Green Lightning Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Last year when we I raised the salary cap spectre I was shouted down and was told the cap meant nothing. Well it does - not the end of the world - but it needs to be managed and we over did it imo last year, especially Shady's deal.
Deranged Rhino Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Last year when we I raised the salary cap spectre I was shouted down and was told the cap meant nothing. Well it does - not the end of the world - but it needs to be managed and we over did it imo last year, especially Shady's deal. If they did "over did it" last year then they wouldn't be in manageable cap shape. But they are. So evidence says your conclusion is probably faulty.
Billsguy Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/ We have the 2nd worst cap situation in the league, 2nd only to the Dolphins. As free agency looms on the horizon all the hope of bringing in the help we need seems a lot more like wishful thinking than reality. If we cut Mario it frees up over $12,000,000 pre-June 1st and $14,500,000 post-June 1st. That still doesn't leave us much room to work with considering we will still have to sign a draft class from that. Cut McFunbles and that frees up almost another $4,000,000. This still may not be enough to do what we need to do as we also need to re-sign Glenn and Incognito then possibly Bradham. People don't really seem fond of the idea, but Kyle Williams might end up being a cap casualty at some point because that would free up another $5,000,000 pre-June 1st or $6,500,000 post-June 1st. Until I actually looked today I had no idea our cap situation was as bad as it is at the moment. If we could get a long term deal done with Gilmore it may bring down his cap number, but I remember reading somewhere that he's going to try to "cash in" so maybe it will not. Then we have to look towards 2017 where Gilmore (if not extended this year) and Tyrod Taylor will be needing contracts. I hope Whaley and the guys in the FO can get this taken care of, but it doesn't look too good right now for what we are trying to build. Kudos to Doug Whaley. He puts the Bills in cap hell and they still don't make the playoffs. The best of both worlds Doug!
Deranged Rhino Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Kudos to Doug Whaley. He puts the Bills in cap hell and they still don't make the playoffs. The best of both worlds Doug! The Bills are not in cap hell, despite the hype. Even a little bit of study into the situation will make this quite clear.
Manther Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 The Bills are not in cap hell, despite the hype. Even a little bit of study into the situation will make this quite clear. I agree. I think the dictator of where we will be moving forward and how good the Bills are with the cap will be... If we can get through the offseason withOUT restructuring Clay. By not doing it this offseason and instead next off season I believe is $3 a year for the rest of his deal. If we scoot through this year without doing it will free up flexibility moving forward and having a buffer for ideally resigning TT if he earns that deal after this season...which would be ideal. The longer we go without restructuring Clay the better. It's one of our safety nets.
KD in CA Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 The Bills are not in cap hell, despite the hype. Even a little bit of study into the situation will make this quite clear. Apparently not going on a huge FA spending spree every offseason = salary cap hell. I guess people forget the guys they signed last year (Clay, McCoy, Hughes, Incognito, etc) are all still on the team.
Manther Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Apparently not going on a huge FA spending spree every offseason = salary cap hell. I guess people forget the guys they signed last year (Clay, McCoy, Hughes, Incognito, etc) are all still on the team. Agreed
QCity Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Apparently not going on a huge FA spending spree every offseason = salary cap hell. No, my point was they should have never went on that FA spending spree in the first place. I guess people forget the guys they signed last year (Clay, McCoy, Hughes, Incognito, etc) are all still on the team. I guess people forget the team was 8-8 last year (against a cupcake schedule). If you were talking about retaining a Superbowl caliber roster, it would be a decent strategy.
Big Turk Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 That much? Really? Roster bonus $10 mil, spread that out over 4 years left as a signing bonus, 2.5 mil per, saving 7.5 this year
BarleyNY Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 That much? Really? Yes, it will add $7.5M in space for 2016. It's simply changing Clay's guaranteed $10M roster bonus to a signing bonus. Instead of taking the entire hit in 2016, it'll get spread out as $2.5M hits over four years (including 2016).
BarleyNY Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Apparently not going on a huge FA spending spree every offseason = salary cap hell. I guess people forget the guys they signed last year (Clay, McCoy, Hughes, Incognito, etc) are all still on the team. I'd like to clarify something here. I would rarely (almost never) want to see big free agent spending spree. I prefer to build through the draft and reasonably priced free agents to fill in the holes. What I'd refer to as salary cap hell is when a team's salary cap situation causes a huge purge of (decrease in) talent. That's why I've been referring to their situation as "salary cap heck". It won't be a huge purge of talent like New Orleans, but I see a decrease in overall talent even with a draft. The people they signed last year got them to an 8-8 record. I don't exactly see a big improvement in that record if they can't improve the talent on the team. The only other avenue for improvement is improved utilization of talent or improved health. I don't see a huge help from either and I'm not one to sit and hope they'll just get lucky.
