BillsfaninMyrtleBeach Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 I can hear Chip Kelly laughing from here!
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 I can hear Chip Kelly laughing from here! Chip Kelly, BuffaloBillsForever and Badol are sitting at a table with a bottle of bourbon, smoking a cigar with a big grin on our face.
Captain_Quint Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Chip Kelly, BuffaloBillsForever and Badol are sitting at a table with a bottle of bourbon, smoking a cigar with a big grin on our face. Admit it. Your pants are all off and FireChan is under the table.
JohnC Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Do the police officer complainants get a voice in what charges the DA files? For ordinary folks, it seems the citizen files a complaint, the DA decides whether and what charges will be filed, and that's that. And isn't compensation for pain and suffering a civil matter, separate from the criminal case? The complainants (off duty policy) filed criminal complaints with the police. The police take the complaint and give it a case# and write it up and follow it up with an investigation. They found that there was probable cause for particular charge/s. They send the arrest paperwork to the prosecuting attorney's office who reviews the paperwork and case. They make the determination to paper the case or not. The police attach the charges to the original paperwork but the prosecuting attorney's office can change the charges by lowering it, raising it or even adding additional charges. If the defendants are found guilty the sentencing judge will decide punishment which can include some form of restitution. You are correct that the main money issue of compensation will occur from a civil case. But what can happen in this case is that prior to going to trial there can be a settlement among the parties that will influence how the prosecuting office handles the case. As an example the prosecutor is willing to lower the charge from an aggravated assault to a simple assault if the victims agree to a $$$ settlement, The attorney/s representing the presumptive defendants are going to earn their money in negotiating a plea deal and a settlement more than from the trial itself. (My opinion) In my eyes the big issue hanging over the presumptive defendants is how injured are the victims? If they are seriously hurt to the extent that they can't go back to work the McCoy crew is screwed because the prosecuting attorney's office will probably not reduce the charges. In addition, if there is a civil case after the criminal case is disposed of the level of injuries is going to be a major issue relating to compensation. Note: You bring up an interesting issue regarding whether the complainants have a say on what the charges should be. Normally a civilian makes the complaint and the police decide on the initial charges subject to being changed by the prosecutors office. In this case where the victims know the law they should understand what the charges should be and are in accord with the impending charges. But generally speaking the complainant doesn't determine the charge----they make the complaint and the police authority makes the determination as to what the criminal violation is. i addendum: With respect to the charges the issue is what does the particular criminal statute say and what are the elements to it. The elements to the offense have to match the law being applied. Edited February 13, 2016 by JohnC
BringBackFergy Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 So when the made for tv movie "Crushed Grapes and Cracked Eye Sockets: The Shady McCoy Trial" premiers on Lifetime, who will play Shady McCoy?
Coach Tuesday Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Admit it. Your pants are all off and FireChan is under the table. Arguing with a mouse.
