Vic C's BN piece--really rips Rex as defensive coach

[FireChan]

So Rex has had a number 1 ranked defense......

 

I seem to remember having this same conversation at one point......about Jim Schwartz

To be fair, that was before his first season, and coming off a poor running defense, which is historically a weakness of a Wide 9 set-up. Also, I believe it was before we signed Brandon Spikes.

 

Sorta apples to oranges, and the "sky is falling" crowd has a lot more material to work with seeing as we've already had a season of poor Rex D, no great or difference making FA's on the horizon, and we have quite a few holes to fill.

Edited February 29, 2016 by FireChan

[Nihilarian]

 

By that logic, the Bills should have never hired Marv Levy (31-42 at the time) nor should the Pats have hired Bill Bellichick (36-44 at the time). Both had worse winning pcts than Rex in their first gigs as NFL HCs and few would have said they were destined for greatness.

 

Sometimes HCs learn and get better.

 

Sometimes HCs are in disadvantageous positions with weak rosters.

 

Personally, I see enough bright spots - and enough blemishes - in Rex's record that I can't feel very optimistic nor suicidally pessimistic. At this point, I'm solidly in the wait-and-see camp.

and for every Belichick, Levy success story there is an even bigger list of bums that never did anything after a year or two of success. Dick Jauron had his one year and Rex had two seasons long ago

 

Let's face facts here, Marv Levy walked into a perfect storm of talent mostly already on the team. He also had director of scouting in Norm Pollom who Chuck Knox brought with him to Buffalo from the Rams. Pollom helped Bill Polian get hired in Buffalo and now we know how the talent got there. Levy was also smart enough to hire some people smarter than himself to run his offense. Ted Marchibroda taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays on the field and hence why the offense stayed good after Ole Ted went back to the Colts as HC. Marv got exceeding lucky and so many coaches never get the opportunity like he had in Buffalo.

 

Belichick is a unique individual in that he can scout talent and build a team as a GM if needed. He watches countless hours of film on his opponents so basically there is nothing they can do to surprise him. He was a brilliant DC for Bill Parcells and we all know first hand how good he was in that respect. I love Marv, but he is not on the same level as Belichick by any means. Perhaps he might be better at special teams than Bill.

 

In my view about the ONLY HC on par with Belichick is Pete Carroll in terms of finding defensive talent in the draft in the later rounds and then developing them into all pro players.

 

 

I'm hoping that these new owners are only giving Rex Ryan a very short leash to prove himself in 2016 because the talent was there in 2015 for a playoff run. The Bills could be less talented this season without Mario and others. I fear nothing will change for this franchise until these new owners finally realize that they need someone at the top of the org that is an actual football man with experience in running an NFL winning team.

[ALF]

Were the last 2 games of the season Rex D or Schwartz D ?

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23835/rex-ryans-story-inconsistent-on-late-season-success-of-bills-defense

[hondo in seattle]

and for every Belichick, Levy success story there is an even bigger list of bums that never did anything after a year or two of success. Dick Jauron had his one year and Rex had two seasons long ago

 

Let's face facts here, Marv Levy walked into a perfect storm of talent mostly already on the team. He also had director of scouting in Norm Pollom who Chuck Knox brought with him to Buffalo from the Rams. Pollom helped Bill Polian get hired in Buffalo and now we know how the talent got there. Levy was also smart enough to hire some people smarter than himself to run his offense. Ted Marchibroda taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays on the field and hence why the offense stayed good after Ole Ted went back to the Colts as HC. Marv got exceeding lucky and so many coaches never get the opportunity like he had in Buffalo.

 

Belichick is a unique individual in that he can scout talent and build a team as a GM if needed. He watches countless hours of film on his opponents so basically there is nothing they can do to surprise him. He was a brilliant DC for Bill Parcells and we all know first hand how good he was in that respect. I love Marv, but he is not on the same level as Belichick by any means. Perhaps he might be better at special teams than Bill.

 

In my view about the ONLY HC on par with Belichick is Pete Carroll in terms of finding defensive talent in the draft in the later rounds and then developing them into all pro players.

