Yet another fine effort by Ty Dunne...re: the D

[Thurman#1]

"One thing I know about Rex Ryan is he knows how to coach defense," Scott said. "I’m confident saying he’s one of the best defensive minds in the game today.

 

Is that why his scoring defenses in NY were ranked 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th from 2011 thru 2014? ... because he's one of the best defensive minds in the game today?

 

This year's D certainly didn't reveal that.

 

Just curious.

 

It's also possible that a D that is so complex that only an extreme minority of players can actually make sense of it and then ebonics it down to field level may not be all that practical in todays NFL with its revolving door free agency turnstyle system where it's difficult to keep a defensive roster together for more than 2-3 seasons.

 

Seems like the time the players will pick it up they'll have one foot out the door.

 

As they say though, what Dunne says sounds good on paper and without much additional thought.

 

 

 

Scoring defense is a lot more about the whole team than defense by yards.

 

When your offense is in and your QB throws a pick-six, how does that make your defense worse? Answer: in scoring defense, it just does, as if by magic. Your RB fumbles and the other team recovers on your 16 yard-line. The defense sacks the QB twice and stops a draw play cold and their field-goal kicker nails a 55-yarder. By scoring defense, your defense did something bad there, allowing three points. The STs allow a punt return for a TD. In scoring defense, your defense is on the hook for that.

 

A crappy offense and crappy STs put the defense in bad field position, which makes it look better or worse in scoring defense. Not that defense by yards is perfect, but at least it isolates the defense much better, and the Jets' offenses were not good in the Ryan years.

 

But in yards, the Jets defense was 16th the year before Ryan arrived. His first year, they ranked 1st, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 11th and 6th. Fair enough if you want to question the trends there, but top eleven every single year really is very good.

[26CornerBlitz]

not buying that, Broncos beat the crap out of Brady with pressure even though drop many back into coverage. Wade is just smarter than Rex

IIRC the Broncos used a lot of 3 and 4 man rushes with tight coverage.

[Chandler#81]

"One thing I know about Rex Ryan is he knows how to coach defense," Scott said. "I’m confident saying he’s one of the best defensive minds in the game today.

 

Is that why his scoring defenses in NY were ranked 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th from 2011 thru 2014? ... because he's one of the best defensive minds in the game today?

 

This year's D certainly didn't reveal that.

 

Just curious.

 

 

...

Cherry pick much? Rex's OFFENSE delivered 50 pts to us last season. Vick & Geno are trademark turnover machines and have been throughout their careers.

I don't put much faith in anything Bart Scott says and Cowher is foolish to think 'a couple more years' is a contemporary model in the NFL. Still, Dunne is a refreshing change in sports journalism in that he uses 'expert insight' to relay his stories vs the single-minded, agenda driven writers like our 'beloved' Jerry Sullivan.

[Beerball]

IIRC the Broncos used a lot of 3 and 4 man rushes with tight coverage.

so what you're saying is "they adapted." Novel approach.

[The Big Cat]

 

The Broncos were getting to Brady with 3/4 man rushes.

 

Their guys beat the **** out of the Patriots O-Line upfront. Something our D-Line did a lot of to opponents in 2014.

 

As someone already mentioned, it is mind boggling that our defense went from 2nd to 31st in sacks with the same personnel.

 

Yeah, a lot of fans were stupefied had how completely incapable Mario Williams became at beating the guy in front of him.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

 

Actually, I thought the part about not having a Leonhard there was right on.

 

Who did Rex bring with him from the Jets on defense? Leonhard was the defensive signal caller and from all accounts an extremely bright guy who put everyone in the right positions.

 

I mean, they had Enemkpali, but he wasn't there from the beginning helping everyone get used to the system, and he wasn't in the center of things anyway, at DE.

 

If your entire coaching staff, completely and intimately familiar your defensive scheme, cannot instill that defense into the minds of a talented bunch of pro athletes without the aid of a bright journeyman Safety....then you and your staff are not good coaches.

 

Pretty simple.

[Marty McFly]

The spots that don't change are the reality of the stats and outcomes. The defense Rex coached last year took a precipitous drop from the previous year with much of the same roster. There is no basis to argue that his defense was a success when it wasn't. What you are trying to do is rationalize a deterioration in performance when there isn't a good reason for doing so.

 

If you want to believe that Rex did a good job with the defense then go ahead and believe it. I'm not accepting your interpretation of what happened this past season, I trust my eyes and the stats more than I trust what you are advocating. The record for last season is in the books. My position on how Rex coached the defense will not change because the record/performance is established.

 

Go ahead and keep making excuses. Go ahead and keep creating new rationals for what happened. That's your prerogative. I'm not buying what you are peddling and never will.