CommonCents Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 So when the made for tv movie "Crushed Grapes and Cracked Eye Sockets: The Shady McCoy Trial" premiers on Lifetime, who will play Shady McCoy? Always reminded me of a young Beetlejuice Green from Howard Stern.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) The complainants (off duty policy) filed criminal complaints with the police. The police take the complaint and give it a case# and write it up and follow it up with an investigation. They found that there was probable cause for particular charge/s. They send the arrest paperwork to the prosecuting attorney's office who reviews the paperwork and case. They make the determination to paper (me: pursue?) the case or not. The police attach the charges to the original paperwork but the prosecuting attorney's office can change the charges by lowering it, raising it or even adding additional charges. Right, this matches my understanding of how the process works (though I haven't heard the term "paper" before). The police/investigators recommend charges, the prosecuting attorney's office decides which charges to pursue. Earlier you said "Will the complainants (injured cops) be willing to go along with a lesser charge? That question is probably related to compensation for pain and suffering.". So my question is: do the complainants (off duty police) because they are off duty police, get more say to "buy in" to a lesser charge? And if that's the case, does it stem from being educated in the system and having attorneys who are educated in the system and who will raise a fuss if they don't agree with the charges? Or does matter in the sense you outline below, regarding the impact of a settlement? You are correct that the main money issue of compensation will occur from a civil case. But what can happen in this case is that prior to going to trial there can be a settlement among the parties that will influence how the prosecuting office handles the case. As an example the prosecutor is willing to lower the charge from an aggravated assault to a simple assault if the victims agree to a $$$ settlement, The attorney/s representing the presumptive defendants are going to earn their money in negotiating a plea deal and a settlement more than from the trial itself. That's very interesting. I hadn't understood before that the defendents/victims could agree to a financial settlement which would impact criminal trial proceedings. I spent years working in a major city emergency room. The tricky injury is the orbital fracture. A lot of unknowns there. Depending upon just what is broken and where, it can have persistent effects on vision, cause headaches, impact eye movement (which in turn impacts vision). Or it can heal in a couple weeks with no lasting effects. But you can see an orbital fracture out of a HS hockey or basketball game, hockey jokes aside no aggravated assault needed. Stuff like broken ribs/broken nose/cut over eye - people do stuff like that to themselves all the time falling off bicycles let alone motorbikes. Typically (and painting with a broad brush here) if a guy feels good to drive himself around, it's not too serious. People with flail chests from someone jumping on them while they're down typically don't move too well on their own. Edited February 13, 2016 by Hopeful
Augie Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 this is as much fun as watching CJ Spiller run up the middle. CJ up the middle never takes very long. The pain ends much more quickly. But, yeah.....
JohnC Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Right, this matches my understanding of how the process works (though I haven't heard the term "paper" before). The police/investigators recommend charges, the prosecuting attorney's office decides which charges to pursue. Earlier you said "Will the complainants (injured cops) be willing to go along with a lesser charge? That question is probably related to compensation for pain and suffering.". So my question is: do the complainants (off duty police) because they are off duty police, get more say to "buy in" to a lesser charge? And if that's the case, does it stem from being educated in the system and having attorneys who are educated in the system and who will raise a fuss if they don't agree with the charges? Or does matter in the sense you outline below, regarding the impact of a settlement? That's very interesting. I hadn't understood before that the defendents/victims could agree to a financial settlement which would impact criminal trial proceedings. I spent years working in a major city emergency room. The tricky injury is the orbital fracture. A lot of unknowns there. Depending upon just what is broken and where, it can have persistent effects on vision, cause headaches, impact eye movement (which in turn impacts vision). Or it can heal in a couple weeks with no lasting effects. But you can see an orbital fracture out of a HS hockey or basketball game, hockey jokes aside no aggravated assault needed. Stuff like broken ribs/broken nose/cut over eye - people do stuff like that to themselves all the time falling off bicycles let alone motorbikes. Typically (and painting with a broad brush here) if a guy feels good to drive himself around, it's not too serious. People with flail chests from someone jumping on them while they're down typically don't move too well on their own. As far as the off duty cops buying in or not with a plea agreement (reduction in charge) I'm sure they will be asked their opinions. But if the prosecutor determines that the best approach is for a reduced charge it will be a reduced charge. The prosecutor is making the determination and having the final say. It's not unusual for police departments to get very upset with plea deals but the system would not work without the deals. The system would be overwhelmed so court administration and capacity is factored into the equation. I know of many cases where the prosecuting attorney's office will say good case but we can't handle it. The case is no papered (simply meaning it will not be processed.) This is not a typical bar room brawl case in which it would be a standard case that gets routinely disposed of. A big factor is that off duty policemen are involved, a high profile pro athlete is involved, there are unofficial issues relating to the relationship between the police and the prosecutor's office (each are dependent on the other) , politicians are commenting and the media is giving it much attention. As I stated in my prior post if some of the injuries turn out to be serious in my opinion the McCoy crew is going to have less ability to make a deal. A felony conviction against McCoy in a high profile case will result in a major suspension if not put his career in jeopardy. Roger Goodell is watching and waiting to act like a hard asss sheriff. When it comes to an issue of PR he doesn't act on the law--- he acts on how it makes him look.
