Schwartz's D

[JohnC]

Wonder if spikes lands there

The link from the first poster describes what the Schwartz hire will do for the Eagles. defense. The below link from the Buffalo News describes what the Schwartz departure and the Rex arrival did for our defense last year.

 

Pegula made a horrible mistake when he hired Rex. Rex took a defense that was structured for the talent on hand and Rex changed it to a defense that didn't suit the players on hand. The results were disasterous.

 

With the hiring of his brother Rex is even more invested in his defensive philosophy. There is an incompatibility between the talent and scheme that can't be turned around in one year. I see trouble. It didn't need to turn out this way. Hiring a defensive minded HC when your defense is already well established was not a smart approach to take. Hue Jackson would have been a smarter coaching selection last year.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The link from the first poster describes what the Schwartz hire will do for the Eagles. defense. The below link from the Buffalo News describes what the Schwartz departure and the Rex arrival did for our defense last year.

 

Pegula made a horrible mistake when he hired Rex. Rex took a defense that was structured for the talent on hand and Rex changed it to a defense that didn't suit the players on hand. The results were disasterous.

 

With the hiring of his brother Rex is even more invested in his defensive philosophy. There is an incompatibility between the talent and scheme that can't be turned around in one year. I see trouble. It didn't need to turn out this way. Hiring a defensive minded HC when your defense is already well established was not a smart approach to take. Hue Jackson would have been a smarter coaching selection last year.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

 

This, but further - the Carucci piece you link implies that at best, there was a lack of communication between the Bills FO (saying Schwartz would stay) and the coaches, rising to the level of managerial "malpractice". No manager worth his salt moves a new hire into the previous position holder's office without communicating his intent, mano a mano, to the previous guy. That simply does not create an atmosphere of accountability and success in the office. This begs speculation as to why Rex would behave that way and why the FO would be stoutly insisting "we want Schwartz to stay" whilst Thurman is moving into his office - did Rex mislead the FO and the Pegulas as to his intentions there? Something like saying "I'll retain previous assistants based upon a careful review of their work, and Schwartz work with the D certainly speaks for itself last year" could be heard as committing to keeping Schwartz while actually committing to nothing at all.

 

That's BS, that's tool behavior not the work of the up-front guy and good manager Rex "bills" himself as.

 

My concern goes even a step further. I would suggest that in this era of salary caps and FA, successful coaches MUST adjust their scheme to the talents of the players the team is able to sign. And the article (and your points above) suggest that Rex is completely unable to do this.

 

Wade Phillips comments "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of." seem germaine here.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Hopeful

[JohnC]

 

This, but further - the Carucci piece you link implies that at best, there was a lack of communication between the Bills FO (saying Schwartz would stay) and the coaches, rising to the level of managerial "malpractice". No manager worth his salt moves a new hire into the previous position holder's office without communicating his intent, mano a mano, to the previous guy. That simply does not create an atmosphere of accountability and success in the office. This begs speculation as to why Rex would behave that way and why the FO would be stoutly insisting "we want Schwartz to stay" whilst Thurman is moving into his office - did Rex mislead the FO and the Pegulas as to his intentions there? Something like saying "I'll retain previous assistants based upon a careful review of their work, and Schwartz work with the D certainly speaks for itself last year" could be heard as committing to keeping Schwartz while actually committing to nothing at all.

 

That's BS, that's tool behavior not the work of the up-front guy and good manager Rex "bills" himself as.

 

My concern goes even a step further. I would suggest that in this era of salary caps and FA, successful coaches MUST adjust their scheme to the talents of the players the team is able to sign. And the article (and your points above) suggest that Rex is completely unable to do this.

 

Wade Phillips comments "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of." seem germaine here.

My view regarding Rex from the beginning is that he is a huckster whose self-promoting skills hide his limited talents.

 

Rex is the type of person who can shine in a job interview setting. He can adeptly frame his responses to appeal to what the interviewers want to hear. He's a a good salesman who isn't a good HC.

 

The owner/s and the organization did not do their due diligence in this case. Rex had a losing record in NY. Rex was fired from a team that won 4 games. The Jets won 10 games post Rex with their more subdued and mature new HC and the Bills took a precipitous fall on defense with their new defensive-minded HC. The before and after effects with Rex's teams are stark.

 

Rex is Rex. The Rex we hired is the Rex who performed for us. The failure in this case isn't a Rex failure because we got exactly what he had to offer. The failure was due to the organization' and the owner/s' bad decision to hire him. It went beyond being a bad decision, it was a peculiar decision. In this case those who allowed themselves to be bamboozled are to be blamed. The hustler does what he naturally does. The organization and owners bought what he had to sell. They got what they deserved.The cycle of futility continues on. And that is why it is so infuriating!.