 

 

I'm hoping that these new owners are only giving Rex Ryan a very short leash to prove himself in 2016 because the talent was there in 2015 for a playoff run. The Bills could be less talented this season without Mario and others. I fear nothing will change for this franchise until these new owners finally realize that they need someone at the top of the org that is an actual football man with experience in running an NFL winning team.

 

 

I don't disagree with hardly any of this. I'm just arguing against the point that a HC's future success is necessarily defined by his past W-L record. Belichick, despite all the qualities you see in him, failed with the Brownies. Levy did good things with the Bills despite failing in KC.

 

If you look at yards/game, Rex has a great track record running defenses. If you look at pts/game, the record is mixed though I think his Ds were twice #1.

 

He is kind of like both Belichick and Levy - both did some good things in their first HC opportunities but not enough to leave with a winning record.

 

Like Belichick (who has Brady), Levy, and most other coaches, Rex wins when he has the right players, and loses when he doesn't.

 

Could the second time be a charm for Rex, like it was for Levy and Belichick? I'm not confident, but I am curious.

Edited February 29, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[Nihilarian]

Were the last 2 games of the season Rex D or Schwartz D ?

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23835/rex-ryans-story-inconsistent-on-late-season-success-of-bills-defense

That so-called "Eureka" moment came against the Dallas Cowboys with that elite stud at QB in Kellen Moore...who was making his first NFL start.

 

Then Brilliantly, the Cowboys OC asked Moore to throw 31 times while running it only 25 times. Also, let's not forget that the score was tired 6-6 at the half and went on to 9-6 Buffalo lead by the end of the third quarter. Then finally in the fourth quarter, the Bills got lucky and were able to score a TD after a 50 yard run by RB Mike Gillislee. The Cowboys were 4-10 at that point so it wasn't some great achievement to beat them.'

 

However, beating the 10-5 NY Jets to knock them out of the playoffs was substantial even if it was against Fitz with Gailey calling the plays. Being a Bills fan we all know first hand that Gailey loved to force Fitz to win games with his arm as he did that so many times as the Bills play caller. 37 passes for Fitz vs only 17 attempts to run the ball from the Jets. Now, Jets RB Chris Ivory had 6 rushing attempts for 81 yards in that game. Ya think it might have been wiser for the Jets to run Ivory rather then ask Fitz to sling it for those 3 INT's? Ya think?

 

That last game against the Jets was another revenge game for Rex Ryan and it did look like he had his team prepared to play for this one. Then he actually asked his front four to rush the passer in the game. Will Ryan have the motivation to get his team to play like this next year?

 

I might have an entirely different outlook for the 2016 Buffalo Bills season if they had been able to beat the Eagles, Redskins. Those final two games against Dallas, Jets were basically meaningless as the Bills were already out of the playoffs for 2015.

 

The reality!

 

"The Buffalo Bills reached an embarrassing low last season on the afternoon of Dec. 20, when Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins shredded Rex Ryan's defense with four touchdown passes and a 153.7 quarterback rating, the third-best mark against the Bills in their history."

[The Big Cat]

That so-called "Eureka" moment came against the Dallas Cowboys with that elite stud at QB in Kellen Moore...who was making his first NFL start.

 

Then Brilliantly, the Cowboys OC asked Moore to throw 31 times while running it only 25 times. Also, let's not forget that the score was tired 6-6 at the half and went on to 9-6 Buffalo lead by the end of the third quarter. Then finally in the fourth quarter, the Bills got lucky and were able to score a TD after a 50 yard run by RB Mike Gillislee. The Cowboys were 4-10 at that point so it wasn't some great achievement to beat them.'

 

However, beating the 10-5 NY Jets to knock them out of the playoffs was substantial even if it was against Fitz with Gailey calling the plays. Being a Bills fan we all know first hand that Gailey loved to force Fitz to win games with his arm as he did that so many times as the Bills play caller. 37 passes for Fitz vs only 17 attempts to run the ball from the Jets. Now, Jets RB Chris Ivory had 6 rushing attempts for 81 yards in that game. Ya think it might have been wiser for the Jets to run Ivory rather then ask Fitz to sling it for those 3 INT's? Ya think?