truth on hold Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 As far as the off duty cops buying in or not with a plea agreement (reduction in charge) I'm sure they will be asked their opinions. But if the prosecutor determines that the best approach is for a reduced charge it will be a reduced charge. The prosecutor is making the determination and having the final say. It's not unusual for police departments to get very upset with plea deals but the system would not work without the deals. The system would be overwhelmed so court administration and capacity is factored into the equation. I know of many cases where the prosecuting attorney's office will say good case but we can't handle it. The case is no papered (simply meaning it will not be processed.) This is not a typical bar room brawl case in which it would be a standard case that gets routinely disposed of. A big factor is that off duty policemen are involved, a high profile pro athlete is involved, there are unofficial issues relating to the relationship between the police and the prosecutor's office (each are dependent on the other) , politicians are commenting and the media is giving it much attention. As I stated in my prior post if some of the injuries turn out to be serious in my opinion the McCoy crew is going to have less ability to make a deal. A felony conviction against McCoy in a high profile case will result in a major suspension if not put his career in jeopardy. Roger Goodell is watching and waiting to act like a hard asss sheriff. When it comes to an issue of PR he doesn't act on the law--- he acts on how it makes him look. Felony conviction could allow bills to terminate his contract without paying him anything further, and reclaim part of his bonus. I read most NFL contracts have language addressing this.
JohnC Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Felony conviction could allow bills to terminate his contract without paying him anything further, and reclaim part of his bonus. I read most NFL contracts have language addressing this. K-9 in another post indicated that the organization is closely examining the contract to see what their options are with him. I myself don't know what the organization can and can't do regarding off-field legal issues.
K-9 Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Notice I said "opinion" and "suggests." Words that couch his statment basically as "listen, I don't know sh*t about sh*t with these guys, but being in the profession myself, the circumstances we know about sure seem weird." Lol, there's my man E with the reading comprehension. I didn't want to get into an argument over semantics, but seeing as how you saw fit to insult my reading comprehension, please explain how one can have an opinion on behavior he never observed and how that non-observance can suggest anything at all. Instead of questioning the reading comprehension of others, perhaps you would do better to communicate in a comprehensible manner to begin with.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 hopefully we can use this to renegotiate ridiculous contract
John from Riverside Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Felony conviction could allow bills to terminate his contract without paying him anything further, and reclaim part of his bonus. I read most NFL contracts have language addressing this. God you keep harping over this Do you REALLY think this is what is in the best interests of the team? To cut a talented running back on a team where the scheme is to stress the run?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 So when the made for tv movie "Crushed Grapes and Cracked Eye Sockets: The Shady McCoy Trial" premiers on Lifetime, who will play Shady McCoy? I don't know, but they both sound like great names for garage bands. "The Crushed Grapes, opening for the Cracked Eye Sockets"
FireChan Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 I didn't want to get into an argument over semantics, but seeing as how you saw fit to insult my reading comprehension, please explain how one can have an opinion on behavior he never observed and how that non-observance can suggest anything at all. Instead of questioning the reading comprehension of others, perhaps you would do better to communicate in a comprehensible manner to begin with.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Felony conviction could allow bills to terminate his contract without paying him anything further, and reclaim part of his bonus. I read most NFL contracts have language addressing this. Did that work for the Pats** with Aaron Hernandez?
boyst Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 CJ up the middle never takes very long. The pain ends much more quickly. But, yeah..... CJ up the middle is never just once up the middle. it happens over and over again this is like Fitzpatrick having a 2nd half lead.
CommonCents Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 CJ up the middle is never just once up the middle. it happens over and over again this is like Fitzpatrick having a 2nd half lead. This is like Marvin Lewis in the playoffs.
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