense whatsoever. Are many of you going to stay in an old run down house, just because you have a nice deck to have BBQ's on for three months of the year??? I didn't think so.

 

So wake up people of Western New York the millenium known as the 21st century started a long time ago. And it would behoove a lot of you to get a grander picture of where the world is going. Maybe when you watch games from Minnesota and Atlanta's new facilities in the upcoming seasons you might feel differently.

 

 

I have driven 10+ hours to attend a baseball game at Wrigley. It was very inconvenient. Some asian man sold me parking for $10 at his nearby townhouse. The experience was unforgettable and I would recommend it to anyone. The stadium was from "another era" as you say. Fenway, same thing.

 

Ralph Wilson Stadium is becoming increasingly awesome in many ways and it doesnt necessarily mean the tailgating (although the Stadium in the neighborhood thing adds to the ambiance). I know people who make or intend to make a trip to a Bills game a "destination" for the experience. Crowd is into it because we dont have a stratified by class stadium and have a bunch of suites in front of the fans. Sight lines are great. Its got the "dump" factor which becomes more charming over the years.

 

It would be awesome if someday I could bring my kid to a game when he is older and show him the exact place I always went to games.... passing it down generations. This is where the comeback happened, the Raiders AFC Championship game, Kelly, Thomas, Reed, fans storming the field winning the AFC East, etc... Many of us played high school championship games there, saw concerts there, Grateful Dead, etc. I dont want to hit the reset button.

 

There is a lot of value in keeping the old place running. IMO the fans are who we are. I dont believe we have a wealthy class waiting to plop their money down as long as there is a new stadium built... The experience would be downgraded for many of the current paying customers with a new stadium and the prices would increase. As long as the team is competitive at the new debt free stadium, they will be able to increase ticket prices. Suites are there and they struggle to fill those up as it is.... why need more, and more expensive ones. Buffalo is not San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta, or even Minneapolis. I say make effective renovations to preserve RWS. I wouldnt hate it if it didnt take 20 minutes to go to the bathroom, and for food to take forever... but I dont need fantasy football lounges, rotating seats, red zone channel piped into my brain, etc.

Edited February 15, 2016 by May Day 10