Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Plead guilty without allocution and without admission of guilt, so Goodell has little to hang on him. Probation and a fine. Goodell can take all of this into consideration and do what he wants. You better believe that the defense attorney/s are going to point out possible reasons why the police left the scene on that day without calling the police. The people on the jury are not prim academics who are going to mull over the technicalities of the law. They are going to take the view that this is a bar fight that got out of control and one side dominated the other. Philly citizens have an understanding that sometimes life in the city can be rough and tumble. They are not going to be overly impressed and give major deference to the fact that one party had badges and were not on official duty and were at a drinking and carousing establishment at three in the morning. The DA's office knows that there were arse holes on both ends of the teeter totter. This is a case that screams for some settlement between the parties. Don't be too surprised if the off duty cops and especially the department are as eager for a settlement as the McCoy crew. The defense would have to come up with precise reasons the cops didn't call. The prosecutor isn't going to sit there and let the defense fantasize in front of the jury. Regardless, at this point, the DA already knows exactly why the cops did what they did. And, as others have said, maybe that's why he is taking pause. If this was just about money for a settlement, this would have been wrapped up already, not on indefinite hold. I'm guessing McCoy is balking at any admission of guilt even to a lesser charge, thinking of a lengthy suspension. And I bet the DA doesn't want to let him walk with a money deal and no guilt/charge/plea.
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I don't get this point about whether the cops thought it was a crime. The jury doesn't need the cops thoughts about what charges the police should file while the fight was going on--they filed charges ultimately. And a jury wouldn't need to really think too much about why the cops didn't call for backup. They will see the physical evidence and hear testimony form the cops and the perps (if they testify). If the defense is "why didn't the cops call for backup", I don't see how they would beat the rap. Your (new) claim that they didn't know it was a crime til hours later has no weight. Sure they might be hiding something. But that may have nothing to do with why they took the beating, or whether aggravated assault took place. Guy went to ground, video tape shows him getting punched and kicked by 4 pro athletes and medical records confirms the injuries. And you say the timing of the call to police makes this all go away? You and agree he will likely get charged with misdemeanor assault. What is there not to get? One cop was getting pummeled by 4 guys. Another got a bottle to his face. The third guy, well, we don't know what he was doing, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was just watching. You're telling me none of them thought a crime was being committed at that moment? I don't know about you, but if 4 guys are pummeling me or smashing a bottle in my face, I'm screaming for someone to call the cops, or at least doing it once I'm not getting pummeled anymore, so they can arrest the perps and interview witnesses before they leave. If I don't want the cops called, I either don't think it was a crime, or I'm trying to hide something. But like these guys, I might realize who was hitting me and look to score some cash. And I thought he would get a misdemeanor. The longer this drags on, the more I think the cops aren't looking like innocents anymore, and think they decide to settle out of court and drop charges. The defense would have to come up with precise reasons the cops didn't call. The prosecutor isn't going to sit there and let the defense fantasize in front of the jury. Regardless, at this point, the DA already knows exactly why the cops did what they did. And, as others have said, maybe that's why he is taking pause. If this was just about money for a settlement, this would have been wrapped up already, not on indefinite hold. I'm guessing McCoy is balking at any admission of guilt even to a lesser charge, thinking of a lengthy suspension. And I bet the DA doesn't want to let him walk with a money deal and no guilt/charge/plea. No, the cops would have to come up with precise reasons as to why they didn't call for backup for what was obviously a crime. It's not the defense's job to make excuses for them.
JohnC Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 The defense would have to come up with precise reasons the cops didn't call. The prosecutor isn't going to sit there and let the defense fantasize in front of the jury. Regardless, at this point, the DA already knows exactly why the cops did what they did. And, as others have said, maybe that's why he is taking pause. If this was just about money for a settlement, this would have been wrapped up already, not on indefinite hold. I'm guessing McCoy is balking at any admission of guilt even to a lesser charge, thinking of a lengthy suspension. And I bet the DA doesn't want to let him walk with a money deal and no guilt/charge/plea. The defense doesn't have to come up with precise reasons why the cops didn't call for the authorities on the same night of the event. He can throw out whatever sordid theories he wants and let the prosecution shoot them down. The theories are still floating in the air for the jury to consider even if the theories are refuted. If the police take the stand you don't think the defense attorney is not going to challenge them on how they handled their police responsibilities (even as victims)? You don't think that the defense attorney is going to ask them if they colluded to get their stories straight? No matter how they answer the challenging questions are still made for the jury to consider. The people who were pummeled were police officers. They should know how to respond to a bar fight even if it includes them. Not immediately calling for the police to respond certainly has affected the effectiveness of the investigation. The delay in the DA's office in rendering a decision may indicate that the facts are still muddled and not clear enough to result in a higher charge or that the office wants the parties to come to some sort of settlement (maybe including a lower charge and medical costs) so they can conclude this case. The DA can tell the parties, mostly to the police, that this case is inconclusive so we are not going to charge giving the police the option to pursue this case in the civil courts seeking damages. As I said in the prior post although this is a high profile case from their perspective this is a bull shiiit low priority case in which they don't want to use their limited resources for. The question to be asked is if the off duty police and the high profile athlete and his crew were not involved in this fracas but other miscreants were involved how would this case be handled? Obviously we don't have all the facts. If I had to guess I would say that the DA would prefer to have a deal in which McCoy and his grew agreed to a lower charge and some restitution for medical expenses. I thought from the beginning that the charges were going to be for aggravated assault. The DA can still do that with the intention of offering a plea deal of simple assault.
Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) What is there not to get? One cop was getting pummeled by 4 guys. Another got a bottle to his face. The third guy, well, we don't know what he was doing, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was just watching. You're telling me none of them thought a crime was being committed at that moment? I don't know about you, but if 4 guys are pummeling me or smashing a bottle in my face, I'm screaming for someone to call the cops, or at least doing it once I'm not getting pummeled anymore, so they can arrest the perps and interview witnesses before they leave. If I don't want the cops called, I either don't think it was a crime, or I'm trying to hide something. But like these guys, I might realize who was hitting me and look to score some cash. And I thought he would get a misdemeanor. The longer this drags on, the more I think the cops aren't looking like innocents anymore, and think they decide to settle out of court and drop charges. No, the cops would have to come up with precise reasons as to why they didn't call for backup for what was obviously a crime. It's not the defense's job to make excuses for them. No, I'm saying the opposite. They knew but didn't report it till later. Why they didn't report immediately?...who knows. I just don't know why it would matter much to a jury unless the defense can point to a specific act that would negate or cause them to feel that what they saw on the video was justified and proportional to the beating we all saw. The cops wouldn't be on trial. They would testify that they we embarrassed by the beating, or that they didn't want their bosses to know they were at a club all night. Who knows? Wouldn't matter unless the defense could convince the beating was righteous. And you are just now considering the cops may not be so innocent? The defense doesn't have to come up with precise reasons why the cops didn't call for the authorities on the same night of the event. He can throw out whatever sordid theories he wants and let the prosecution shoot them down. The theories are still floating in the air for the jury to consider even if the theories are refuted. If the police take the stand you don't think the defense attorney is not going to challenge them on how they handled their police responsibilities (even as victims)? You don't think that the defense attorney is going to ask them if they colluded to get their stories straight? No matter how they answer the challenging questions are still made for the jury to consider. The people who were pummeled were police officers. They should know how to respond to a bar fight even if it includes them. Not immediately calling for the police to respond certainly has affected the effectiveness of the investigation. Again, unless the defense can convince a jury that the beatings were a reasonable response to something the cops did off camera, it doesn't matter why the cops waited. And the prosecutor isn't going to let a defense attorney impugn his witnesses except on cross examination. He's not going to let him "float" his thoughts to the jury otherwise. Edited February 18, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 No, I'm saying the opposite. They knew but didn't report it till later. Why they didn't report immediately?...who knows. I just don't know why it would matter much to a jury unless the defense can point to a specific act that would negate or cause them to feel that what they saw on the video was justified and proportional to the beating we all saw. The cops wouldn't be on trial. They would testify that they we embarrassed by the beating, or that they didn't want their bosses to know they were at a club all night. Who knows? Wouldn't matter unless the defense could convince the beating was righteous. Saying "we knew it was a crime but didn't want to report it until later" doesn't wash as an excuse. Neither does "we were embarrassed." Again that's incompetence at best and covering for criminal behavior at worst, neither of which look good for them. And true they wouldn't be the ones on trial, but they'd be on the witness stand being cross-examined. And true they wouldn't be on trial. But they'd be on the witness stand.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 You know who doesn't report things like this to the cops ? Paranoid people who have something to lose or are way stoned.
