3rdand12 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 And it's still not Wednesday yet. Of course it's one sided. I was wondering what McCoy could do to negate the images in the video, other than make some claim that he was jumped or the cop pulled a gun on him. a cop pulled a gun on him? are you leaning towards a tabloid reporting job so soon?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 The owner of the club bounced everyone after the beating broke up. Just curious, where did you get that information? Because I have been following the news on this, and I have not seen that reported. It said the 7 people involved (3 off-duty officers and McCoy's party of 4) were ejected. Not that "everyone" in the club was ejected. It would not be SOP for a club that does a huge amount of its business between 2 am and 3:30 am on Saturday night and has staff/servers/entertainers they have to pay.
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Saaaayyy..what? Anyway, it's not what is in my imagination that matters. I'm not a potential juror. If that is all they see, then McCoy will have already told the investigators that he felt his life was in danger so that's why he behaved the way he did in those videos--i.e. with proportionate force equal to the threat he perceived. If he hasn't claimed this, I again ask what is it that your imagination conjures up that explains away that scene in the videos, so that a jury could unanimously say "Oh, yeah--that was a justified beating"? I am actually really trying to stay out of this until more facts come out I am def not defending Shady here What I am saying is.....that video is a snapshot in time....we dont know what happened before or after....and the in a court of law a defense attorney is gonna have a lot to say about that.
JohnC Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Of course, i was just notifying the rest of the gang you are a good Kid . McCoy has his crew and you have your crew. Be careful--- they will get you in trouble. Remember the simple rule in clubbing: Keep your hands and feet to yourself!
3rdand12 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 From a number of accounts that I have read the cop group had a receipt for the champagne. That is not to say that reading about the accounts makes it true. You are right that everyone at the event was not interviewed. But there isn't a need to interview everyone at the event. If a number of witnesses including the staff give the same account supporting the victims' account that certainly would validate their version. I have not read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash. Not hearing anything bad about their behavior in the club isn't proof but it's interesting that no one, not even anonymously, that I am aware of has made the claim that the cops' behavior was out of line. What's interesting is that I have not heard that any of the McCoy group has been interviewed by the police. Not hearing about it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. By the end of this week we should get a better picture of what happened and what the claims are. I still believe that everyone in the McCoy party is going to be charged with aggravated assault. (That's an opinion.) Honestly John, this is just why the detectives or whomever would have been better served arriving asap. Before folks had time to think about the events. Even i can recall things as i see them. When you ask a number of folks who where just lucky enough for the insidious beat down first hand , maybe it is better to put the picture together of what truly occurred ? and again, we as regular folks are being fed. not quite a position to make conclusions.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 From a number of accounts that I have read the cop group had a receipt for the champagne. That is not to say that reading about the accounts makes it true. You are right that everyone at the event was not interviewed. But there isn't a need to interview everyone at the event. If a number of witnesses including the staff give the same account supporting the victims' account that certainly would validate their version. I have not read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash. Not hearing anything bad about their behavior in the club isn't proof but it's interesting that no one, not even anonymously, that I am aware of has made the claim that the cops' behavior was out of line. What's interesting is that I have not heard that any of the McCoy group has been interviewed by the police. Not hearing about it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. By the end of this week we should get a better picture of what happened and what the claims are. I still believe that everyone in the McCoy party is going to be charged with aggravated assault. (That's an opinion.) Heh. Have you read one account by anyone other than the complaint, mayor, FOP president etc? Link it if you have, because I'd like to read it. The DA doesn't have to interview everyone at the club, but the reported fact that the DA's office contacted several media outlets requesting names and contact info for the people who provided the cell phone video, and were told "sorry, they provided it anonymously and as media we can protect our sources" would seem to argue there are at least some people they want to talk to and are having to work to find.
3rdand12 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I am actually really trying to stay out of this until more facts come out I am def not defending Shady here What I am saying is.....that video is a snapshot in time....we dont know what happened before or after....and the in a court of law a defense attorney is gonna have a lot to say about that. good post McCoy has his crew and you have your crew. Be careful--- they will get you in trouble. Remember the simple rule in clubbing: Keep your hands and feet to yourself! LOLd as if i could even club. My crew compares and ranks rocking chairs and felt comforters Edited February 17, 2016 by 3rdand12
JohnC Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Honestly John, this is just why the detectives or whomever would have been better served arriving asap. Before folks had time to think about the events. Even i can recall things as i see them. When you ask a number of folks who where just lucky enough for the insidious beat down first hand , maybe it is better to put the picture together of what truly occurred ? and again, we as regular folks are being fed. not quite a position to make conclusions. The club should have notified the police. But from their standpoint if they threw out the participants of the fight then in their mind the issue was satisfactorily resolved. It's not surprising that the club didn't want a police report made regarding a fight in their establishment for licensing and reputation reasons. Without a doubt the police arriving on the scene sooner is better than later. In this case I place more responsibility on the victims for the delayed notification. But as it stands the victims of the pummeling did file the police report that started the official legal action. I'm not sure of the time line when the injured parties went to the hospital so I won't comment on that. However, an imperfect (flawed) investigation can come to the same conclusion that a better investigation would arrive at. Again, hopefully by the end of this week there should be a better understanding as to what happened or what is being claimed. Then an extended saga will follow.