 

That last game against the Jets was another revenge game for Rex Ryan and it did look like he had his team prepared to play for this one. Then he actually asked his front four to rush the passer in the game. Will Ryan have the motivation to get his team to play like this next year?

 

I might have an entirely different outlook for the 2016 Buffalo Bills season if they had been able to beat the Eagles, Redskins. Those final two games against Dallas, Jets were basically meaningless as the Bills were already out of the playoffs for 2015.

 

The reality!

 

"The Buffalo Bills reached an embarrassing low last season on the afternoon of Dec. 20, when Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins shredded Rex Ryan's defense with four touchdown passes and a 153.7 quarterback rating, the third-best mark against the Bills in their history."

 

Way to misrepresent the game to make your point.

 

Yes, the score was 6-6 at half. And that's an indictment on the defense...because?

 

Mostly, however, the score was 6-6 at half because the offense only had four first-half possessions, with the final one ending on a pick at the goal line.

 

It's also not convenient to your point (I'm not sure why we're disqualifying a good performance from the defense, anyways) to note their was another redzone turnover in the second half as well.

 

This game was close...BECAUSE THE OFFENSE STUNK.

[NoSaint]

Can't argue this.

 

However the defense stunk more so then the offense in 2015.

 

I don't think people are arguing the defense was bad in 2015. It was disappointing coming from where it was in 2014 and coupled with the fact that the offense exceeded expectations made it even more disappointing.

the offense did stink that game.... but i will note that included in the 4 offensive drives stat that he tossed out, that the defense only faced 4 possessions with 3 of the 4 ending in fg attempts by a bad cowboys offense. i dont recall the game in depth with lots of specifics, but it seems worth mention if haggling over the first half. it wasnt all that exciting of a game for anyone. Edited February 29, 2016 by NoSaint

[Nihilarian]

 

 

I don't disagree with hardly any of this. I'm just arguing against the point that a HC's future success is necessarily defined by his past W-L record. Belichick, despite all the qualities you see in him, failed with the Brownies. Levy did good things with the Bills despite failing in KC.

 

If you look at yards/game, Rex has a great track record running defenses. If you look at pts/game, the record is mixed though I think his Ds were twice #1.

 

He is kind of like both Belichick and Levy - both did some good things in their first HC opportunities but not enough to leave with a winning record.

 

Like Belichick (who has Brady), Levy, and most other coaches, Rex wins when he has the right players, and loses when he doesn't.

 

Could the second time be a charm for Rex, like it was for Levy and Belichick? I'm not confident, but I am curious.

The thing is Bill Belichick didn't fail with Cleveland in my view as he inherited a 3-13 bad, bad team and got them to the playoffs by his 4th year. He did go 11-5 in 1994 and then when his QB Vinny Testaverde went down for the season in 1995 (5-11) Plus, the Browns started that 95 season 4-1 when Art Modell told the world he was moving the team to Baltimore and the team fell apart after that. The Browns won only one game after that and Belichick was fired.

 

 

 

 

Sure, Rex Ryan might build a winning team in Buffalo for 2016...

 

I'm just very dubious simply because the man who is a supposed defensive guru literally destroyed a playoff caliber defense and literally castrated the #1 pass rush in the league with a moronic scheme that clearly didn't work from the second game of the season. Then all we fans got were multiple excuses week after week since week two and the excuses are still pouring out of his mouth.

 

I'm just so sick of losing and all we get are more excuses...16 years man, 16 years!

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Nihilarian

[Nihilarian]

the offense did stink that game.... but i will note that included in the 4 offensive drives stat that he tossed out, that the defense only faced 4 possessions with 3 of the 4 ending in fg attempts by a bad cowboys offense. i dont recall the game in depth with lots of specifics, but it seems worth mention if haggling over the first half. it wasnt all that exciting of a game for anyone.

The point was that game was a "Eureka" moment against a scrub QB making his first NFL start. That was the theme for the 2015 Buffalo Bills in that they could beat teams with bad or rookie QB's. Luck went 2-5 in 2015. Brian Hoyer, Fitz 2x, Tallywhacker 2x, Mariota, Moore.

