Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Since we don't know exactly what the holdup is (if the case was a loser, why would the DA continue to delay?), let me just ask you directly: What is it that you think a jury would hear form the cops that would make a jury ignore the video and medical evidence (which may be all there is, other than the victims' testimony) and conclude the beating that theses 4 guys gave was justified and therefore not illegal? Weapons flashed or drawn? If they delay in the reporting excuses the beating, how exactly do you see it doing that? I'm just interested in you take here, other than the delay itself is suspicious. How does it relate to the charge of assault? I'll assume you didn't read the posts after this one that you're responding to.
JohnC Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Do we know who threw the first punch? And why two off-duty cops are in a bar buying champagne by the bottle (and getting receipts)? And why neither of them was armed (which seems the norm for cops, on or off-duty)? Not looking to excuse a 4 v 2 beatdown but the whole thing smells a little fishy. Maybe the delay is just about negotiating $$ but I can't help but wonder whether these guys were under cover? That may have been discussed previously but I'm not going back over the last 86 pages to check The receipt issue can be simply due to paying with a credit or debit card. You sign for the transaction. Nothing unusual about that. If the cops were drinking they shouldn't be armed. Many departments, especially city departments, require the police to be armed when they are in their jurisdiction. But if they are in a situation where drinking is going to occur I'm sure they shouldn't be armed as established by department rules and common sense.
K-9 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks. I've really been trying to stay out of this fray, having a pretty good idea of where it has likely been headed. My first take on these injuries is that they are not nearly as severe as first reported. An orbital fracture can be significant or insignificant. I think that fact is important in evaluating the conduct of the parties post-brawl. Broken nose? Broken ribs? Are they insignificant?
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Broken nose? Broken ribs? Are they insignificant? Broken how? I've had fractures that were insignificant.
K-9 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 The receipt issue can be simply due to paying with a credit or debit card. You sign for the transaction. Nothing unusual about that. If the cops were drinking they shouldn't be armed. Many departments, especially city departments, require the police to be armed when they are in their jurisdiction. But if they are in a situation where drinking is going to occur I'm sure they shouldn't be armed as established by department rules and common sense. The biggest issue I have with the cops is that they went against written protocol by not calling 911. Might be reasons for that, given the nature of the environment at the time as well as their injuries.
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 The biggest issue I have with the cops is that they went against written protocol by not calling 911. Might be reasons for that, given the nature of the environment at the time as well as their injuries. There's a written protocol for that?
K-9 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Broken how? I've had fractures that were insignificant. Why would I speculate as to how their bones were broken? How can anyone deem what is or isn't a superficial injury without firsthand knowledge? That is my point. There's a written protocol for that? Somebody linked it in this thread last week. Apparently offduty Philly cops have specific rules about being present in unlawful situations.
eball Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Broken nose? Broken ribs? Are they insignificant? When discussing "serious" injuries, yeah, I think so.
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Darn you, 26! I posted the same thing just a split second after you. Nice job. And here was an interesting excerpt: you don't say The cops behavior could be in question? Those cops are #rogue Edited February 18, 2016 by YoloinOhio
FireChan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 When discussing "serious" injuries, yeah, I think so. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256783/
jimmy10 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256783/ Here now, some light reading on the subject of broken ribs in car crashes.
JohnC Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) The biggest issue I have with the cops is that they went against written protocol by not calling 911. Might be reasons for that, given the nature of the environment at the time as well as their injuries. I find them not calling the police very troubling. It not only brings up questions as to why for the delay but it also affected the investigation of the incident. There is no legitimate excuse (in my opinion) for not doing so. The police response for officers injured on duty or off would have been very rapid. Medical attention also would have been very rapid with a phone call to the authorities. My take is that the off duty police didn't want the police there. If a police officer is injured in an off duty status he/she is required to notify the department because it affects his/her work status. There is much at stake for the officers with respect to their jobs. For the sake of argument if the injuries are not work related and they can't work for an extended period of time then they will have to use their own sick leave. They would also be required to explain the circumstances for the injuries. With an orbital or fracture type of injuries they could be out of work (at least as active employees) for a long time. I still believe the McCoy crew should be charged with some form of assault. But the longer the DA reviews the case the murkier it gets for me. There is also a lesson to be learned here: Having a good attorney on your side does make a difference. Edited February 18, 2016 by JohnC
FireChan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Here now, some light reading on the subject of broken ribs in car crashes. Furthermore, the presence of rib fractures is associated with a significant increase is fatality risk, regardless of concomitant trauma. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256783/ Edited February 18, 2016 by FireChan
jimmy10 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 There is also a lesson to be learned here: Having a good attorney on your side does make a difference. I think another Bills running back has already proven that. Furthermore, the presence of rib fractures is associated with a significant increase is fatality risk, regardless of concomitant trauma. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256783/ ...in car crashes.
FireChan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I think another Bills running back has already proven that. ...in car crashes. You're killing me dude. In one study of patients with rib fractures, the mortality rate reached 12%; of these, 94% had associated injuries and 32% had a hemothorax or a pneumothorax.[5] More than half of all patients required either operative or ICU management. Average blood loss per fractured rib is reportedly 100-150 mL. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/825981-overview#a6 Edited February 18, 2016 by FireChan
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I think another Bills running back has already proven that. ...in car crashes. or Marquise Goodwin #RIP #ribbies Edited February 18, 2016 by YoloinOhio
K-9 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 When discussing "serious" injuries, yeah, I think so. I understand that. But I thought you were making bone fractures out to be superficial injuries.
jimmy10 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 You're killing me dude. Hey, find some data on mortality rates resulting from broken ribs in bar fights, and you're on to something.
FireChan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Hey, find some data on mortality rates resulting from broken ribs in bar fights, and you're on to something. What about broken ribs in general?
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