Corp000085 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) RIP http://youtu.be/E8k4D0DMZdw Edited January 28, 2016 by Corp000085
BuffaloBill Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Wow it is simply amazing how time flies... May the crew remain in peaceful rest....
Chef Jim Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Wow. Thirty years ago. I watched it live. I was physically sick after seeing that and almost couldn't go to work.
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I was stunned that this could happen and also sicken. It seemed to take the beauty and and magnificence out of space travel. RIP crew.
eball Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I was sitting in study hall at school with friends watching it live...it was surreal. We had a teacher who had decorated his classroom with shuttle paraphernalia and had assigned projects based on the mission -- he was just crushed.
DC Tom Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 "Obviously a major malfunction." If that wasn't a serious understatement... I still get chills when I hear "Roger, go with throttle-up."
Beerball Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I still get chills when I hear "Roger, go with throttle-up." Me too. Was driving with my wife on a NAS when it happened, won't ever forget.
dpberr Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I read whatever I could on the Challenger and Columbia incidents back when the program was active. I don't call them accidents because NASA's hubris and laziness contributed to both losses of ship and crew. With Challenger, they knew about the fragility of the O-rings in cold temperatures well before January 1986. NASA nearly lost Discovery in 1985 to the same O-ring defect. With Columbia, they knew the wing was hit but didn't bother to send the crew out to do an emergency investigation. Hell they didn't even tell them it was possible the wing was compromised. Edited January 28, 2016 by dpberr
Chef Jim Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 "Obviously a major malfunction." If that wasn't a serious understatement... I still get chills when I hear "Roger, go with throttle-up." I freak out every time I punch the gas in my car. Well not really...........
DC Tom Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I read whatever I could on the Challenger and Columbia incidents back when the program was active. I don't call them accidents because NASA's hubris and laziness contributed to both losses of ship and crew. With Challenger, they knew about the fragility of the O-rings in cold temperatures well before January 1986. NASA nearly lost Discovery in 1985 to the same O-ring defect. With Columbia, they knew the wing was hit but didn't bother to send the crew out to do an emergency investigation. Hell they didn't even tell them it was possible the wing was compromised. With Columbia, they arguably weren't wrong, since there was just about nothing they could do if the heat shield were compromised. Challenger was simply the triumph of bureaucracy over engineering. It wasn't hubris and laziness so much as the incredible pressure to keep to the unrealistic launch schedule, doubled on that particular mission by White House pressure concerning the "Teacher in Space" program. NASA bureaucrats ended up using wildly optimistic (i.e. "flawed") risk analysis to override the engineers' judgement and advice, in order to keep the program "on goal" and budgets up. Not the first time it's happened, not the last either. Reality has a nasty habit of kicking the government's pollyannaish hopefulness right in the nuts.
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 With Columbia, they arguably weren't wrong, since there was just about nothing they could do if the heat shield were compromised. Challenger was simply the triumph of bureaucracy over engineering. It wasn't hubris and laziness so much as the incredible pressure to keep to the unrealistic launch schedule, doubled on that particular mission by White House pressure concerning the "Teacher in Space" program. NASA bureaucrats ended up using wildly optimistic (i.e. "flawed") risk analysis to override the engineers' judgement and advice, in order to keep the program "on goal" and budgets up. Not the first time it's happened, not the last either. Reality has a nasty habit of kicking the government's pollyannaish hopefulness right in the nuts. They knew that those tiles could fail and didn't have a repair kit. After Columbia they packed it. I honestly don't know if that would have been enough to save the ship. As far as Challenger goes couldn't agree more!
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-challenger-24-hours-pre-launch-debate-20160128-htmlstory.html
DC Tom Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 They knew that those tiles could fail and didn't have a repair kit. After Columbia they packed it. I honestly don't know if that would have been enough to save the ship. As far as Challenger goes couldn't agree more! After Columbia they invented it. There wasn't even a concept of an in-orbit repair, because there wasn't a concept that the leading C-C panel could be compromised from the impact of spray foam from the EFT. Not to mention that repairing a heat-resistant leading edge panel in space is absolutely insane (the repair kit was a panacea, much like packing parachutes in the cabin after Challenger.) There's plenty to criticize about the Shuttle program. Not providing for orbital repairs for a vehicle that had a billion-dollar turnaround-cost isn't one of them. Space travel is simply risky, and it's impossible to mitigate all the risk.
Beerball Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself
dpberr Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 For anyone interested, here is the full report on the two scenarios for Columbia rescue. It's interesting reading. http://history.nasa.gov/columbia/Troxell/Columbia%20Web%20Site/CAIB/CAIB%20Website/CAIB%20Report/Volume%202/part13.pdf The unfortunate thing about either scenario is that the investigation of the wing would have been doable and the shuttle could have remained in space for another two weeks. Columbia had just enough EVAs and had two experienced astronauts to go out and take a look. For me, the lack of situation awareness by NASA by not investigating the foam hit turned the mission into a suicide mission.
eball Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself That poor man. In a way he had it worst of all. The astronauts' lives ended that day; he's had to live with it for three decades. Such a shame that he still feels responsible after pleading with them to delay the launch.
Beerball Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 That poor man. In a way he had it worst of all. The astronauts' lives ended that day; he's had to live with it for three decades. Such a shame that he still feels responsible after pleading with them to delay the launch. Yeah...really a sad situation for him.
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