NoSaint Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 I'd like to clarify something here. I would rarely (almost never) want to see big free agent spending spree. I prefer to build through the draft and reasonably priced free agents to fill in the holes. What I'd refer to as salary cap hell is when a team's salary cap situation causes a huge purge of (decrease in) talent. That's why I've been referring to their situation as "salary cap heck". It won't be a huge purge of talent like New Orleans, but I see a decrease in overall talent even with a draft. The people they signed last year got them to an 8-8 record. I don't exactly see a big improvement in that record if they can't improve the talent on the team. The only other avenue for improvement is improved utilization of talent or improved health. I don't see a huge help from either and I'm not one to sit and hope they'll just get lucky. I'll say I think that roster underperformed in part due to lackluster coaching - if you put a top notch head coach and a DC more in line with our talent that roster, even with injuries, could've won a couple more games. As is, I don't know what to expect. Axing a talent like Mario, trying to push the chips all in on a scheme we may not fit and having the same game management from the HC.... I feel like we could add talent and not push that much further than 8-8.
CardinalScotts Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 6 - 10 regime change rinse , repeat not this year
Jason423 Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I think what you saw last season is somewhat typical of what you get with a name head coach hire combined with new ownership being on the way. It was a very Rex offseason where he pushes how confident he is in certain players to the point where it clouds judgement. Prior to last year the only really bad contracts that the Bills had done were the Ryan Fitzpatrick one, which was just over-excitement from a few games, and the Mario Williams one which was meant to impact the team beyond the field. Last year Im not sure anyone in the league would have come close to their deals for McCoy and Clay. The real killer was the Dareus deal which was just a massive concession to a player who decided he was unhappy with the lack of an extension. The reason the Dareus deal is the real killer is because the team has two possible grade A talents on the roster in Gilmore, who is going to try to get a new deal this year, and Watkins, who is still at least a year or two away. But when you do a deal like Dareus' it sets a stage to where you are going to do bad deals for the other two players. At least with Williams there was the argument that as a UFA things are different but they dont really have that in their back pocket anymore. Id imagine that this is even a hang up with the Glenn deal especially after the Eagles just did that monster deal for Lane Johnson. If Taylor improves this year you also need to allocate big on the QB position one yer out. I don’t think the problem for the Bills last year was talent for the most part. The problem was that it’s difficult to fit in so many new veteran players in a given year especially with a new system the whole team is learning. I think they would be better off just accepting that there will be natural improvement and they can supplement what they have with the draft rather than free agency. If they are letting Rex run the show they probably are in danger of becoming something like the Saints with the huge signing bonuses and constant contract restructures. I think their best move is to not touch that Clay contract for cap relief but I don’t expect them to do that. My guess is they see the $8M or so in cap that this will open as more beneficial than looking at having more flexibility in the future. They can get to $20-$25M in cap room this year pretty easily and Id imagine Rex looks at that as enough to get another top guard, a 2nd tier wide receiver and a 2nd tier corner. This is really an important offseason for them. If they run their cap down to the ground by being active in free agency then its almost inevitable that this is going to be a year by year tight rope routine. Eventually those teams usually break. Whether it’s the Cowboys, Saints, Raiders, Jets or anyone else you end up at a big disadvantage compared to other teams because of that roster purge that is destined to happen. If they come out of this with basically the same team and the extensions are not so up front cash/bonus heavy then they should be fine in the future and able to run that good balance between the draft and free agency.
BarleyNY Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I'll say I think that roster underperformed in part due to lackluster coaching - if you put a top notch head coach and a DC more in line with our talent that roster, even with injuries, could've won a couple more games. As is, I don't know what to expect. Axing a talent like Mario, trying to push the chips all in on a scheme we may not fit and having the same game management from the HC.... I feel like we could add talent and not push that much further than 8-8. I totally agree. My worry is that Mario is only the first domino to fall and that we will see a big turnover in the front seven. There is a lot of talent in that group as well as a lot of money invested in them. It'd be a shame to see them wasted and dismantled because the coaches only know how to run a passive, 2 gap defense.
