jimmy10 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 What about broken ribs in general? From your own article, the second one you posted: "Rib fractures are not usually dangerous in and of themselves. Patients may develop pneumonia from splinting. Morbidity correlates with the degree of injury to underlying structures." What are we arguing about anyway? That broken ribs can't be fatal? Of course they can be. On their own, they're likely not. Got change for a hundred?
FireChan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) From your own article, the second one you posted: "Rib fractures are not usually dangerous in and of themselves. Patients may develop pneumonia from splinting. Morbidity correlates with the degree of injury to underlying structures." What are we arguing about anyway? That broken ribs can't be fatal? Of course they can be. On their own, they're likely not. Got change for a hundred? I was just making the argument that rib fractures can be serious. AFAIK, we know nothing about the rib injury other than the fact that there was one. Edited February 18, 2016 by FireChan
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 They can be serious, but weren't. Hence the reason they were treated and released that day. Again the most serious was the alleged orbital bone fracture, but we don't know for sure. Although the guy who did that might warrant an aggravated assault charge.
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Why would I speculate as to how their bones were broken? How can anyone deem what is or isn't a superficial injury without firsthand knowledge? That is my point. Not an invalid point...but your post was asking others to speculate. Somebody linked it in this thread last week. Apparently offduty Philly cops have specific rules about being present in unlawful situations. It's not like I've been paying close attention to this train wreck of a thread. 90 pages on a bar fight.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Thanks. I've really been trying to stay out of this fray, having a pretty good idea of where it has likely been headed. My first take on these injuries is that they are not nearly as severe as first reported. An orbital fracture can be significant or insignificant. I think that fact is important in evaluating the conduct of the parties post-brawl. During a number of years spent working the ER in a major trauma center, I saw patients suffering from similar injuries to those reported for Complainant #1 (broken nose, laceration (I'm assuming above, not to) right eye, broken ribs, sprained thumb) on a number of occasions. Some were not, from the perspective of danger to life or permanent loss of function, serious. Some were very serious - for example, broken ribs can produce a flail chest, a condition where the breastbone is separated from the ribs on either side. Breathing is compromised. (I started to describe some of the serious versions of said injuries then said ..... nah, not going there). In 100% of the occasions where the injuries were serious, the victims arrived by transport - ambulance, usually (in one case, in the back of a speeding farm truck with a guy in the back holding on to the patient and the side of the truck for dear life and an adventitious police escort leading them. That one puked the triage nurse). They were in far too much distress to contemplate driving themselves. In 100% of the occasions where the patient drove themselves, the injuries, while they caused discomfort or pain and required treatment, were not serious from the perspective of danger to life or permanent loss of function (or even long term loss of function). Note: the percentage simply reflects my personal experience, but I'd bet a nice dinner that the experience of other health care providers would be within 5%. Also note that I am not asserting that 100% of the patients arriving by ambulance were seriously injured. I was just making the argument that rib fractures can be serious. AFAIK, we know nothing about the rib injury other than the fact that there was one. We know that it was not debilitating or painful enough to prevent the complainant from driving himself to the hospital, or to cause him to feel that EMS was required. Edited February 18, 2016 by Hopeful
reddogblitz Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I find them not calling the police very troubling. It not only brings up questions as to why for the delay but it also affected the investigation of the incident. There is no legitimate excuse (in my opinion) for not doing so. The police response for officers injured on duty or off would have been very rapid. Medical attention also would have been very rapid with a phone call to the authorities. My take is that the off duty police didn't want the police there. Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy.
hondo in seattle Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) DA reportedly has concerns about the case... "While McCoy and his associates were initially cited as the instigators, further investigation led the DA's office to have concerns about the actions of the officers in question. Gonzalez indicated the DA has questioned why a 911 call was not placed on the night in question and whether the officers were intoxicated at the time of the incident." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2617731-lesean-mccoy-arrest-warrant-to-be-delayed-by-district-attorney Edited February 18, 2016 by hondo in seattle
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy. They were so undercover, they we bombed out of their gourds.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy. This is some grade A conjecturing here. Well done!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy. Impressive!
Ontario51 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 DA reportedly has concerns about the case... "While McCoy and his associates were initially cited as the instigators, further investigation led the DA's office to have concerns about the actions of the officers in question. Gonzalez indicated the DA has questioned why a 911 call was not placed on the night in question and whether the officers were intoxicated at the time of the incident." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2617731-lesean-mccoy-arrest-warrant-to-be-delayed-by-district-attorney So this is a very long thread. What is the best guess on the length of the suspension? 2 or 4 games, full season, nothing?