Theres truth in both arguments. We lost Spikes and Searcy which were great in Shartzenators scheme. Spikes was a veteran run stuffing 2 down MLB. Searcy was a genuine Saftey and a good one at that. with all the offseason moves they never replaced Spikes or Searcy and that hurt the defense more then anyone would have exptected. This doesnt absolve Rex of his in-ability to see the holes in his defense roster, and the gap between his scheme and the players strengths and what that would do to morale and overall results. Which is why I think 2016 is make or break for Rex with 2 years to implement his scheme and another draft to grab guys that fit his scheme, if the Defense falls under top 10 again, hes gone.

[todd]

what you said.

 

Yep. I don't think anyone disagrees that the defense was bad last year, especially given the quality of players. Where I think people disagree is the solution. My personal opinion is that often a solution is more nuanced than the neanderthal "I hate it! Blow it up!" solution that so many posters here think is the only way. Preaching patience doesn't sell newspapers and it doesn't get page views. But it is often simpler jump to the "BLOW IT UP!" conclusion than an analysis of a better one.

[JohnC]

Theres truth in both arguments. We lost Spikes and Searcy which were great in Shartzenators scheme. Spikes was a veteran run stuffing 2 down MLB. Searcy was a genuine Saftey and a good one at that. with all the offseason moves they never replaced Spikes or Searcy and that hurt the defense more then anyone would have exptected. This doesnt absolve Rex of his in-ability to see the holes in his defense roster, and the gap between his scheme and the players strengths and what that would do to morale and overall results. Which is why I think 2016 is make or break for Rex with 2 years to implement his scheme and another draft to grab guys that fit his scheme, if the Defense falls under top 10 again, hes gone.

The NFL of today because of the cap and free agency is about player movement. That is an aspect that no team can avoid.. All teams have to contend with and adjust to the changing roster that occurs every year. Injuries are another reality that is part of the fabric of the environment. That is also inescapable.

 

The HC works with the talent he has on hand, not what he wishes he had on hand. Good coaches prioritize putting the players in the best situation for them to succeed. In my opinion Rex did a poor job adjusting to the talent he had. Dareus, Hughes, Mario and the linebacking corps had major drop-offs under Rex than they did with the previous two defensive coordinators. The defense in general had a major drop-off from the previous two years. What's obvious to me isn't obvious to others.

 

No more excuses.

[Marty McFly]

The NFL of today because of the cap and free agency is about player movement. That is an aspect that no team can avoid.. All teams have to contend with and adjust to the changing roster that occurs every year. Injuries are another reality that is part of the fabric of the environment. That is also inescapable.

 

The HC works with the talent he has on hand, not what he wishes he had on hand. Good coaches prioritize putting the players in the best situation for them to succeed. In my opinion Rex did a poor job adjusting to the talent he had. Dareus, Hughes, Mario and the linebacking corps had major drop-offs under Rex than they did with the previous two defensive coordinators. The defense in general had a major drop-off from the previous two years. What's obvious to me isn't obvious to others.

 

No more excuses.

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

[JohnC]

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

With respect to the highlighted question the answer is yes if he gets fired.

[Adam]

linky

 

Well worth the read for those questioning Rex's ability to coach defense and how sacks/pressure relate to today's game.

He does very well at press conferences

[JohnC]

 

Everyone's numbers were down.

 

I think its obvious Rex's gap control defense was the main reason for the huge decline in sacks....players were bitching about it in the preseason...

 

Mario was a B word. No question.

 

Some choose to find any reason in the book to excuse Rex for this past years defense... And I have a hard time understanding why when, I agree, it is obvious he was the main culprit.

Regardless of the lamenting Rex is staying on. Is he the long term answer as a HC? Not in my eyes. I'm hoping that Whaley has a good draft and makes some sound mid-range free agent pickups and Rex does a better job of adapting to the talent and the players do a better job of adapting to what he is scheming. That's all you can ask for.

 

I like Whaley as a GM. He has made some moves that gives me pause to benefit the short term over the long term, such as the McCoy pickup. His explanation as told on WGR was that he wants the team to get over the non-playoff barrier sooner rather than later. I'm not going to argue against his reasoning. I'm just hoping that the current coaching situation doesn't jeopardize his status as a GM. In my view we have the right ownership and GM in place to accomplish a lot more than has been accomplished in a long time. For me the current coaching situation is a drag on a lot of positive things happening for this franchise.

 

If I'm wrong about my jaundice assessment of the HC I will be more than happy to admit being wrong. But I'm not confident that it will play out that way because Rex is Rex. We got exactly what we hired.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I think its obvious the HC had a lot to do with the defensive drop off bc thats his "specialty" and calls the plays pretty much, he is responsible for not replacing spikes and searcy as well as adjusting during the season. I watch jets games and was NOT pleased with the Rex hire especially losing Shwartz but the FA moves they made gave me "bills" hope lol. I just hope Pegs has the insight to cut Rex off if it doesnt work out this season. The question is, after a signed 5 year deal, does Pegs still have to pay Rex the whole contract if he gets fired next off-season?