Edited February 14, 2016 by JohnC

[GunnerBill]

My view regarding Rex from the beginning is that he is a huckster whose self-promoting skills hide his limited talents.

 

Rex is the type of person who can shine in a job interview setting. He can adeptly frame his responses to appeal to what the interviewers want to here. He's a a good salesman who isn't a good HC.

 

The owner/s and the organization did not do their due diligence in this case. Rex had a losing record in NY. Rex was fired from a team that won 4 games. The Jets won 10 games post Rex with their more subdued and mature new HC and the Bills took a precipitous fall on defense with their new defensive-minded HC. The before and after effects with Rex's teams are stark.

 

Rex is Rex. The Rex we hired is the Rex who performed for us. The failure in this case isn't a Rex failure because we got exactly what he had to offer. The failure was due to the organization' and the owner/s' bad decision to hire him. It went beyond being a bad decision, it was a peculiar decision. In this case those who allowed themselves to be bamboozled are to be blamed. The hustler does what he naturally does. The organization and owners bought what he had to sell. They got what they deserved.The cycle of futility continues on. And that is why it is so infuriating!.

 

Yep and nobody can accuse me of being wise after the event. I did not like the hire from the moment I heard about it. No other hire in my time as a fan, not Mularkey, not Jauron, not Gailey and not Marrone gave me that sudden "this is the wrong decision" gut reaction that Rex's hiring did.

[JohnC]

 

Yep and nobody can accuse me of being wise after the event. I did not like the hire from the moment I heard about it. No other hire in my time as a fan, not Mularkey, not Jauron, not Gailey and not Marrone gave me that sudden "this is the wrong decision" gut reaction that Rex's hiring did.

When you go back and review the hiring of Levy/Brandon/Nix as GMs and people involved with the football operation you realize that this franchise had no chance to compete with franchises that were well run such as New England, Pitts. Giants and Green Bay. The issue of managing this franchise went beyond stability and finances but to the question of competency level.

 

For me I thought the elevation of Whaley to the GM position was a turning point for our organization entering the modern world of the NFL. I would be intrigued to know how much he was involved in the hiring of Rex? He had to be mortified and angered when he saw what was happening with the defense, especially after he dedicated the offseason to bolstering the offense.

 

What I find to be very frustrating is that I deeply feel that this organization has little chance to be successful under Rex. There might be some success but but it is unlikely that there will be sustaining success under this loud HC. Now we have to wait for this cycle of incompetence to run its course until the next cycle takes its turn. That makes me sad.

[8-8 Forever?]

It will be interesting to see if Philly's horses can play at the levels ours did back in 2014. My guess it that it will be a mixed bag of a year for them, leading to hundreds of pages of concurrent I told you so's and Rex sucks comments being flung left and right on here.

 

Can't wait.

yeah, can't wait.

[JohnC]

What are you talking about?

 

The defense sucked because Mario quit. Not Rex....

I'm harsh on my view of Rex. I am also harsh on my view of Mario. I believe he quit on this team. A reasonable debate can be made as to the extent. But for me his conduct was inexcusable and unacceptable. Rex should have taken him off the field but he didn't. That is another indictment on the tough talking HC's coaching ability. It demonstrated a lack of control on his part.

[hondo in seattle]

I posted this on the Carucci/Rex thread but it fits here too...

 

Clearly Rex effed up last year. But before we go too far down the Schwartz-is-a-genius-and-Rex-is-a-buffoon road with Vic, let's think about a few facts...

One year doesn't define a coach. In 2006, when Schwartz was the DC of Tennesee, his defense was ranked #32. The same year, Rex's Baltimore D was ranked #1. I guess in that season, Rex was the genius and Schwartz the buffoon. So why did we hire Schwartz in 2014?

Both Rex and Schwartz had the opportunity to run defenses as both HC and DC. Rex has the far better record.

Schwartz's best year was his last year with the Bills. Rex's worst year was last year with the Bills.

In 8 years with Tenn, 5 years with the Lions, and one year here, Schwartz's defenses earned an average rank of #18. About every other season, he finishes in the bottom half of the league.

In 4 years as DC of Baltimore, 6 years with the Jests and 1 with us, Rex's defenses averaged #6. Almost every season, he's in the top 10.

When both were HC/DC in the NFL at the same time, Rex led the better defense 8 of 10 seasons.

It'll be interesting to see if Schwartz can recapture his Buffalo magic in Philly. His overall resume suggests maybe not.

Edited February 14, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[YoloinOhio]

I posted this on the Carucci/Rex thread but it fits here too...

Clearly Rex effed up last year. But before we go too far down the Schwartz-is-a-genius-and-Rex-is-a-buffoon road with Vic, let's think about a few facts...

One year doesn't define a coach. In 2006, when Schwartz was the DC of Tennesee, his defense was ranked #32. The same year, Rex's Baltimore D was ranked #1. I guess in that season, Rex was the genius and Schwartz the buffoon. So why did we hire Schwartz in 2014?