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I think one game. i bet 4, just cuz it's philly and they are all thugs. just ask Dwight in...
JohnC Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy. I responded to the receipt issue on another thread. The reason for getting a receipt could simply be from paying by credit or debit card. You need to sign for the transaction and get a receipt for it. The not blowing their cover doesn't make sense to me. Because if they were undercover they could have still left the seen and reported the fight that same morning. If there was any injury associated to an undercover assignment, even if the fight had little to do with those who were being targeted, it would have immediately been reported . Reporting it the next day makes little sense if they were undercover.
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Broken nose? Broken ribs? Are they insignificant? fair question. I broke my nose running and falling as a child. it was quite a break. both eyes were black and blue for a week or so And then i have been punched (years ago) broke it and it was hardly noticable. Is there some degree of relativity. Is there a burden to prove How the Injury was incurred? Did the drunk guy fall down. stuff like that are all questions for me Here now, some light reading on the subject of broken ribs in car crashes. some of us have too much free time it seems. Me included ; )
LB3 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Unless they didn't want to blow their cover. Maybe they were working undercover. Explains why they had the Champagne receipt. They're going to need that for their expense report, Getting into a fight was like the old Nazi trick of shooting one of your own to problem you're not one of them. Getting into a fight at the club would make one think they weren't cops. Bad luck for them they got into with a Pro Bowl running back and hometown hero LeSean McCoy. Godwin's Law /thread
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) So this is a very long thread. What is the best guess on the length of the suspension? 2 or 4 games, full season, nothing? i will guess 4 and he appeals to 3. My reasoning is that it is a benchmark of 6 now for assault. However, it wasn't DV and this is if he's not convicted. I think goodell will want to be more heavy handed with DV, weapons, convictions, etc so he'll give less weight to a bar fight than say blowing up a girl's eardrum. It's also his first offense. Edited February 18, 2016 by YoloinOhio
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I responded to the receipt issue on another thread. The reason for getting a receipt could simply be from paying by credit or debit card. You need to sign for the transaction and get a receipt for it. The not blowing their cover doesn't make sense to me. Because if they were undercover they could have still left the seen and reported the fight that same morning. If there was any injury associated to an undercover assignment, even if the fight had little to do with those who were being targeted, it would have immediately been reported . Reporting it the next day makes little sense if they were undercover. As i mentioned upstream. i think these guys got some advice on how to act this out. Maybe it was not very good advice? to your bolded If they were working cops, they f'd this up pretty hard. and maybe that is why the DA is backing up the sh+tstorm train now?
purple haze Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Then why did the cops press charges? What in the video is the weak part for the DA? Cops suggested charges. The DA would be the one's to actually charge McCoy, et al. The DA has no obligation to take the cops suggestion if their investigation leads them in a different direction.
aristocrat Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 i will guess 4 and he appeals to 3. My reasoning is that it is a benchmark of 6 now for assault. However, it wasn't DV and this is if he's not convicted. I think goodell will want to be more heavy handed with DV, weapons, convictions, etc so he'll give less weight to a bar fight than say blowing up a girl's eardrum. It's also his first offense. I'd be shocked if it's more than 1.
JohnC Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 As i mentioned upstream. i think these guys got some advice on how to act this out. Maybe it was not very good advice? to your bolded If they were working cops, they f'd this up pretty hard. and maybe that is why the DA is backing up the sh+tstorm train now? What I believe happened with these cops is that they didn't want to report the incident after it happened. They didn't want the police involved. (My opinion.) If no one would have gotten hurt they simply would have moved on. The problem they ran into is that some of them sustained injuries that they couldn't hide and that precluded them from returning to work. Because of their job they were required to report the injuries and how it occurred. Did they falsify their stories or embellish it when they filed criminal complaints? I'm not going to take the leap. There is another aspect to this story that is troubling to me. The police quickly filed arrest papers and sent it to the DA's office. The DA is doing the right thing in slowing down the ram rod process and doing their due diligence. It seems to me that they are behaving very responsibly in this chaotic incident. The police should have taken more time to sort this jumbled case out before sending it up the pipeline to the DA's office.
Recommended Posts