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Aaron

[JohnC]

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

You make a keen observation about the ramifications of Marrone's unexpected departure. I suspect that there was more friction between Marrone and Whaley that was already publicly known. DM probably felt that the friction with Whaley was irreconcilable and that his long term prospects with Whaley as his boss, was not good. Marrone knew that the new owner was going to wait another year before deciding on whether to offer him an extension. So he took a buyout when his extension request was denied with the expectation that he was a serious backdoor candidate for the Jets job. The rumor was that the Jets retreated from a tacit agreement with him because of the fear of being accused of tampering, which it was. The end result is that Doug miscalculated and that miscalculation is going to follow him for a long time in the NFL. That is why I believe that his next head coaching job will be in the college ranks.

[eball]

I don't think the money is the reason Rex was retained. The Pegulas spent over a billion for the team, I don't know that something like 25 million really bothers them when it's as important to winning as head coach.

 

Marrone put them in a rough spot when he backed out. They thought they'd come aboard and evaluate the likes of he and Whaley for one year before making a decision on contract extensions.

 

Then Rex tricked them and his performance was disappointing. I think they just didn't want their first act as owners to be hiring a coach who is extremely well liked around the league to a five year deal, then fire him after a single 8 and 8 season, and after season one be forced to hire coach two. That is about as bumpy a start as you can get.

 

If Rex disappoints once more, I have faith he'll be out.

 

Aaron, this is an intelligent take, but it's not proven fact. There is also a narrative that the Pegulas were hoping Marrone would leave, or that they may have fired him themselves if he didn't.

 

I completely agree with you that money isn't an issue. I believe the Pegulas genuinely like Rex, and they also understand firing him after one .500 season would have been the definition of "knee-jerk reaction."

[Marty McFly]

With respect to the highlighted question the answer is yes if he gets fired.

DAMN!! wow. wish I had an agent like Rex...damn why the hell wouldnt Pegs go for a 3 year deal? Rex has to have one of the best contract negotiating agents in the game. Wat if this was Rexs scam all along? Talk big. Fall flat. Get fired take the money retire and run to the next TV channel that will hire me off my personality and promo skills.

[YoloinOhio]

DAMN!! wow. wish I had an agent like Rex...damn why the hell wouldnt Pegs go for a 3 year deal? Rex has to have one of the best contract negotiating agents in the game. Wat if this was Rexs scam all along? Talk big. Fall flat. Get fired take the money retire and run to the next TV channel that will hire me off my personality and promo skills.

3 year deals are very rare for new HCs. Mularkey got one with the Titans (likely didn't have other options so he took it) and it was an outlier. 4 is more of the norm, but 5 are becoming more common. Edited February 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Regardless of the lamenting Rex is staying on. Is he the long term answer as a HC? Not in my eyes. I'm hoping that Whaley has a good draft and makes some sound mid-range free agent pickups and Rex does a better job of adapting to the talent and the players do a better job of adapting to what he is scheming. That's all you can ask for.

 

I like Whaley as a GM. He has made some moves that gives me pause to benefit the short term over the long term, such as the McCoy pickup. His explanation as told on WGR was that he wants the team to get over the non-playoff barrier sooner rather than later. I'm not going to argue against his reasoning. I'm just hoping that the current coaching situation doesn't jeopardize his status as a GM. In my view we have the right ownership and GM in place to accomplish a lot more than has been accomplished in a long time. For me the current coaching situation is a drag on a lot of positive things happening for this franchise.

 

If I'm wrong about my jaundice assessment of the HC I will be more than happy to admit being wrong. But I'm not confident that it will play out that way because Rex is Rex. We got exactly what we hired.

Preach ! Well said as always.

 

I like Whaley too. I've seen talent depleted Bills teams and the last two years he's given his coaches a lot to work with on both sides of the ball. They don't have the experience of winning in the league but the raw talent has been there for the right coaching staff to create the right culture and lead them. Tyrod's presence opens a window to ending the playoff drought and competing like the Bills haven't had in a long time. so it's such a shame to waste any season right now. Rex will either get it together or get lost and either way there are better days ahead.

[Marty McFly]

3 year deals are very rare for new HCs. Mularkey got one with the Titans (likely didn't have other options so he took it) and it was an outlier. 4 is more of the norm, but 5 are becoming more common.

Did not know that. Didnt Tomsula get a 1 year deal at SF? Regardless Rex has no excuses this year got his brother on staff a season with the team and hand in the draft picks. A lot of us are hopin its a prove it or lose it year for em. If he gets the Axe I hope we keep Roman Kromer and Whaley on staff.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Marty McFly