Saxum Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Seems a little one-sided, and I don't buy that the Pegulas thought Schwartz was staying. If they really wanted him to stay they wouldn't have hired Rex. That's not a match at all. Even if Rex had kept him it wouldn't have made sense. Not how Rex coaches.... He calls the plays. They have very different defensive philosophies. The anonymous coach may be accurately portraying some things. I have no idea. Otherwise, nothing new was presented in the article that hasn't been hashed and rehashed a thousand times. I have never thought Vic was a poor writer. I have thought he may have a poor source on some things. Definitely slanted and it is how Vic has been since he returned to the Buffalo News. He has made up his opinion like JohnC and all articles are written to match the opinion; any fact or observation that does not fit that slant is discarded. This is the level to which the Buffalo News has fallen to and based on reactions it is level of paper Buffalo DESERVES. It is a witch hunt complete with with torches and Trump would have been perfect owner with his half-truths, mostly lies and distortions. I did not like changes made last year and do not see how it is possible for talent Bills committed on to fit into it but there are many players and coaches which have stated that Rex is a good coach whose schemes work when players understand and buy into them. The problem I see is discipline and Rex's inclination to be a "Player's coach". When the players do not buy in it is hard to be a "Player's coach" and discipline poorly functioning players.
Mr. WEO Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Clearly Rex effed up last year. But before we go too far down the Schwartz-is-a-genius-and-Rex-is-a-buffoon road with Vic, let's think about a few facts... One year doesn't define a coach. In 2006, when Schwartz was the DC of Tennesee, his defense was ranked #32. The same year, Rex's Baltimore D was ranked #1. I guess in that season, Rex was the genius and Schwartz the buffoon. So why did we hire Schwartz in 2014? Both Rex and Schwartz had the opportunity to run defenses as both HC and DC. Rex has the far better record. Schwartz's best year was his last year with the Bills. Rex's worst year was last year with the Bills. In 8 years with Tenn, 5 years with the Lions, and one year here, Schwartz's defenses earned an average rank of #18. About every other season, he finishes in the bottom half of the league. In 4 years as DC of Baltimore, 6 years with the Jests and 1 with us, Rex's defenses averaged #6. Almost every season, he's in the top 10. When both were HC/DC in the NFL at the same time, Rex led the better defense 8 of 10 seasons. The talent that Rex had, especially in Baltimore, was not comparable to the talent Schwartz had....until they got to Buffalo. With essentially same talent (maybe even better this year), the results were drastically different between the two coaches. That's the valid comparison.
NorthBuffaloKid Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Definitely slanted and it is how Vic has been since he returned to the Buffalo News. He has made up his opinion like JohnC and all articles are written to match the opinion; any fact or observation that does not fit that slant is discarded. This is the level to which the Buffalo News has fallen to and based on reactions it is level of paper Buffalo DESERVES. It is a witch hunt complete with with torches and Trump would have been perfect owner with his half-truths, mostly lies and distortions. I did not like changes made last year and do not see how it is possible for talent Bills committed on to fit into it but there are many players and coaches which have stated that Rex is a good coach whose schemes work when players understand and buy into them. The problem I see is discipline and Rex's inclination to be a "Player's coach". When the players do not buy in it is hard to be a "Player's coach" and discipline poorly functioning players. Yep...All the personal fouls are an indication of this very fact.
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Definitely slanted and it is how Vic has been since he returned to the Buffalo News. He has made up his opinion like JohnC and all articles are written to match the opinion; any fact or observation that does not fit that slant is discarded. This is the level to which the Buffalo News has fallen to and based on reactions it is level of paper Buffalo DESERVES. It is a witch hunt complete with with torches and Trump would have been perfect owner with his half-truths, mostly lies and distortions. I did not like changes made last year and do not see how it is possible for talent Bills committed on to fit into it but there are many players and coaches which have stated that Rex is a good coach whose schemes work when players understand and buy into them. The problem I see is discipline and Rex's inclination to be a "Player's coach". When the players do not buy in it is hard to be a "Player's coach" and discipline poorly functioning players. i thought it was a bit odd that his anonymous ex coach provided an inaccurate statement and Vic quoted him anyway (for effect?) even though he knew it was far from correct and admitted it in the next sentence. It was something like "they were bottom 10 in all defensive categories" and then Vic said "actually they were bottom 10 in 4 of 12 defensive categories." Why even use the quote? It just sheds credibility from the source.
Mr. WEO Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 i thought it was a bit odd that his anonymous ex coach provided an inaccurate statement and Vic quoted him anyway (for effect?) even though he knew it was far from correct and admitted it in the next sentence. It was something like "they were bottom 10 in all defensive categories" and then Vic said "actually they were bottom 10 in 4 of 12 defensive categories." Why even use the quote? It just sheds credibility from the source. Why would Vic edit the guy's quotes? He's letting you decide what to make of this coach's claims. Isn't that what a reporter is supposed to do?