JohnC Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Heh. Have you read one account by anyone other than the complaint, mayor, FOP president etc? Link it if you have, because I'd like to read it. The DA doesn't have to interview everyone at the club, but the reported fact that the DA's office contacted several media outlets requesting names and contact info for the people who provided the cell phone video, and were told "sorry, they provided it anonymously and as media we can protect our sources" would seem to argue there are at least some people they want to talk to and are having to work to find. As far as the FOP they did what any union would do in expressing support for their members, even before the facts are known. There is nothing unusual about their response. As far as the mayor commenting on the incident I have already expressed my disdain for his conduct. He acted in a self-serving political way trying to capitalize on an incident that he has little knowledge of. There is nothing new about politicians exhibiting poor judgment and acting irresponsibly in the belief that they can benefit from the situation. There is nothing unusual about the police continuing on with their investigation even after they filed criminal charges and before and after the DA has decided to officially charge the parties involved. As I said in my response to 3rd and 12 # 1637 a flawed police investigation doesn't necessarily mean that the conclusion they come to is not the same conclusion of a more thorough investigation. Hopefully, by the end of the week there should be more clarity as to what happened or is being claimed. That is only the beginning of a much longer saga. Edited February 17, 2016 by JohnC
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) As far as the FOP they did what any union would do in expressing support for their members, even before the facts are known. There is nothing unusual about their response. As far as the mayor commenting on the incident I have already expressed my disdain for his conduct. He acted in a self-serving political way trying to capitalize on an incident that he has little knowledge of. There is nothing new about politicians exhibiting poor judgment and acting irresponsibly in the belief that they can benefit from the situation. John, I was responding to your comment "I have not read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash. Not hearing anything bad about their behavior in the club isn't proof but it's interesting that no one, not even anonymously, that I am aware of has made the claim that the cops' behavior was out of line. " My point is I have not read one account other than the complaint, and information from "police sources", the FOP president, and the Mayor. So duh I haven't read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash, would you expect police sources, the FOP president, or the Mayor to say so? I'm not trying to criticize the FOP president or the mayor here, so your defense/clarification is unnecessary. I'm simply pointing out those are the only accounts I've read. Have you read any accounts from ordinary citizens who happened to be there that night? If you have, please link, 'cuz I'd like to read them. It's actually a bit spooky, usually people are all over their chance for 15 minutes of fame. Edited February 17, 2016 by Hopeful
jimmy10 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) You do realize that the video did not start at the beginning of the fight? Anything could have happened, including but not limited to, the police officers throwing haymakers to start the fight. Who knows what really happened. All you know is what you think you see on a phone camera. That's easy, for a more complete picture, all they have to do is check the club's own security camera footage... oh, that's right, the cameras were malfunctioning that night. Huh. What a co-inky-dink. Edited February 17, 2016 by jimmy10
reddogblitz Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 McCoy has his crew and you have your crew. As long as McCoy's crew has a DFG (Designated Fall Guy), we're good.
Doc Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Anyone who thinks off duty cops involved in a bar fight are going to call "911" from the scene is out of their mind. Obviously the off duty cops felt this altercation put them in an awkward position. If either of the cops were beaten unconscious, I bet they would have called for guns out response from guys on the job. Since they all walked away, I'm sure the beaten cops wanted to assess their situation and options. No real mystery in that. The burden of proof rests with the DA, but really, the video will force McCoy and his buds to prove that there was some proportionally brutal injury or serious threat to their lives made by the cops before they put the cops on the ground and started stomping. Not sure how they do that. So let me get this straight. One cop is getting pummeled by 4 guys, another gets a bottle to his face, and the 3rd guy feels awkward about calling for backup even though Shady and his boys intend to inflict "serious bodily injury" on his buds... and they have to wait and assess that a crime was committed? LOL! Well, it is the Keystone state. And the video definitely hurts Shady. Even if he gets a misdemeanor or if the charges are somehow dropped, I can't see him escaping without a suspension from Sir Rog.