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/17/mccoys-attorney-bills-running-back-did-nothing-wrong/ Interesting comments from the FOP guy (especially calling him "Shady"). Seems to want this over quickly. I wonder if he's worried about something? yep. interesting that Shady's attorney says that he was sober and insinuates that the others were not... yep i feel an i told you so forthcoming from me. I might be incorrect. we shall see . The FOP President is worried that facts will come into the light that won't portray his officers very well. It's pretty obvious that a serious breach in protocol happened when they waited for the hospital to report the incident hours later. We already have a defense attorney who was pretty stunned that they waited so long, I'd imagine McCoy's lawyers are all over it. we dont KNOW anything really, do we ?
blzrul Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Do we know who threw the first punch? And why two off-duty cops are in a bar buying champagne by the bottle (and getting receipts)? And why neither of them was armed (which seems the norm for cops, on or off-duty)? Not looking to excuse a 4 v 2 beatdown but the whole thing smells a little fishy. Maybe the delay is just about negotiating $$ but I can't help but wonder whether these guys were under cover? That may have been discussed previously but I'm not going back over the last 86 pages to check
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Sure is taking a long time for the cops to get their collective stories together. I have this problem when i was all sh+++ed up too. Here is the thing. and it is pure conjecture. The cops were unable to work the next shift due to injuries. The desk Chief says WTF did you idiots do? Then the stories start and some one says talk to legal right now. Legal says we need to file charges to protect the badge at the very least. So now it all about the lawyers. screw the video. The cops are in more trouble from within than without. but the end result may well be suspensions for the Cops and certainly from Roger. I might bet the cops involved wished this all went away well before it became elevated to the national stage. No turning back now is there? Number of pages the TSW thread has to get to before they can have closure. we are just warming up brother! Edited February 18, 2016 by 3rdand12
eball Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I refuse to read 80+ pages of this mess, but I'll ask one question: do we have the definitive list of precisely what the cops' injuries are? I recall hearing things about orbital fractures and skull fractures, but what has been confirmed (if anything)?
26CornerBlitz Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 @SalSports Report from @CSNPhilly: Philly DA "Pushing back" on arrest warrant for McCoy: http://www.wgr550.com/Report-Philly-DA-pushing-back-on-arrest-warrant-fo/22482370
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 @SalSports Report from @CSNPhilly: Philly DA "Pushing back" on arrest warrant for McCoy: http://www.wgr550.com/Report-Philly-DA-pushing-back-on-arrest-warrant-fo/22482370 Darn you, 26! I posted the same thing just a split second after you. Nice job. And here was an interesting excerpt: According to law enforcement officials, tension between the District Attorney’s office and PPD has risen over the last few days because of the delay in charging McCoy and three other men for their alleged role in a fight at Recess Lounge in Old City early on the morning of Feb. 7. Sources told CSNPhilly.com that the D.A.’s office is hesitant to issue warrants because it has questions about the conduct of the officers that evening, including that the officers did not call 9-1-1 during the incident and whether they were drinking to excess.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Nice. Arrest those hoodlum cops and let's play some football.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Darn you, 26! I posted the same thing just a split second after you. Nice job. And here was an interesting excerpt: Big news IMO.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 The FOP President is worried that facts will come into the light that won't portray his officers very well. It's pretty obvious that a serious breach in protocol happened when they waited for the hospital to report the incident hours later. We already have a defense attorney who was pretty stunned that they waited so long, I'd imagine McCoy's lawyers are all over it. Is that what happened, the hospital reported it? I thought the officers filed a complaint on Monday am. I could be wrong but don't think a hospital is required to report the sort of injuries the officers suffered. Gunshot or knife wounds yes.
Wayne Cubed Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Darn you, 26! I posted the same thing just a split second after you. Nice job. And here was an interesting excerpt: And with what McCoys attorney has said, that he was sober and the cops were not, I think the DA knows that McCoys attorney is going to "go to town" on those 3 cops.
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Do we know who threw the first punch? And why two off-duty cops are in a bar buying champagne by the bottle (and getting receipts)? And why neither of them was armed (which seems the norm for cops, on or off-duty)? Not looking to excuse a 4 v 2 beatdown but the whole thing smells a little fishy. Maybe the delay is just about negotiating $$ but I can't help but wonder whether these guys were under cover? That may have been discussed previously but I'm not going back over the last 86 pages to check Honestly, this is the most interesting 86 pages i have read here in years. And yes i think i suggested that something more was going on here than just a good time. If you read fully you would know there are more characters at Recess that evening than just our subjects. Some have forgotten who else was present of note. and who knows what entourage he had. I dont need to be right, but this is one of those scenes where things went terribly awry. and what we see is possibly not even the heart of the matter. Just my little person real life experience talkin I refuse to read 80+ pages of this mess, but I'll ask one question: do we have the definitive list of precisely what the cops' injuries are? I recall hearing things about orbital fractures and skull fractures, but what has been confirmed (if anything)? again if you read this you would have all these answers and even more questions. The DA will attempt to prove the injuries so we shall find out then the severity
Doc Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 It certainly explains the delay and the exasperation of the police chief and FOP prez.
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 @SalSports Report from @CSNPhilly: Philly DA "Pushing back" on arrest warrant for McCoy: http://www.wgr550.com/Report-Philly-DA-pushing-back-on-arrest-warrant-fo/22482370 No way! the DA said this? and the worm turns
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