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) it's fairly deeply reported too. For those who think it's a good piece (as I do), remember it the next time you think about writing that everyone at the BN sucks except for Tyler Dunne ... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/ i don't think he "sucks" but there are several writers at the BN I just don't even read (Sullivan, Harrington, Gleason) because they are annoying. Compared to Dunne though, this article seems one-sided. Dunne often will get more than one angle, as I recall. This one really doesn't but it also doesn't say much that we didn't know. Edited February 14, 2016 by YoloinOhio
K D Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 If they wanted Schwartz to stay then why didn't they make Rex keep him instead of allowing him to bring in his circus of goons? Or hire Greg Roman as coach and keep Schwartz? Would coulda shoulda. We would 100% be in the playoffs with a Greg Roman offense + Jim Schwartz defense. Now we have to blow up the defense and start from scratch and if they don't then we are going to have a terrible year. We aren't a couple pieces away from a Rex Ryan defense. We are a DT, DE, 2 LB's, and a S away. And hopefully those LB's are named Ray Lewis and Bart Scott
TPS Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 As one who wanted Schwartz as HC, I'm surprised anyone would believe the 2 could be compatible. VC's article is simply stoking the Rex resentment. That said, and As one who posted before the season that I was skeptical that RR could improve on JS's D #s, I don't think anyone expected it to be as bad as it was. I still thought Rex would field a top 10 D. The players have no choice but to buy in this year, and malcontent Mario will be gone. Add a couple new pieces from the draft, and it's a put up or shut up year for the Ryans.
hondo in seattle Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 The talent that Rex had, especially in Baltimore, was not comparable to the talent Schwartz had....until they got to Buffalo. With essentially same talent (maybe even better this year), the results were drastically different between the two coaches. That's the valid comparison. It's not necessarily a valid comparison for a few reasons. * Maybe the talent we had was better suited for a Schwartz 4-3 Wide 9 scheme than for a Rex scheme. * Rex's D had more injuries. * Maybe it takes Rex longer to install his more complicated defense but once it gets going, it outperforms Schwartz's defense. Rex failed last year. But history says Rex is the better defensive guru nonetheless.
3rdand12 Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I dont mind the article. But it seems it's another article to divide the fan base. Those guys are really quite expert at riling us up ! I thought the story at the time was that Schwartz was given the opportunity to stay on, but chose to leave on his own (not that anyone realistically expected him to stay). This was how i recall it, exactly. I think any offensive coach hired would've kept Schwartz and company. They'd be dumb not too after the 2014 season results.With that said, the real person to blame is whoever thought it would be a good idea to hire Rex Ryan... All reports suggest it was Pegulas decision.Well let me clarify. From a football standpoint it was a bad hire. From a marketing and sales perspective. Great hire. Which seems to drive this organization more then it does winning. Agree 110% in regard to the bolded
3rdand12 Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 It's not necessarily a valid comparison for a few reasons. * Maybe the talent we had was better suited for a Schwartz 4-3 Wide 9 scheme than for a Rex scheme. * Rex's D had more injuries. * Maybe it takes Rex longer to install his more complicated defense but once it gets going, it outperforms Schwartz's defense. Rex failed last year. But history says Rex is the better defensive guru nonetheless. It was year one with a completely new set of Coaches and a new program. Pegula knows this was going to take at least a couple years to become a playoff caliber team and he has given Rex the keys. If anyone wants to be pissed, be pissed at The Dude , El Pegul, who runs the show. I am not upset enough to continuously bash anyone at OBD. Even Rex. And i thought the Bills were very entertaining last season. Do I expect a major step forward this coming year? Why yes, as a matter of fact i do. and i think that is what we will see.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I agree, good piece. The most intriguing thing to me is the description of the whiplash Schwartz got - that Bills FO officials were saying "we want Schwartz to stay" whilst Rex had Dennis Thurman moving his things into Schwartz office, all without having a discussion with Schwartz, then finally telling Schwartz he was terminated. At face value, it sounds as though Rex (at best) misled the Pegulas and the Bills as to his intent for the defense then behaved like a tool to Schwartz while not communicating his intentions clearly. At worst, it sounds as though he (at least verbally) committed to leaving the D intact and retaining Schwartz, then once his contract was signed and he was in the building, reneged. Either way, that's a crap way to behave. to be expected from the bully. Don't worry he will be gone after this yr or next. Funny how "continuity" lost out when it came to keeping Schwartz and his top-ranked defense, but a year later this same "continuity" was cited as the biggest reason we now have to endure another year of Rex's clown show. exactly, the pegs should have hired Schwartz as HC and let him pick his OC. I bet we would have made the playoffs this yrs (depending on QB and system of course)
dave mcbride Posted February 14, 2016 Author Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) i don't think he "sucks" but there are several writers at the BN I just don't even read (Sullivan, Harrington, Gleason) because they are annoying. Compared to Dunne though, this article seems one-sided. Dunne often will get more than one angle, as I recall. This one really doesn't but it also doesn't say much that we didn't know.My takeaway from this piece: it confirms a sad thing I already knew--our head coach isn't good enough to adapt to a system that clearly works. Good coaches -- Belichick, Pete Carroll, etc. adapt and aren't wedded to one approach. They know that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are better than others depending on the types of tools at hand. At least with regard to defense, there is only one way for Rex. He has has a had a lot of success with it in the past, but the defense was bad this past year and not that good the year before in NY (24th in points). I do realize he had a major injury problem in NY in the secondary in 2014, so there are some other factors. As for Vic, he clearly stated that Schwartz was fired. I had not heard that before, and that's news. Given how he said it, I'm assuming it's true. Would Schwartz have stayed if he had been given free rein? If he believed he was getting it, I don't see why not. Edited February 14, 2016 by dave mcbride
boyst Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 It was year one with a completely new set of Coaches and a new program. Pegula knows this was going to take at least a couple years to become a playoff caliber team and he has given Rex the keys. If anyone wants to be pissed, be pissed at The Dude , El Pegul, who runs the show. I am not upset enough to continuously bash anyone at OBD. Even Rex. And i thought the Bills were very entertaining last season. Do I expect a major step forward this coming year? Why yes, as a matter of fact i do. and i think that is what we will see. i think we were a playoff calibre team in 2015. i think the talent and roster was there. i think the organization and coaching was not. organization and talent cost us at least one game - likely two. injuries, the same. disirregardless, injuries always happen and can't be used as an excuse. poor coaching and being unorganized cannot be an excuse.
