Marty McFly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 My response to the question is simple. If your starting QB has proven themselves, it isn't wise. Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, etc., have all performed at a high level for years. There is absolutely no doubt that they deserve a fair contract based on the services they render for their team. Trying to apply that logic to Tyrod is a joke. He's started one season and had some decent numbers, no doubt. But, when the team has NEEDED him to drive the offense down the field late in many games, he's been unable to do it. He has not shown that he can be that "clutch" guy that you can count on at the ends of games. Overall, his numbers look good, but his inability to lead the comeback says that he deserves another year starting to show that he can get over the hump. Definitely NOT a new deal, 1 year after he signed a 3 year deal. Im Team Tyrod but also agree another 3/4s of a season has to be seen with improvement on converting 3rd down (as long as penalties dont put us in 3rd n 15 all the time), and the 2 minute drill, clutch drives before OBD should fork over a heavy contract. The league is so starved for QBs even if he stays the same and doesnt improve(which i highly doubt), someones gonna sign him away in FA, easy. Actually pretty funny that TTT is still taking this stance How many games did he actually miss now Go take a look and see how many games franchise QBs miss now pay attention Seriously people act like proven franchise QBs or reg starting QBs dont miss games or get hurt. Even the guy who never gets hurt Flacco went down this year with an ACL. If he was prone to miss games like harvin or goodwin i would get it but, the facts dont show that. TT will be good if we keep our left side line and upgrade RT while staying healthy.
thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 This is the way to go. TT was worth 10M this year, they paid him what? 2M, so 8M in the bank, they pay him another what $2M next year and he goes lights out, he was worth $15m, so your bank is now over $20m. As Bandit says, you transition him at 19m (maybe 5m more than worth, now we're down to $15m in teh bank) , then match at $15-20m any other offer or extend him mid season; you're ahead of the game money wise for the best parts of his career. Net net, if he plays well, he's not going anywhere, and financially it will have worked out to the Bills. If he sucks next year, its see ya later or he signs for much less or this years drafted QB steps in (or maybe EJ, bc he ain't goin anywhere either. Russell Wilson's math is similar. Seattle grossly underpaid him for 3 years and is now grossly overpaying him (sort of) for 3 years, it all works out, as long as you don't fire your $$ gun until you are sure this is the guy.... Correct.
12Kachy Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Let's pay him now so can "fitz" us. Yes, pay him 20mm a year. It really worked good for us when we did that with F$tzmoney.
KollegeStudnet Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 He plays consistent and leads this team into the playoffs in 2016....then 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰
Marty McFly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 He played at a high level, but do you really think he was a "closer". In my mind, that's what we need to start seeing from him. I also wouldn't mind seeing more intermediate passing routes and getting rid of the ball quicker. Too many sacks from indecisiveness. He threw a lot of intermediate throws with spot on accuracy during the pre-season, especially the 2nd game that made me say thats who i want starting for our team this year, and the coaches saw it too. IDK if it was play design during the season but he didnt throw a lot in the middle, there were a few each game people forget tho, like 2 of the clay TDs, the one Goodwin tried to run halfway across the field before he got hurt, etc....lets not assume its on TT unless you have the all-22 gifs and pics to back it up. Sometimes its play design sometimes its player decision. Only the all-22 can really catch which is which.
Peter Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I love TT and hope he is the guy. Nevertheless, he has started just 14 games for the Bills. I think it is a bit premature for spotrac or anyone else to be talking about $19 million per year contracts. I would love to know whether he can do what he did on a consistent basis going forward. If he and his agent were willing, I have no issue with extending him and giving him a contract that protects both TT and the Bills so we do not end up in cap hell because we were premature in paying him elite QB money. It takes two to tango though.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 Yes, pay him 20mm a year. It really worked good for us when we did that with F$tzmoney. Fitz got more like $9.9MM/yr, but whatever. Let your imagination run free.
