Chandler#81 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 It's always tough to say that one person loses you a game, or one play loses you a game, or that a game comes down to one play because every play affects the game. But you do look for your veterans to make a big time play when you need it, and when it's a one on one match-up, it's easy to get pissed about our guys losing that, especially vets like Graham, or Mario getting abused by a TE. Positive one on one play from the year though: Darby's tackle on Marshall on 4th and two. What seems to get lost in the shuffle are great plays to break up a pass on 3rd down or tackle a runner short of the sticks on 3rd down that force punts throughout the game. These plays get no notoriety. Miss these tackles/breakups, we'll run him out of the League. Anyway, IMO, DB is our least concern this offseason -even if we do part ways with Meeks or other sub-subs.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) What seems to get lost in the shuffle are great plays to break up a pass on 3rd down or tackle a runner short of the sticks on 3rd down that force punts throughout the game. These plays get no notoriety. Miss these tackles/breakups, we'll run him out of the League. Anyway, IMO, DB is our least concern this offseason -even if we do part ways with Meeks or other sub-subs. That's exactly what I was trying to say. People seem to see one big play/game and form their opinion of the player based on that, and not the overall quality and body of work. Whether it be Rambo's 3 TO day and ignoring all of his missed tackles...or Graham's missed tackle on White, forgetting about all of the great tackles he made consistently all season long. I think it's much easier to do this on a position like safety, when they have good coverage you don't them because the camera is not focused on them. Many fans only notice them when they are involved in a big play, good or bad. Edited January 27, 2016 by Turbosrrgood
Luxy312 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Williams v. Rambo is a good problem to have. None the less, neither guy has been able to be a solid producer for an entire season without some type of injury stealing games. We just can't have that be a regular thing. I wouldn't mind if the Bills went after a safety in the second round of the draft this Spring.
thebandit27 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 That's exactly what I was trying to say. People seem to see one big play/game and form their opinion of the player based on that, and not the overall quality and body of work. Whether it be Rambo's 3 TO day and ignoring all of his missed tackles...or Graham's missed tackle on White, forgetting about all of the great tackles he made consistently all season long. I think it's much easier to do this on a position like safety, when they have good coverage you don't them because the camera is not focused on them. Many fans only notice them when they are involved in a big play, good or bad. Personally, I don't think either Graham or Rambo are good enough to play every down at safety in Rex's D.
billykaykay Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 That's usually the difference between winning and losing, and it sure was in the Bills case. He's a DB. Almost by definition, DB's sometimes get beat.
Webster Guy Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I think Graham underachieved in all aspects of Safety play last season. I remember him missing several key tackles in run support beyond his obvious struggles in pass coverage as evidenced by the JAX and PHI games. I would definitely like to see an upgrade at the position to partner with AW. Yup. Graham looked too slow. I think he will grade out poorly when they do the season ending analysis. Corey is a talented dude but if you lose step as a dback you're a liability.
Overseas Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Rambo was a playmaker for us down the stretch last season. Interceptions, forced fumbles, and he is one of those guys who just loves to hit people. Now that Whaley has come out and said that AW is 100% I wonder what the plan is. I, for one, hope we move AW back to FS and keep Rambo at SS if we don't add anyone for the positions in the offseason. This move leaves Graham coming off the bench in some capacity, but after his performance this past year I don't mind that. Let him be a the 4th or 5th CB. Granted, this is all assuming that AW can continue his career once the pads start flying around. What say you TSW? Platoon Rambo, AW and Graham at safety. Dump DW now! Start Gilmore and Darby at CB, McFumbles as NB, Robey as DB. Secondary isn't really a concern for me. LB is a concern and is the pass rush.
Manther Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I like Rambo as a depth safety and hope they re-sign him, but don't think he's starting caliber. He does make plays, but he also makes too many mistakes to be a solid starter.I think he will continue to get better!
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I like Rambo as a depth safety and hope they re-sign him, but don't think he's starting caliber. He does make plays, but he also makes too many mistakes to be a solid starter.Got to agree. For ever big hit that may cause a turnover there are blown coverages and poor angles on tackles.
Manther Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 What are your thoughts about McKelvin, who went public saying he was open to taking a pay cut and open to playing Safety? I would prefer to keep Graham over McKelvin. I think both would take a pay cut.
Marty McFly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Platoon Rambo, AW and Graham at safety. Dump DW now! Start Gilmore and Darby at CB, McFumbles as NB, Robey as DB. Secondary isn't really a concern for me. LB is a concern and is the pass rush. DB isnt a concern but we def need a TRUE Saftey on this team, not a make shift one like Mcfumbles or Graham. and I think Graham is a good vet we should keep for depth leadership experience etc. Rambo is a great Depth player. DW is a waste of $$ and AW is in football inury limbo. LB and DE/NT are much bigger holes to fill this off season so I agree with you mostly.
Manther Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I am not hearing many people clamor for Duke or Meeks. Wonder if we can finally pull the plug on those guys. I think Meeks for sure. Duke probably is done too.I agree with this. And, IMO, he's the most versatile player in our D backfield. He proved that when he transitioned to S from CB the year prior, and lead our team in tackles. How do you bag on the guy who was our best tackler? I agree. Graham is an asset. I could see it working for him and us for a pay cut or restructure.