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) My takeaway from this piece: it confirms a sad thing I already knew--our head coach isn't good enough to adapt to a system that clearly works. Good coaches -- Belichick, Pete Carroll, etc. adapt and aren't wedded to one approach. They know that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are better than others depending on the types of tools at hand. At least with regard to defense, there is only one way for Rex. He has has a had a lot of success with it in the past, but the defense was bad this past year and not that good the year before in NY (24th in points). I do realize he had a major injury problem in NY in the secondary in 2014, so there are some other factors. As for Vic, he clearly stated that Schwartz was fired. I had not heard that before, and that's news. Given how he said it, I'm assuming it's true. Would Schwartz have stayed if he had been given free rein? If he believed he was getting it, I don't see why not. he was fired. They terminated his contract. They did that so that he would continue to be paid. They did him a favor. He chose to leave, he could have stayed on the staff. They were paying him either way. That was the story. Technically, he was fired. It was indeed reported that way at the time, nothing new. I don't blame him for leaving, it would have been a terrible fit. And Thurman was going to be the DC. What would he have been, co DC? Assistant HC, defense, like Rob is now? Makes no sense, given their different philosophies. Here is one article from last January http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html Vic tweet from 1/12/15 @viccarucci Seems unlikely DC Jim Schwartz will remain w #Bills, despite Rex Ryan offering him chance to stay. Schwartz probably gone by tomorrow. Edited February 14, 2016 by YoloinOhio
FireChan Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) he was fired. They terminated his contract. They did that so that he would continue to be paid. They did him a favor. He chose to leave, he could have stayed on the staff. They were paying him either way. That was the story. Technically, he was fired. It was indeed reported that way at the time, nothing new. I don't blame him for leaving, it would have been a terrible fit. And Thurman was going to be the DC. What would he have been, co DC? Makes no sense. Link? Sounds like he couldn't have stayed if it made no sense. Sounds like he was given an offer he couldn't refuse. Edited February 14, 2016 by FireChan
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 it's fairly deeply reported too. For those who think it's a good piece (as I do), remember it the next time you think about writing that everyone at the BN sucks except for Tyler Dunne ... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/ “Rex wants to win, whoever is doing the ‘D’ doesn’t matter,” the high-ranking team official insisted in another text on Jan. 11, 2015. “It’s what’s best for the team.” wow the incompetence with this team is amazing, Pegula should have just cleaned house when he got here. We are the Sabres all over again, hopefully in a Couple of yrs we get our SB winning coach and Eichel.
Marty McFly Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I agree, good piece. The most intriguing thing to me is the description of the whiplash Schwartz got - that Bills FO officials were saying "we want Schwartz to stay" whilst Rex had Dennis Thurman moving his things into Schwartz office, all without having a discussion with Schwartz, then finally telling Schwartz he was terminated. At face value, it sounds as though Rex (at best) misled the Pegulas and the Bills as to his intent for the defense then behaved like a tool to Schwartz while not communicating his intentions clearly. At worst, it sounds as though he (at least verbally) committed to leaving the D intact and retaining Schwartz, then once his contract was signed and he was in the building, reneged. Either way, that's a crap way to behave. What a lack of honor.....smh more disapointment...
Nanker Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 This is on the Pegulas then if they wanted to keep Schwartz, they should have hired an Offensive-minded HC, not the Offensive HC they did hire.
RussellDopeland Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Funny how "continuity" lost out when it came to keeping Schwartz and his top-ranked defense, but a year later this same "continuity" was cited as the biggest reason we now have to endure another year of Rex's clown show. Don't get the sychophants riled up. "Continuity" isn't just a catchphrase to them, it's their raison d'être.
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