Mister Defense Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 No, it is a horrible idea, as it undermines Taylor's loyalty to the team and makes it more likely that he goes for the bigger money someone else will pay him next year. And it is especially troublesome considering how Whaley opens the vault for ridiculous contracts for much lesser players, and for players much less important to team, such as Clay. The Bills need to get something done soon, cannot wait until next year, as Taylor is the real deal, the hope for the future. If the Bills mess this up...
thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 No, it is a horrible idea, as it undermines Taylor's loyalty to the team and makes it more likely that he goes for the bigger money someone else will pay him next year. And it is especially troublesome considering how Whaley opens the vault for ridiculous contracts for much lesser players, and for players much less important to team, such as Clay. The Bills need to get something done soon, cannot wait until next year, as Taylor is the real deal, the hope for the future. If the Bills mess this up... He can't leave. They would tag him if he played well enough. He would sign the tag, because it's a fully-guaranteed payday in excess of $19M for one year.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 He can't leave. They would tag him if he played well enough. He would sign the tag, because it's a fully-guaranteed payday in excess of $19M for one year. He is certainly not going anywhere unless the Bills decide that they don't want him.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Considering you and your fellow troll's track record at predicting the value of players, I wouldn't be so bold. TT in free agency would be a big deal. Starting QBs simply do not enter free agency. But you and your fellow trolls are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Sure they do. Look at a list of QB who started (lets say more than 5 games) this season. Blaine Gabbert, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, and Tyrod Taylor - all starters, all signed through free agency this off-season. One could make an argument for Ryan Fitzpatrick, who signed with the Texans as a FA last year then got traded to the Jets. This year's list of FA starters includes Bradford, Cousins, Osweiler, Fitzpatrick, Daniel, and Stanton. Some of them will slot back to their current team, and some won't. I don't think you actually mean "starting QB". I think you mean "winning QB" or that elusive term, "franchise QB". And there you are right, they seldom become available - but Taylor has yet to prove he's "The Man". He came into the league with the draft day analysis of being an athlete, a runner who can throw, not a true QB as well as "not looking like you want your QB to look" (eg not tall and tank-like), then he disappeared down the bench for 4 years. He did a lot to dispel that rep and prove himself this past year, but not enough that teams he wants to go to are going to be throwing $19M contracts at him. That's a durn lot of money if you aren't sure. Ask Miami and SF.
thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 He is certainly not going anywhere unless the Bills decide that they don't want him. Exactly. No chance they pass up on paying him if he plays well in 2016 (even if it means the tag at first), and no chance he passes up the payday.
GunnerBill Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I am not ready to give him $19m a year. I would be willing to offer him a deal that paid him half that in 2016 and extend him for a year so essentially 2 years at $9m (total $18m first year totally guaranteed, second year half guaranteed) making him a FA at the end of the 2017 season (which basically just ties him in for a third year whereas his current deal he can opt out of the third year) and giving the Bills enough time to be pretty sure before they do the deal - though they could still do in next summer if they think they have seen enough to know. But equally I'd be willing to let him play out this year on $2m and then go all in for a negotiation next off-season. They would be my two options for Tyrod and I'd be happy to go with whichever he picked. I think either way works pretty well for the Bills. Edited January 28, 2016 by GunnerBill
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 He threw a lot of intermediate throws with spot on accuracy during the pre-season, especially the 2nd game that made me say thats who i want starting for our team this year, and the coaches saw it too. IDK if it was play design during the season but he didnt throw a lot in the middle, there were a few each game people forget tho, like 2 of the clay TDs, the one Goodwin tried to run halfway across the field before he got hurt, etc....lets not assume its on TT unless you have the all-22 gifs and pics to back it up. Sometimes its play design sometimes its player decision. Only the all-22 can really catch which is which. McFly, I like to watch both all-22 and the condensed games, in slo-mo where a play interests me. It looks to me as though Roman designs and calls those plays. What I saw pretty regularly is that Taylor would have a place to step up into the pocket for a throwing lane to make an intermediate throw across the middle. Sometimes it looked like "something happened" and the TE or WR who appears to be designated for that role got mugged, or chipped first then tripped going through line. Other times it looks as though the play was there. Instead, Taylor would roll out of the pocket and look far downfield, trying to buy time for his target to get open. Sometimes he'd make the throw, sometimes he'd check down, sometimes he'd scramble, and sometimes he'd get sacked. What I really liked in the last couple games, especially the Jets game, is that Tyrod was stepping up and making those throws. As an aside, this is the misunderstanding (I think) of those who believe Tyrod " needs to be limited to <30 throws in order for us to win". I think that's putting it backwards. I think there are more than 30 pass plays a game being called right now. What needs to happen is that Tyrod needs to execute a few more of them as pass plays, rather than scrambling or taking sacks. When the run game is working, it hasn't mattered if he misses pass plays he could execute, we can get the yards with legs (his or others). When the run game isn't working, a few more of the pass plays that are already being called need to work, and Tyrod needs to "make it so".