 

They lost to teams with decent QB's and ended up making some look great! Tom Brady 2x 12-4, Eli Manning 6-10, Andy Dalton 10-3, Blake Bortles 5-11, Alex Smith 11-5, Sam Bradford 7-7, Kirk Cousins 9-7.

 

Like ESPN stated, the reality!

 

"The Buffalo Bills reached an embarrassing low last season on the afternoon of Dec. 20, when Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins shredded Rex Ryan's defense with four touchdown passes and a 153.7 quarterback rating, the third-best mark against the Bills in their history."

[The Big Cat]

The point was that game was a "Eureka" moment against a scrub QB making his first NFL start. That was the theme for the 2015 Buffalo Bills in that they could beat teams with bad or rookie QB's. Luck went 2-5 in 2015. Brian Hoyer, Fitz 2x, Tallywhacker 2x, Mariota, Moore.

 

They lost to teams with decent QB's and ended up making some look great! Tom Brady 2x 12-4, Eli Manning 6-10, Andy Dalton 10-3, Blake Bortles 5-11, Alex Smith 11-5, Sam Bradford 7-7, Kirk Cousins 9-7.

 

Like ESPN stated, the reality!

 

"The Buffalo Bills reached an embarrassing low last season on the afternoon of Dec. 20, when Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins shredded Rex Ryan's defense with four touchdown passes and a 153.7 quarterback rating, the third-best mark against the Bills in their history."

 

Why have you identified this game as the "eureka" moment?

Also, are you meaning to suggest the Bills made Eli look great?

 

This is nonsense.

Blake Bortles look great?

He was 13/29 for 182 yards...74 of which came on the game winning drive...

You seem to be distorting reality to get to your point.

[NoSaint]

 

Why have you identified this game as the "eureka" moment?

 

hes pointing to it because rex (and some posters after have used the quote) said that this was the first game that it was 100% a RR scheme (and look how we held them to 6!). Edited February 29, 2016 by NoSaint

[The Big Cat]

hes pointing to it because rex (and some posters after have used the quote) said that this was the first game that it was 100% a RR scheme (and look how we held them to 6!).

 

Got it. Yes. He did say that.

 

And I'm beginning to think fans only believe Rex's comments to the media when the provide some kind of evidence.

 

Otherwise they believe (as I do) that he was (as he is 80% of the time when in front of the media) full of beans.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

By that logic, the Bills should have never hired Marv Levy (31-42 at the time) nor should the Pats have hired Bill Bellichick (36-44 at the time). Both had worse winning pcts than Rex in their first gigs as NFL HCs and few would have said they were destined for greatness.

 

Sometimes HCs learn and get better.

 

Sometimes HCs are in disadvantageous positions with weak rosters.

 

Personally, I see enough bright spots - and enough blemishes - in Rex's record that I can't feel very optimistic nor suicidally pessimistic. At this point, I'm solidly in the wait-and-see camp.

 

Fair cop, and good points. Hondo. I would never dispute that sometimes people learn and get better. In fact I'm often...Hopeful...that they will.

 

But getting better usually starts with a steely-eyed (and sometimes steely toed) assessment of where you are right now. Rex's W-L record is where he is right now, and I dredged it up in response to folks who want to credit his (or make excuses for his) past performance. Right now, he's a losing HC. That's a Fact.

 

Might he learn, and improve? Sure! In fact I hope so, since like it or don't he's the Bills HC next year and we, as Bills fans, presumably want to see them succeed!

 

But that has to start with a fair recognition of where he is now, and at least publically, I'm hearing a lot of sarcastic bluster about how he can't coach defense, which is not reassuring.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Hopeful

[Bill from NYC]

The Jets before and after. You mean the Jets before and after Rex? Or the Jets before and after they signed a QB/WR duo that broke numerous franchise records? Or were you talking about the Jets before and after they brought back any semblance of talent in their defensive secondary? Or is the Jets before and after Geno Smith got his jaw broke?

Sure. Every team Fitz goes to does nothing but win, right? Wow!