T master Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Why isn't there something written in these contracts that say if for any reason these guys get arrested & it is more than a misdemeanor & are proven guilty their contract is void ! Especially with video footage of an incident that way there is no doubt that the person is guilty . Mark him done .. And move on . Unless for what ever reason McCoy was defending him self from the guy & had to punch him or what ever he did that would be a different story . But if they were just being punks then SEE YAH !! Go TO JAIL - Do NOT PASS GO AND VOID YOUR CONTRACT DUE TO STUPIDITY !! Edited February 17, 2016 by T master
JohnC Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 John, I was responding to your comment "I have not read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash. Not hearing anything bad about their behavior in the club isn't proof but it's interesting that no one, not even anonymously, that I am aware of has made the claim that the cops' behavior was out of line. " My point is I have not read one account other than the complaint, and information from "police sources", the FOP president, and the Mayor. So duh I haven't read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash, would you expect police sources, the FOP president, or the Mayor to say so? I'm not trying to criticize the FOP president or the mayor here, so your defense/clarification is unnecessary. I'm simply pointing out those are the only accounts I've read. Have you read any accounts from ordinary citizens who happened to be there that night? If you have, please link, 'cuz I'd like to read them. It's actually a bit spooky, usually people are all over their chance for 15 minutes of fame. My point is basically not even an anonymous source has come out and suggested that the cops (not known to be cops) were acting inappropriately. That's not to say that they did or did not act aggressively but I haven't heard that it is the case.. There were plenty of people who were close to the scuffle yet not one account indicated that they instigated the conflict. (Of course that doesn't mean that some people haven't come forward and given accounts that indicate otherwise.) As far as the FOP and Mayor's comments that is noise from people who were not at the event and know nothing about the actual event. The primary evidence that outsiders have is the tape. The tape showed McCoy in action, being pulled away and then returning to the fray. Not a good look. By the end of the week the DA will make a determination. I think it is going to result in aggravated assault charges for all of the McCoy crew, you think otherwise. Your opinion is as reasonable as mine. If the DA decides to charge that will only be the beginning of the legal wrangling.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Anyone who thinks off duty cops involved in a bar fight are going to call "911" from the scene is out of their mind. Obviously the off duty cops felt this altercation put them in an awkward position. If either of the cops were beaten unconscious, I bet they would have called for guns out response from guys on the job. Since they all walked away, I'm sure the beaten cops wanted to assess their situation and options. No real mystery in that. The burden of proof rests with the DA, but really, the video will force McCoy and his buds to prove that there was some proportionally brutal injury or serious threat to their lives made by the cops before they put the cops on the ground and started stomping. Not sure how they do that. True, but the DA said last week it wouldn't be before this mid-week. It's not like each day comes and goes with nothing. "My analyst told me That I was right out of my head He said I'd need treatment But I'm not that easily led He said I was the type That was most inclined When out of his sight To be out of my mind And he thought I was nuts No more ifs or ands or buts" -Twisted, Ross and Grey, sung by Joni Mitchell I dig that the courts aren't all about the "reasonable man", but here's my "reasonable man" take: if a "mob" or "crowd" is "wilding", er, committing a felony aggravated assault with intent to cause serious injury on your brother officers, wouldn't you call for backup immediately? And here's my "reasonable man" question: if you didn't make the call, or afterwards didn't call for medics, why not? "Nothing so useless as altitude above you, runway behind you, or calling for backup when it's too late". If you hesitate and your partner were seriously injured or killed, wouldn't that be something you'd kick your own ass about for the rest of your life? If you're willing to hold back and reflect on your "awkward situation", maybe you're not so worried about your health and safety or that of your brother officers at the time; maybe it just didn't look like a serious felony aggravated assault at the time. Maybe something else later changed your mind. Edited February 17, 2016 by Hopeful
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 So let me get this straight. One cop is getting pummeled by 4 guys, another gets a bottle to his face, and the 3rd guy feels awkward about calling for backup even though Shady and his boys intend to inflict "serious bodily injury" on his buds... and they have to wait and assess that a crime was committed? LOL! Well, it is the Keystone state. And the video definitely hurts Shady. Even if he gets a misdemeanor or if the charges are somehow dropped, I can't see him escaping without a suspension from Sir Rog. LOL! I agree the video hurts Shady and that Sir Roger shall smite him with suspension no matter what happens legally. My point is basically not even an anonymous source has come out and suggested that the cops (not known to be cops) were acting inappropriately. That's not to say that they did or did not act aggressively but I haven't heard that it is the case.. There were plenty of people who were close to the scuffle yet not one account indicated that they instigated the conflict. (Of course that doesn't mean that some people haven't come forward and given accounts that indicate otherwise.) That's my point John. We haven't heard a peep from the general public, aside from the cell phone videos. Usually people are lining up to talk to Inside Edition or whoever. Weird, innit?
Go Kiko go Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I couldn't find anything either other than Ms. Cave (just curious, why did you redact her name?) being the only one charged. Which makes me wonder whether they just charged the "ring leader" for aggravated assault. I was quoting from an appellate court opinion, so they were referring to her as "Appellant." I swapped those to "defendant" just to make it more accessible. Edited February 17, 2016 by Go Kiko go
Doc Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I was quoting from an appellate court opinion, so they were referring to her as "Appellant." I swapped those to "defendant" just to make it more accessible. My mistake.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Probably because players would start figuring out how to get arrested so they can become free agents!. Would become a windfall for too many players! The longer this drags out, the more likely this whole thing is on somewhat shaky ground IMO. Or they can't figure out how to come after McCoy & co without also making the cops look bad. Why isn't there something written in these contracts that say if for any reason these guys get arrested & it is more than a misdemeanor & are proven guilty their contract is void !
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