John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 For a guy that banters about "fluidity" and "flexibility" you never mention the consequences or trade-offs. NOT ONCE! For someone that thinks they understand the cap doesn't actually realize and understand the real world ramifications on the football club - present and future. Its not true... but Tell us why you think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Its not true... but Tell us why you think it is? Read my previous post just before yours. That is one example of the ramifications with the Clay ordeal. Edited February 16, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 No, it will just delay adding to your cap when you have more important signings next year with a pending franchise QB contract and your #1 CB contract. Also for a player like Clay who has health and longevity concerns with his knees, there is major risk in restructuring to a guaranteed signing bonus leaving open millions of potential dead money on the table in future years. There is no free lunch. I apologize I made my post and saw this which sorta is what I was asking you to do. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the bills might not sign Gilmore? and I am not saying that is going to happen and I think the bills can still afford him.....but lets face it.....Ronald Darby was the BEST corner we had on this team and that was as a rookie.....I am wondering if ANYONE expected him to be as good as he was as a 2nd round mid round pick. I totally disagree on Clay.....the reasons why he was a great for the bills - He is a great scheme fit....does everything we want and - He is just coming into his prime years as a player Im not really concerned about the knees....so Im not really concerned about paying the man in a way that will keep him around for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) I apologize I made my post and saw this which sorta is what I was asking you to do. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the bills might not sign Gilmore? and I am not saying that is going to happen and I think the bills can still afford him.....but lets face it.....Ronald Darby was the BEST corner we had on this team and that was as a rookie.....I am wondering if ANYONE expected him to be as good as he was as a 2nd round mid round pick. I totally disagree on Clay.....the reasons why he was a great for the bills - He is a great scheme fit....does everything we want and - He is just coming into his prime years as a player Im not really concerned about the knees....so Im not really concerned about paying the man in a way that will keep him around for a while. You must not of read my posts on Darby when they drafted him. It is what I expected. Remember I had to defend Whaley when 95% of the board was going nuts. Edited February 16, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) No, it will just delay adding to your cap when you have more important signings next year and after with a pending franchise QB contract and your #1 pending CB contract. The best course of action is to just take the hit right now and get it done with. Also, for a player like Clay who has health and longevity concerns (Miami's doctors for one) with his knees, there is major risk in restructuring to a guaranteed signing bonus leaving open millions of potential dead money on the table in future years. There is no free lunch.It seems like you don't understand how the cap works - or you're already thinking about parting ways with Clay. The Clay contract was stupid, but eating the whole $10M roster bonus this offseason is point.ess unless you're looking at cutting him in the very near future. The Bills can take the full $10M hit this season or take $2.5M this season and defer $7.5M to future years when the hits would be a smaller percentage of the total cap. They can also roll that $7.5M in space they saved forward, which is exactly the same as if they don't defer it. Edited February 16, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 You must not of read my posts on Darby when they drafted him. It is what I expected. Remember I had to defend Whaley when 95% of the board was going nuts. I had a initial jerk reaction because I wanted the OT Jake Fisher (who still ended up being a great pick) and I didnt know much about Ronald Darby.....I did understand the position because word is it takes good corners to make RRs defenses work. However....I dont think ANYONE thought he was gonna be in the running for rookie D player of the year......the kid is a bonafide number 1 corner. I also didnt think they Tyrod Taylor was going to play as well as HE did So.....basically the whole situation is in flux.....there is a chance that while we sign Cog and Glenn.....that Gilmore prices himself right out our range.....that we end up signing a vet corner or draft a corner high next year.....all those things are in play. but we cant worry about tomorrow when we are trying to be competative today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I can't get all worked up about the salary cap. Teams find a way to sign the guys they want/want to keep. I don't get the concept of not spending last year so they can spend more on FA this year either. Why wait when they want to improve ASAP, and the FA class this year is weak. Their plan to sign their own guys they want to keep and hit the draft makes sense to me. I do think they will add some bargain FAs. Agree on all points Wrong. The smart move is to just take the hit this year. Agreed. If possible. But, should work out. I apologize I made my post and saw this which sorta is what I was asking you to do. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the bills might not sign Gilmore? and I am not saying that is going to happen and I think the bills can still afford him.....but lets face it.....Ronald Darby was the BEST corner we had on this team and that was as a rookie.....I am wondering if ANYONE expected him to be as good as he was as a 2nd round mid round pick. I totally disagree on Clay.....the reasons why he was a great for the bills - He is a great scheme fit....does everything we want and - He is just coming into his prime years as a player Im not really concerned about the knees....so Im not really concerned about paying the man in a way that will keep him around for a while. Rex and the Bills nee two CBs. Gilmore is staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Agree on all points Agreed. If possible. But, should work out. Rex and the Bills nee two CBs. Gilmore is staying. You might be right about Gilmore staying.....or Gilmore might price himself to high and we draft a corner in the 1st round next year. You see.....we now have the luxury of knowing that we have a number 1 corner in Darby. Would I like both of them to stay? Without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 I say the cap doesn't look good right now because we have obvious needs and people that need to be re-signed who are going to cost a quite a bit. Maybe it is as simple as dumping Mario, McFumbles, Dixon, Urbik, and restructuring a guy or two. I was hoping we could address the right side of the OL in FA. They may think Miller is going to take a good second year leap, but we can all agree that better depth is needed for sure. We only have 6 picks so the draft needs to work out for us as well. Imo we need two LB's, a starting quality RT + OG, a replacement for Mario, depth on the OL, a true NT so we can kick Dareus out to the 5 Tech, Safety depth, a true #2 WR, and further depth along the defense. That's a lot without much $ to work with and only 6 draft picks. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I say the cap doesn't look good right now because we have obvious needs and people that need to be re-signed who are going to cost a quite a bit. Maybe it is as simple as dumping Mario, McFumbles, Dixon, Urbik, and restructuring a guy or two. I was hoping we could address the right side of the OL in FA. They may think Miller is going to take a good second year leap, but we can all agree that better depth is needed for sure. We only have 6 picks so the draft needs to work out for us as well. Imo we need two LB's, a starting quality RT + OG, a replacement for Mario, depth on the OL, a true NT so we can kick Dareus out to the 5 Tech, Safety depth, a true #2 WR, and further depth along the defense. That's a lot without much $ to work with and only 6 draft picks. Just my 2 cents. I think taking a RT in the 2nd round would be a smart move. It is interesting that we didnt even have a 1st round pick this last year.....yet seemed to find several key contributers. Also I think it is very understated that while we dont have a lot of cap space we are one of the teams with the MOST players currently under contract.....that means that while other teams have more cap space they also have more holes to fill (and are in competition with other teams for those players) Its gonna be a frugal year.....there are some players on this team I want to see what they have that didnt get many opportunities last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I apologize I made my post and saw this which sorta is what I was asking you to do. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the bills might not sign Gilmore? and I am not saying that is going to happen and I think the bills can still afford him.....but lets face it.....Ronald Darby was the BEST corner we had on this team and that was as a rookie.....I am wondering if ANYONE expected him to be as good as he was as a 2nd round mid round pick. I totally disagree on Clay.....the reasons why he was a great for the bills - He is a great scheme fit....does everything we want and - He is just coming into his prime years as a player Im not really concerned about the knees....so Im not really concerned about paying the man in a way that will keep him around for a while. I think BBF is concerned about his health and long term costs and then getting that behind the team asap Why was it Clay missed time this year? I think he was worth the effort to extract from Miami. But not so sure he can maintain his health over the next 3 years or so. Pick your poison i suppose? I think taking a RT in the 2nd round would be a smart move. It is interesting that we didnt even have a 1st round pick this last year.....yet seemed to find several key contributers. Also I think it is very understated that while we dont have a lot of cap space we are one of the teams with the MOST players currently under contract.....that means that while other teams have more cap space they also have more holes to fill (and are in competition with other teams for those players) Its gonna be a frugal year.....there are some players on this team I want to see what they have that didnt get many opportunities last year. I think you are correct about being money smart. I actually like this outlook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spillerhighlife Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Felt like this might be a good place to post a couple questions with regards to the clay contract structure. First, why do teams offer contracts with the most money up front? In my opinion, it appears to open the door for a decline in player performance and motivation. Second, why wouldnt it make more sense for the franchise to have contracts that grow or rise as a player continues with a team? I think this makes more common sense and is more typical in most other industries. However, I understand people want to get paid. Personally, I think having players "grow" into their contracts would benefit the player and the franchise. It enhances the perception of loyalty and progress which can affect team moral in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Felt like this might be a good place to post a couple questions with regards to the clay contract structure. First, why do teams offer contracts with the most money up front? In my opinion, it appears to open the door for a decline in player performance and motivation. Second, why wouldnt it make more sense for the franchise to have contracts that grow or rise as a player continues with a team? I think this makes more common sense and is more typical in most other industries. However, I understand people want to get paid. Personally, I think having players "grow" into their contracts would benefit the player and the franchise. It enhances the perception of loyalty and progress which can affect team moral in the long term. Up front money, particularly the signing bonus, is usually the only guaranteed money a player gets and is a huge factor in negotiations. The upper echelon players have been getting more guarantees of late and Clay's contract is an extreme example of that. He got guaranteed money totaling $24.5M in the first two seasons and only $13.5M in non-guaranteed money in years 3-5. It was structured that way to make sure Miami wouldn't match, but it is not a smart contract structure and seems far in excess of what Miami would have matched. http://overthecap.com/player/charles-clay/675/ The other reason for large signing bonuses is that teams can entice a player to sign by offering a large initial payout, but can defer the cap hit by prorating it over a number of years (up to 5). Most contract structures do have rising salaries as years go on. Usually a contract is structured with a relatively large signing bonus, but small base salaries in the first year or two. Then larger salaries that increase over the duration of the deal. Sometimes there is even a huge salary in the last season to either artificially inflate the overall size of the contract (agents like that) or to force a new contract (sort of a pre-negotiated tag without using a tag). Lastly, if a player is on his last deal sometimes the salaries will drop off at the end. That is rare, but it happens. It is a nice structure if a player wants to end his career with a team, but sees a drop off in play on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It's what happens when you go all in for a playoff push and not a Super Bowl run and dont make either. Now the team is set back 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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