 

Would you please refresh my memory?

Did you choose your screen name because you were just so moved after JP Losman called some young kid "Big Cat" during some sort of function? As I recall, you were a big proponent of his, telling us over and over how great he was just like you do now with Rex.

 

If not, please accept my apology.

 

If so, it's ok. I thought Rob Johnson would be an excellent quarterback. Everyone who is willing to stick their neck makes wrong predictions. Good luck with your Pro-Rex crusade.

[The Big Cat]

Sure. Every team Fitz goes to does nothing but win, right? Wow!

 

Would you please refresh my memory?

Did you choose your screen name because you were just so moved after JP Losman called some young kid "Big Cat" during some sort of function? As I recall, you were a big proponent of his, telling us over and over how great he was just like you do now with Rex.

 

If not, please accept my apology.

 

If so, it's ok. I thought Rob Johnson would be an excellent quarterback. Everyone who is willing to stick their neck makes wrong predictions. Good luck with your Pro-Rex crusade.

 

Apology accepted.

[Tenhigh]

 

...the man who is a supposed defensive guru ... literally castrated the #1 pass rush in the league ...

 

 

 

I know Rex is into wacky stuff, but I've never once heard that he is into this.....

[The Big Cat]

 

I know Rex is into wacky stuff, but I've never once heard that he is into this.....

 

It happened. Literally.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

And I'm beginning to think fans only believe Rex's comments to the media when the provide some kind of evidence.

 

Otherwise they believe (as I do) that he was (as he is 80% of the time when in front of the media) full of beans.

 

This is not me trying to point score by the way... I accept this is total conjecture on my part and I might be miles off.... but I think sometimes part of the Rex issue is he loses a bit of a grasp on what is a line to the media and what is the reality. Once he says it and the media buys it he starts to believe it to be true. I sometimes think that he talks himself into believing he has a solution. I watch every press conference the Head Coach does throughout the season and camp and all year. Rex contradicts himself constantly because he appears to move with the narrative - he is an emotional guy and I think it gets in the way a bit.

 

Listening to Marrone was boring as hell and often awkward but I got the impression that the Doug Marrone we got was the Doug Marrone the players got and as someone who has led a sports team as a Head Coach at semi-pro level I kind of think that consistency of message is important for the psyche of your team.

 

As I say - pure conjecture might be totally wrong. Just an observation.

[The Big Cat]

 

This is not me trying to point score by the way... I accept this is total conjecture on my part and I might be miles off.... but I think sometimes part of the Rex issue is he loses a bit of a grasp on what is a line to the media and what is the reality. Once he says it and the media buys it he starts to believe it to be true. I sometimes think that he talks himself into believing he has a solution. I watch every press conference the Head Coach does throughout the season and camp and all year. Rex contradicts himself constantly because he appears to move with the narrative - he is an emotional guy and I think it gets in the way a bit.

 

Listening to Marrone was boring as hell and often awkward but I got the impression that the Doug Marrone we got was the Doug Marrone the players got and as someone who has led a sports team as a Head Coach at semi-pro level I kind of think that consistency of message is important for the psyche of your team.

 

As I say - pure conjecture might be totally wrong. Just an observation.

 

I think there are shades of truth to much of what you've said.

 

My trepidations about Rex have always centered around what I perceive as being a lack of consistency. He certainly does not come off as a no-stone-unturned type of coach like Bellicheat (who, granted, is one of a kind) and his teams (we saw it from the Jets and we definitely saw it last year) sometimes come out swinging and other times come out flatter than piss on a platter.

 

Marrone thought he was instilling some kind of Bellicheatian steadiness/consistency, and I believe, to an extent, he was. But he was also kind of a prick:

 

[GunnerBill]

Oh Marrone was an ass and there were issues with his team - it was far from perfect... but I felt we were heading in the right direction. Maybe I was desperate to be positive - I am not generally a "hater" - I don't know.

 

I admit to not liking the Rex hire the moment it was announced but I gave him the benefit until Wembley. Too often I saw a team ill prepared to play. I think he needs greater consistency and focus to succeed.