Dragonborn10 Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Jason 423. Dareus is a Grade AAA talent. Watkins is under contract for three more years. Gilmore is very very good and can be a training camp extension or franchise player next year. Mario, Leodis, Carpenter, and Kyle are the cap/talent casualties. Hopefully Kyle takes a pay cut and stays. Like others have said, rework the Clay deal and they have room for Incognito, Glenn, and a FA linebacker. If Glenn walks then they can get two LB's and a DE and then draft two OT in the first three rounds.
Steve Billieve Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 No, my point was they should have never went on that FA spending spree in the first place. I guess people forget the team was 8-8 last year (against a cupcake schedule). If you were talking about retaining a Superbowl caliber roster, it would be a decent strategy. So what's your solution through back all the productive players we signed last off season. You make it out like we bought a bunch of junk we didn't want and now we don't have any money for what we do want. Finishing with a less than desirable record doesn't make every decision wrong.
Big Turk Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I think what you saw last season is somewhat typical of what you get with a name head coach hire combined with new ownership being on the way. It was a very Rex offseason where he pushes how confident he is in certain players to the point where it clouds judgement. Prior to last year the only really bad contracts that the Bills had done were the Ryan Fitzpatrick one, which was just over-excitement from a few games, and the Mario Williams one which was meant to impact the team beyond the field. Last year Im not sure anyone in the league would have come close to their deals for McCoy and Clay. The real killer was the Dareus deal which was just a massive concession to a player who decided he was unhappy with the lack of an extension. The reason the Dareus deal is the real killer is because the team has two possible grade A talents on the roster in Gilmore, who is going to try to get a new deal this year, and Watkins, who is still at least a year or two away. But when you do a deal like Dareus' it sets a stage to where you are going to do bad deals for the other two players. At least with Williams there was the argument that as a UFA things are different but they dont really have that in their back pocket anymore. Id imagine that this is even a hang up with the Glenn deal especially after the Eagles just did that monster deal for Lane Johnson. If Taylor improves this year you also need to allocate big on the QB position one yer out. I don’t think the problem for the Bills last year was talent for the most part. The problem was that it’s difficult to fit in so many new veteran players in a given year especially with a new system the whole team is learning. I think they would be better off just accepting that there will be natural improvement and they can supplement what they have with the draft rather than free agency. If they are letting Rex run the show they probably are in danger of becoming something like the Saints with the huge signing bonuses and constant contract restructures. I think their best move is to not touch that Clay contract for cap relief but I don’t expect them to do that. My guess is they see the $8M or so in cap that this will open as more beneficial than looking at having more flexibility in the future. They can get to $20-$25M in cap room this year pretty easily and Id imagine Rex looks at that as enough to get another top guard, a 2nd tier wide receiver and a 2nd tier corner. This is really an important offseason for them. If they run their cap down to the ground by being active in free agency then its almost inevitable that this is going to be a year by year tight rope routine. Eventually those teams usually break. Whether it’s the Cowboys, Saints, Raiders, Jets or anyone else you end up at a big disadvantage compared to other teams because of that roster purge that is destined to happen. If they come out of this with basically the same team and the extensions are not so up front cash/bonus heavy then they should be fine in the future and able to run that good balance between the draft and free agency. How was Dareus a bad deal? He got near Gerald McCoy money and less than Suh, the two most comparable players. You want to keep star players you have to pay market rate for them regardless of if you believe it's "too much". Unless you simply want us to be like the teams in the 2000's and let our players walk as FA's repeatedly and keep starting over...
KD in CA Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 No, my point was they should have never went on that FA spending spree in the first place. I guess people forget the team was 8-8 last year (against a cupcake schedule). If you were talking about retaining a Superbowl caliber roster, it would be a decent strategy. Why? What good would it have done to have a truck load of unspent money last year? They resigned the two young guys on the DL and they needed a RB and a TE and got them. What else would they have done at those positions? The guys they signed last year are Super Bowl caliber. But the QB is not, the linebackers are not, the WRs are not (other than SW). So that's why they weren't Super Bowl contenders. There were lots of reasons they were 8-8 and as we should know by now, the difference between 8-8 and 10-6 and a playoff spot is very small.
aristocrat Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 New Orleans is in cap hell, the Bills are in cap heck. It's manageable, but the current situation will make it difficult to stay even or improve in terms of overall talent. Kyle coming back to form is as good as a free agent signing(as darcy regier would say). If Whaley can get a roy candidate on defense again we're ok.
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