RussellDopeland Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 It's odd to hear so many trashing Graham. Having three quality safeties is an asset for any defense in the league. If (a BIG if) Williams is able to play a full year next season, having Rambo and Graham along side AW would be an ideal situation. And for those that think Duke Williams should be jettisoned- he may be a liability at safety, but his special teams play is important, especially given the health-status of Easley, and the likely departures of Brooks and Dixon. Duke has played well on ST. And I hope that Aaron Williams is healthy, plays well, and shuts his big mouth.
Captain_Quint Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I am not hearing many people clamor for Duke or Meeks. Wonder if we can finally pull the plug on those guys. Hard to believe that someone looked at those two and thought it was a good idea to draft them together. They've underperformed consistently, every chance they got. Fitting that theyll both be flushed together, too.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I think Aaron's return spells doom for Corey Graham. That's a shame given that he'd finally have a chance to be coached by his buddy Ed Reed. He played fine as a run defender, but he was a liability in pass coverage. I personally think that the plan will be to move forward with Aaron and a draft pick, with Rambo coming off the bench as the 3rd safety. Despite all the assurances coming out of OBD I still doubt AW makes it out of preseason. They would be foolish to make any moves under the impression that he is ever going to play in an NFL game again.
folz Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I'm in the camp that can't understand the posters saying we need to upgrade Corey Graham. Guys, he had a monster year... 127 tackles, 1 sack, 6 passes defended, 2 INTs, 2 FRs, and a TD He had the second most tackles of all safeties in the NFL AND he had the 8th most tackles in the entire NFL (all positions). More tackles than all NFL players except for 6 LBs and one other Safety! He and Manny were the defensive MVPs down the stretch of the season. You aren't missing too many tackles as a Free Safety if you have 127 on the year. And maybe some of the problems in the passing game that people talk about was more due to the communication issues that plagued the secondary early in the season in Rex's system and with Aaron going down (playing with younger and/or less experienced guys). Not saying he was perfect, no one is, but no upgrade needed, thank you very much. Corey Graham is a hometown baller!
thebandit27 Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I'm in the camp that can't understand the posters saying we need to upgrade Corey Graham. Guys, he had a monster year... 127 tackles, 1 sack, 6 passes defended, 2 INTs, 2 FRs, and a TD He had the second most tackles of all safeties in the NFL AND he had the 8th most tackles in the entire NFL (all positions). More tackles than all NFL players except for 6 LBs and one other Safety! He and Manny were the defensive MVPs down the stretch of the season. You aren't missing too many tackles as a Free Safety if you have 127 on the year. And maybe some of the problems in the passing game that people talk about was more due to the communication issues that plagued the secondary early in the season in Rex's system and with Aaron going down (playing with younger and/or less experienced guys). Not saying he was perfect, no one is, but no upgrade needed, thank you very much. Corey Graham is a hometown baller! He was good in run support, I agree. The fact that he had that many tackles speaks far more, IMO, to the inability of the LBs to make plays close to the LOS. He was not good in coverage...a near liability actually. He was responsible for the game-winning TDs against Jacksonville and Philadelphia, as well as a critical score against the Jets (to Eric Decker to cut the lead to a single score). He was downright atrocious against Washington. I like Corey Graham; he's a local kid that can play. He's not good enough in coverage to perform the way that Rex wants his safeties to play. He probably could've been fine in Schwartz's defense when the pass rush was among the best the NFL has ever seen. In this defense, he's a weak link in the pass defense. Being better than Rambo isn't good enough.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Despite all the assurances coming out of OBD I still doubt AW makes it out of preseason. They would be foolish to make any moves under the impression that he is ever going to play in an NFL game again. This, unfortunately. He's a good player, and his return should be welcomed, but it would be foolish to count on it lasting through the season. I'm in the camp that can't understand the posters saying we need to upgrade Corey Graham. Guys, he had a monster year... 127 tackles, 1 sack, 6 passes defended, 2 INTs, 2 FRs, and a TD He had the second most tackles of all safeties in the NFL AND he had the 8th most tackles in the entire NFL (all positions). More tackles than all NFL players except for 6 LBs and one other Safety! He and Manny were the defensive MVPs down the stretch of the season. You aren't missing too many tackles as a Free Safety if you have 127 on the year. And maybe some of the problems in the passing game that people talk about was more due to the communication issues that plagued the secondary early in the season in Rex's system and with Aaron going down (playing with younger and/or less experienced guys). Not saying he was perfect, no one is, but no upgrade needed, thank you very much. Corey Graham is a hometown baller! It's actually a bad sign when a safety is leading the league in tackles. It means the LB aren't getting it done. How were his coverage skills, though? Rex's system is very demanding of the CB and safeties. Historically, he needs at least one all-star at each position to get it done, and at least one football-Mensah type to get everyone in position. How are Corey's smarts? He can ball, but he's no all-star.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Platoon Rambo, AW and Graham at safety. Dump DW now! Start Gilmore and Darby at CB, McFumbles as NB, Robey as DB. Secondary isn't really a concern for me. LB is a concern and is the pass rush. Leo's probably gone. All of our safeties minus meeks/duke were hurt in some way last year, but there's also room for improvement. I think we'll add someone, but I doubt its flashy. Also wouldn't be surprised to see a big corner drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round. Gilmore may command a huge pay day and we may not be able to pony up. Edited January 29, 2016 by dneveu
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