Both Rex and Schwartz had the opportunity to run defenses as both HC and DC. Rex has the far better record.

Schwartz's best year was his last year with the Bills. Rex's worst year was last year with the Bills.

In 8 years with Tenn, 5 years with the Lions, and one year here, Schwartz's defenses earned an average rank of #18. About every other season, he finishes in the bottom half of the league.

In 4 years as DC of Baltimore, 6 years with the Jests and 1 with us, Rex's defenses averaged #6. Almost every season, he's in the top 10.

When both were HC/DC in the NFL at the same time, Rex led the better defense 8 of 10 seasons.

It'll be interesting to see if Schwartz can recapture his Buffalo magic in Philly. His overall resume suggests maybe not.

thats really interesting. I knew Schwartz's defenses weren't ranked very high because so many harped on that when he was hired here, complaining he would never be better than Pettine. The comparisons with Rex are eye opening. I liked but didn't love Shwartz's D when he was here. It was a stat monster but didn't hold up when we needed them to in big games. Edited February 14, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Schwarz' scheme fit the front 7 like a glove and the front 4 even more so. But it's hard to proclaim him genius. He imported a scheme that fit the roster like a glove. It could have been luck, coincidence, serendipity, good hiring based on talent evaluation or something else. The story will be told as tine goes on if Schwarz adapts to the roster any better than anyone else.

 

The one undeniable fact though is the fit between his scheme and the 2014 roster were one of the better fits in bilz history. The Rex scheme with the 2015 roster.... No so much

[vincec]

I posted this on the Carucci/Rex thread but it fits here too...

 

Clearly Rex effed up last year. But before we go too far down the Schwartz-is-a-genius-and-Rex-is-a-buffoon road with Vic, let's think about a few facts...

One year doesn't define a coach. In 2006, when Schwartz was the DC of Tennesee, his defense was ranked #32. The same year, Rex's Baltimore D was ranked #1. I guess in that season, Rex was the genius and Schwartz the buffoon. So why did we hire Schwartz in 2014?

Both Rex and Schwartz had the opportunity to run defenses as both HC and DC. Rex has the far better record.

Schwartz's best year was his last year with the Bills. Rex's worst year was last year with the Bills.

In 8 years with Tenn, 5 years with the Lions, and one year here, Schwartz's defenses earned an average rank of #18. About every other season, he finishes in the bottom half of the league.

In 4 years as DC of Baltimore, 6 years with the Jests and 1 with us, Rex's defenses averaged #6. Almost every season, he's in the top 10.

When both were HC/DC in the NFL at the same time, Rex led the better defense 8 of 10 seasons.

It'll be interesting to see if Schwartz can recapture his Buffalo magic in Philly. His overall resume suggests maybe not.

I agree with all of this. It's about "fit". Schwarz's scheme was a perfect fit given the players he had in Buffalo and Rex's was terrible. Rex was successful in NY and Baltimore when he had time to acquire and mold the players for his scheme. That may be the case here as well but it will take 2 or 3 years.

[GunnerBill]

I agree with all of this. It's about "fit". Schwarz's scheme was a perfect fit given the players he had in Buffalo and Rex's was terrible. Rex was successful in NY and Baltimore when he had time to acquire and mold the players for his scheme. That may be the case here as well but it will take 2 or 3 years.

It is about fits. My gut told me Rex wasn't a fit here the moment he was hired. Whereas I knew Schwartz's scheme was a fit for our talent.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Does Mario get released even if he had 15 sacks?

 

doubt it, probably a restructure.

[YoloinOhio]

 

doubt it, probably a restructure.

the way that his contract was structured, a simple restructure offers no cap relief. He would have had to agree to sign an extension with the purpose of lowering the cap number.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Are you one of those Mets and Yankees fans too?

 

if one is from NY never saw the big deal in liking both teams

the way that his contract was structured, a simple restructure offers no cap relief. He would have had to agree to sign an extension with the purpose of lowering the cap number.

 

I wasn't being that technical just that he would be here with a different deal.

This will help Phili out but they need some help. Spikes and Mario to Phili would be huge.

Spikes besides Alonso at jack. Both being riole players and situations 34 mlbs...amazing potential

 

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[3rdand12]

I'm harsh on my view of Rex. I am also harsh on my view of Mario. I believe he quit on this team. A reasonable debate can be made as to the extent. But for me his conduct was inexcusable and unacceptable. Rex should have taken him off the field but he didn't. That is another indictment on the tough talking HC's coaching ability. It demonstrated a lack of control on his part.

This is an excellent point

[T master]

 

Does Mario get released even if he had 15 sacks?

 

Not nearly as easily because he would have been a team player & done what he was getting paid millions to do instead of whining about it !!