Big Turk Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Sal on WGR postures it saying the Bills already think they have taken care of him by allowing him to void a year in his contract. Business wise it makes some sense, they already enabled him to cash in a year earlier, and are not going to get Fitz'd again so to say, although I think Taylor is a better player with a much higher ceiling than Fitz. Business wise, does it make sense to give him money when they are cap strapped? Probably not unless you are OK with them losing pieces they don't need to, to do it.
Marty McFly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) McFly, I like to watch both all-22 and the condensed games, in slo-mo where a play interests me. It looks to me as though Roman designs and calls those plays. What I saw pretty regularly is that Taylor would have a place to step up into the pocket for a throwing lane to make an intermediate throw across the middle. Sometimes it looked like "something happened" and the TE or WR who appears to be designated for that role got mugged, or chipped first then tripped going through line. Other times it looks as though the play was there. Instead, Taylor would roll out of the pocket and look far downfield, trying to buy time for his target to get open. Sometimes he'd make the throw, sometimes he'd check down, sometimes he'd scramble, and sometimes he'd get sacked. What I really liked in the last couple games, especially the Jets game, is that Tyrod was stepping up and making those throws. As an aside, this is the misunderstanding (I think) of those who believe Tyrod " needs to be limited to <30 throws in order for us to win". I think that's putting it backwards. I think there are more than 30 pass plays a game being called right now. What needs to happen is that Tyrod needs to execute a few more of them as pass plays, rather than scrambling or taking sacks. When the run game is working, it hasn't mattered if he misses pass plays he could execute, we can get the yards with legs (his or others). When the run game isn't working, a few more of the pass plays that are already being called need to work, and Tyrod needs to "make it so". Thanks for the fact check. It does look like hes improved throughout the season but, the eye test only showed me he improved on converting the 3rd down pass plays vs the Jets moving the sticks instead of looking for the big play downfield. Youve seen more All-22 tape so your comment on him not being scared to step up into the pocket and make those throws is encouraging for next season. Also to your aside the "limited to x amount of pass plays increase win %" is really skewed because of situational football scenarios. Having a full season and pre-season as a starter for the Bills, Tyrod is going to have to make those plays when the run isnt working next season or he wont be a starter for long in the NFL. Edited January 28, 2016 by Marty McFly
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Really? The Jets are set at QB? How about AZ? Carson Palmer isn't going to p[lay forever, and judging from his playoff performance, the end could be coming sooner. Here's my list of teams that would be interested in TT to varying degrees: Jets, Ravens, Browns, Texans, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, Lions, Bears, Saints, Cards, Rams, Niners. That list has a few ridiculous ones Exactly. No chance they pass up on paying him if he plays well in 2016 (even if it means the tag at first), and no chance he passes up the payday. Yup.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 That list has a few ridiculous ones How much longer do you think Flacco, Brees and Palmer will play? It's not that crazy. You don't think the Ravens would love to have Taylor back?
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 Sure they do. Look at a list of QB who started (lets say more than 5 games) this season. Blaine Gabbert, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, and Tyrod Taylor - all starters, all signed through free agency this off-season. Which on is playing in the Pro Bowl and was named Breakout Player Of The Year?
fridge Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Which on is playing in the Pro Bowl and was named Breakout Player Of The Year? how many wins are those worth?
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